Posts by AddaGirl

48

It is becoming a cult.

by Lex Talionis in

i am a jehovahs witness.

my family are all witnesses.

i am convinced it is not the religion it once was.

As an almost former bible study student, I did a lot of research into the Witnesses. The cult aspect of it I also researched. The BITE Method is a simple way to test if a group is engaged in persuasvie co-oersion.

Behavioral Control-

Regulation of individuals physical reality, (what clothes, what hair styles)
Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals
Individualism discouraged; "group think" prevails
Rigid rules and regulations
Need for obedience and dependency

Information Control-

Use of deception (holding back info or distorting it)
Access to non cult sources of information discouraged
Compartmentalization of information: Insider vs Outsider doctrines, information varies at different levels, info not freely accessible, leadership decides who knows what and when
Spying and reporting on other members
Extensive use of cult generated information: newsletters, magazines, and other along with misquotations, statements taken out of context from non cult sources
Confession

Thought Control-

Need to internalize the group's doctrine as truth: black & white thinking, good vs evil, us vs them
Loaded language: "special words" that constrict rather than expand understanding, reduce complexities of understanding to trite or "buzz words"
Only good and proper thoughts are encouraged
No critical questions about leader, doctrine or policy seen as legitimate
No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good or useful.

Emotional Control-

Make the person feel if there are ever any problems, its their fault
Excessive use of guilt
Excessive use of fear--of thinking independently, of being shunned, of disapproval, of losing one's salvation
Phobia indoctrination-the person under mind control cannot visualize a positive fulfilled future without being in the group

Do the Witnesses qualify? They most certainly do. At this point, the only reason I have contact with them is to try and get one, only one, to think about what they are actually being taught. I have done a chronology of the kings of Judah and Israel straight from the Bible which without a doubt disproves 607 BCE therefore nullifying 1914. The 70 years was my main concern. It is not 607 BCE-537 BCE as the witnesses teach. It is 609 BCE-539 BCE (servitude to Babylon) It is also 586 BCE-516 BCE (the devastation of Jerusalem-temple destruction to temple completion). I am trying to get one active witness to at least consider that the Bible does not tell a lie, that obedience to one who is telling the lie is not the way to salvation, and that the truth comes from only inspired writers of God in the Bible. The link is posted under the Bible group........but if anyone here would like to take a look it or might find some info useful in their own quest, the link is located at ChronologyofKings_Scriptures. (I hope this link works right the first time) This is a 27 page chronology done numerically with scripture citation and all the scriptures are included from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. The Bible is sychronized to perfection, historically correct and does not lie.

I'm still searching but I am learning........hopefully I find it one day.

AddaGirl

73

The 70 years of devastation--as revealed by the Bible

by AddaGirl in

watchtower teachings say this period is from 607 bce to 537 bce.

most of the documentation relating to the seventy years indicates that period to be 609 bce to 539 bce, the rule of the babylonian empire.

i wrote to headquarters, because as a bible study student i knew i could ask questions about certain doctrines that those baptized cannot without consequence and some of the information i received from them was very helpful especially when it was used to verify the chronology of the kings of judah and israel through the bible.. the bible says there are actually (2) 70-year periods.. the first being one of servitude to the babylonians of both israel & judah from 609 bce to 539 bce.

AddaGirl

The third time was a charm. The link is now working

Adda

73

The 70 years of devastation--as revealed by the Bible

by AddaGirl in

watchtower teachings say this period is from 607 bce to 537 bce.

most of the documentation relating to the seventy years indicates that period to be 609 bce to 539 bce, the rule of the babylonian empire.

i wrote to headquarters, because as a bible study student i knew i could ask questions about certain doctrines that those baptized cannot without consequence and some of the information i received from them was very helpful especially when it was used to verify the chronology of the kings of judah and israel through the bible.. the bible says there are actually (2) 70-year periods.. the first being one of servitude to the babylonians of both israel & judah from 609 bce to 539 bce.

AddaGirl

ChronologyofKings_Scriptures1

http://www.informationonlinecenter.com/ChronologyofKings_Scriptures1

73

The 70 years of devastation--as revealed by the Bible

by AddaGirl in

watchtower teachings say this period is from 607 bce to 537 bce.

most of the documentation relating to the seventy years indicates that period to be 609 bce to 539 bce, the rule of the babylonian empire.

i wrote to headquarters, because as a bible study student i knew i could ask questions about certain doctrines that those baptized cannot without consequence and some of the information i received from them was very helpful especially when it was used to verify the chronology of the kings of judah and israel through the bible.. the bible says there are actually (2) 70-year periods.. the first being one of servitude to the babylonians of both israel & judah from 609 bce to 539 bce.

AddaGirl

http://www.informationonlinecenter.com/KingsofJudah&Israel_Scriptures.pdf.

Let's try it this way...

73

The 70 years of devastation--as revealed by the Bible

by AddaGirl in

watchtower teachings say this period is from 607 bce to 537 bce.

most of the documentation relating to the seventy years indicates that period to be 609 bce to 539 bce, the rule of the babylonian empire.

i wrote to headquarters, because as a bible study student i knew i could ask questions about certain doctrines that those baptized cannot without consequence and some of the information i received from them was very helpful especially when it was used to verify the chronology of the kings of judah and israel through the bible.. the bible says there are actually (2) 70-year periods.. the first being one of servitude to the babylonians of both israel & judah from 609 bce to 539 bce.

AddaGirl

Watchtower teachings say this period is from 607 BCE to 537 BCE. Most of the documentation relating to the seventy years indicates that period to be 609 BCE to 539 BCE, the rule of the Babylonian Empire. I wrote to headquarters, because as a bible study student I knew I could ask questions about certain doctrines that those baptized cannot without consequence and some of the information I received from them was very helpful especially when it was used to verify the chronology of the kings of Judah and Israel through the Bible.

The Bible says there are actually (2) 70-year periods.

The first being one of servitude to the Babylonians of both Israel & Judah from 609 BCE to 539 BCE

The second being the devastation of Jerusalem-temple destruction to temple completion 586 BCE to 516 BCE

I have uploaded a complete Chronology of the Kings of Judah & Israel Done From The Scriptures. I was so excited learning this but when I discussed it with my teacher, the reaction was that I am suppose to be obedient and let Jehovah handle any corrections through the "faithful and discreet slave." As I see it, the Bible is teaching it right the first time. Why learn wrong and have to change or revise? And if 607 BCE, therefore 1914 are nullified, are the Witnesses the ones Jesus chose, as I have been taught? Anyone interested is welcome to take a look.

This chronology is 27 pages long in pdf format and has both a numerical chronology indicating which Bible Scripture was used and the Scriptures, taken from the New World Translation, are included. It was an amazing learning experience that clearly shows just how historically accurate the Bible is. The Bible will be my teacher going forward.

"New Light" should always add to existing knowledge, never replace, according to Charles Taze Russell.

"The province of faith is to apprehend truth. Truth is independent; error is a perversion of truth. To believe a lie never makes it true, but is a fraud on one's self. To believe a truth does not make it true; to disbelieve it cannot destroy it. It is independent of us, but we are dependent on it." Zion Watch Tower February 1880; Province of Faith

Thanks for listening.......any comments are viewed as continuing education in my search to drawer closer to God.

AddaGirl

67

Anyone who joined here in the last 6 months post here

by WT=watchtrouble in

jw
friends

i thought it would be interesting to see just how many people have climbed aboard jwd within the last 6 months.

it will give us an indication on how many people are actually coming away from the borg.. i may not be replying all the time but will pop in every day of so.. lets keep this thread going and use it to welcome new ones.

may i be the first to say welcome.

AddaGirl

Hi, I'm AddaGirl, and as a bible study student, I came here looking for answers this month.

23

I think I just became an unbaptized bible study student apostate

by AddaGirl in

jw
friends

i had some major questions regarding 607 bce which directly affect the doctrine of 1914. my teacher, admitting being weak on history, could not answer my questions.

i started researching and found that the appropriate dates for the "seventy years" were appearing to be 609 bce to 539 bce, the ruling period of babylon.

this meant that everything i was being taught based on 1914 was in effect, a lie.

AddaGirl

I had some major questions regarding 607 BCE which directly affect the Doctrine of 1914. My teacher, admitting being weak on history, could not answer my questions. I started researching and found that the appropriate dates for the "seventy years" were appearing to be 609 BCE to 539 BCE, the ruling period of Babylon. This meant that everything I was being taught based on 1914 was in effect, a lie. I wrote a detailed letter to the Society headquarters, with a cc: to the elders of the congregation I was attending, both service and ministry school asking for details on 607 BCE which is neither backed historically or biblically and called my teacher saying I would not be at service until I had some real good answers. I also sent my teacher a copy of the letter written. An elder came to my house and I showed him what information I had already. He also admitted being weak in the history and said to continue researching as the Society would appreciate the effort.

Well, I did a chronological of the Watchtower dates and found, through their own published information, that the kings of Babylon had a 20 year hole in them. And checking their referenced material, in particular, Antiquities of the Jews X, also found the same 20 year difference in the total number of years between the fall of Israel to the Assyrians to the fall of Babylon .

Based on these two findings, I adjusted the dates of the kings to remove the undefined 20 years between the last two kings of Babylon, Labashi-Marduk and Nabonidus, which by the way aligned them to historians dates. Then referring to all the Scripture that the Society used, applied the new dates and it fit Scripture like a glove. I found that most of the arguments they made, especially in the Appendix to Chapter 14 of Kingdom Come were tommyrot and not necessary if the dates were properly reflected.

I called my teacher to talk to her about my findings. Not only did she not call back, she returned my letter, unopened.

I called the elder that had come to my house and encouraged me to continue to set up some time to go over my findings. Again, no call back.

So far, and it has only been a little over a week, I have heard nothing from Society headquarters, but the lack of return phone calls tells me that maybe the congregation has heard something.

I really did not think a bible study student could be classified "apostate" but now I am beginning to wonder. Somehow I think I am going to get the "heart not in the right condition" answer because, I was looking for proof of the truth--questioning the Organization.

What I did learn, which is of most importance, is that I can read, research and understand the Bible without the Watchtower doing the interpretation for me. I can use their material for alot of the Scripture meaning, back out all the doctrine tommyrot and learn the true meaning that Jehovah wants for us all. If that means I am an "apostate" to the congregation, so be it.

Thanks for listening,

AddaGirl

48

Bible Study Student With A Ton of Questions

by AddaGirl in

jw
friends

i am both new to this forum and new to the jehovah's witness organization.

i am currently about half way through the 'what does the bible really teach?

" and have been attending both sunday services and ministerial school for 3 months.. my biggest problem is that, being a researcher by nature, "verifying that all things are true," i have also been researching the organization which has stumbled me greatly.

AddaGirl

My God.....I did not expect a response like this.

badboy,

The 1972 info actually came from a course being presented to the UN on how to gather statistics on International organizations. http://www.laetusinpraesens.org/docs/eval72.php Comparative Evaluation of Different Types of International Organization

Table 3 NGOs in order of countries represented shows Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society 207 countries, 1,600,000 members in position #2

Table 5 Overall Ranking of Loading NGOs shows the same name and statistics in position #13

and actually can be found on the same website that lists the 20 NGOs that have been registered by the Jehovah Witnesses http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.gimpelfang.de/cms/index.php%3Fpage%3D1028029630%26f%3D1%26i%3D1787746506&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAdministrative%2BCentre%2Bof%2BJehovah%2527s%2BWitnesses-Russia%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG Religion ist ein Gimelfang. Site has been translated into English

These 2 sites are quite interesting.

Adda

48

Bible Study Student With A Ton of Questions

by AddaGirl in

jw
friends

i am both new to this forum and new to the jehovah's witness organization.

i am currently about half way through the 'what does the bible really teach?

" and have been attending both sunday services and ministerial school for 3 months.. my biggest problem is that, being a researcher by nature, "verifying that all things are true," i have also been researching the organization which has stumbled me greatly.

AddaGirl

Boy, I didn't expect responses so quickly. I have the UN post of March 2004. Thank You.

I had a terrible feeling when I read "1914 and 'This Generation'" in Crisis of Conscience. (I only printed out the one chapter) I was believing that as you got smarter scriptually, things would change, the "new light" as it is said. I didn't have a problem with that pholosphy until in the "1914" chapter. Aside from their philosophy definately sounding "not inspired by God," there was a sentence that read on page 266 "But if the phrase 'this generation' could be unlinked from 1914 and be applied to some future period of unknown date, then the passage of time, the arrival of the third millenium in the year 2000, and even the approach of the year 2014, might not prove too difficult to rationalize, particularly with a membership trained to accept whatever the 'faithful and discreet slave class' and its Governing body may offer them."

That really did not set well. Are we suppose to not use our minds? To blindly follow a group of men? My lessons have taught me to trust in Jehovah and in the ransom sacrifice of his beloved Son, Jesus Christ, give whole hearted and whole souled to Jehovah, not to men.

Also in that chapter, the date that Babylon took over Jeruselem, 587 BCE, confirmed with 5 different history books and encyclopedias, changes things dramatically. I did ask about the date. That is suppose to be in this weeks lesson.

Are viewpoints like these what get you disfellowshipped? Are questions really not allowed? Jehovah told Habakkuk differently. They'll throw me out before I even get in. Do any of you think scriptually there is a better teacher though?

48

Bible Study Student With A Ton of Questions

by AddaGirl in

jw
friends

i am both new to this forum and new to the jehovah's witness organization.

i am currently about half way through the 'what does the bible really teach?

" and have been attending both sunday services and ministerial school for 3 months.. my biggest problem is that, being a researcher by nature, "verifying that all things are true," i have also been researching the organization which has stumbled me greatly.

AddaGirl

Hi All,

I am both new to this forum and new to the Jehovah's Witness Organization. I am currently about half way through the 'What Does The Bible Really Teach?" and have been attending both Sunday Services and Ministerial School for 3 months.

My biggest problem is that, being a researcher by nature, "verifying that all things are true," I have also been researching the Organization which has stumbled me greatly. I am aware and have read the Guardian expose of the Witnesses dated October 8, 2001, http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,4272231-103690,00.html, the followup dated October 15, 2001, Paul Gillies reply of October 22, 2001 and the letter sent out to the congregations should anyone inquire dated November 1, 2001. http://www.randytv.com/secret/fordecades.htm

Coming forward, I have found UN involvement with 20 sister related NGOs as current as Sept-Oct 2007 which indicates that there is still UN activity and have found evidence that there association as an NGO dates back to 1972. If I am understanding the statutes right, the NGO option was not available until 1968. Everything presented or in archive at the UN is being done for an excellent reason--remove religious persecution, make gov'ts aware of the mistreatment of the Witnesses, and allow religious teaching in areas where banned.

When I inquired to my teacher the things I was finding, she would not look at them, reiterited that I should not have gone looking on the internet for information, that it is all apostate and I should trust in the teachings of the Bible and Watchtower. When I got real upset with her for passing my concerns off she has now brought another book over to my lessons that talk about Satan being involved in every organization, the Witnesses included. I should clarify here that when I first inquired about the UN involvement, 2 teachers, both long-timers in the truth denied that it existed. And as of last night, my husband started Bible classes, expressed his concern for me, over the info I was finding and was also told there was no UN involvement.

Now that I have vented, my question is Why?? Why do they keep information from their members? Why do they lie about it and try to cover it up? If they are beating Satan at his own game using his instruments, the UN, to be able to proclaim the good news world wide, why do they feel they have to hide it? When is it ever right for a teacher to lie, knowing or unknowing, to their student?

Thanks for listening. Any insight is greatly appreciated.