Posts by gravedancer

163

Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

by Francois in

jw
friends

there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

gravedancer

Frank,

The gist of Behe's argument lies in therm "irreducible complexity". Essentially what he tried to do was look at the fact that by means of evolution things evolved from the simplest possible organisms to what we perceive as our living world today. Then he started to point out what he called irreducibly complex systems. In so doing he is trying to show that if an "end result" as we now know it cannot be reduced back to simple organisms then this would argue for a designer/creator.

He does a pretty good job at arguing his point - raises some interesting theories and brings a fresh perspective. However, some have written articles to debunk his arguments.

Here are some links for you to research:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe/review.html

http://udel.edu/~mcdonald/mousetrap.html

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe.html

http://americanscientist.org/bookshelf/Leads97/Darwin97-09.html

http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/DI/clot/Clotting.html (interesting thoughts from Ken Miller in his book "Finding Darwin's God") Do a search on Kenneth Miller..his work is very interesting. Here is the final chapter from the Miller's book you might enjoy it Frank: http://www.brown.edu/Administration/Brown_Alumni_Magazine/00/11-99/features/darwin.html

163

Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

by Francois in

jw
friends

there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

gravedancer

Wish Amazing would jump in soon as I know he was a fan of "Darwin's Black Box" from Michael Behe. In the book Behe advocates the possibility of God. I know that there have been counterpoints raised against the work also.

Have you read the book, Frank?

163

Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

by Francois in

jw
friends

there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

gravedancer

In a recent statement to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II lent the authority of the Roman Catholic Church to the theory of evolution, saying that ". . . fresh knowledge leads to recognition of the theory of evolution as more than just a hypothesis."

Further remarks seem to indicate that the Pope was espousing "theistic evolution," the theory.

What is interesting is WHY the Catholic church has felt/seen the need to adjust its teaching and adopt Theistic Evolution (which is being argued in favor of in this thread). Did they have a debate such as this one?

Talkorigins has hoisted similar threads such as this one. An example can be found at http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/feedback/mar99.html

32

With Whom Has God Been Patient

by comforter in

jw
friends

god has been patient with evil in the world since the days of adam and eve.

his day is not tarrying but is right on schedule.

god, however, is presently showing patience and self-control, not only with the world of unbelievers but also with the congregation of his faithful witnesses.

gravedancer

Heathen,

I know its another game of mind-control. And they will even cite scriptural precedent as to when the Israelites were conquering the nations around them and how God in his beautiful love made the Israelites destroy the Men, Women, Children and Animals and the one time when they did not destroy the Women, Children and Animals they were punished by their wonderful God.

They also have other twisted scripural "proof" (I use that word very loosely) that the sins of the parents are held over the kids.... It DOES work on the majority of dubs. I have friends in the local congreagation who even now still say they have to keep going for their kids sake.

GD

44

Follow up on KJV

by gravedancer in

jw
friends

i lifted this from the "other" board.. you say we will never know the answer?

i have the answer.

my sister, who met, and liked farkel, was so turned off by ***(the fighting and the picture of one poster's penis) she is going back to the hall.

gravedancer

Simon,

You have an interesting challenge Simon and for the most part you do a great job IMO.

Perhaps I dwell on the negative....that is your interperetation. Perhaps you are seeing that once one establishes guidelines that it is tough for all of them to be enforced or that they only cover selected offenses and you cannot dictate common sense and decency.

Last week sure I was pissed off with the board (so lets say it was "dwelling on the negative"). While things like porn etc are obviously out of line you let things go unchecked (and you shared in those threads - while not as actively as the authors I admit) that were very offensive to all of the American contingent on here. So I called you on it. PersonalIy don't think thats dwelling on the negative....but if you do thats your choice. Why didnt I email it to you? Because LOTS of people were offended by it....we even saw others (regular folk who don't try to "stir things up") leave. The offenders? Still here posting merrily - accounts intact!!

It seems that you have drawn a line at cursing and posting of sexually explicit pics (descriptions too in select cases). Those are easily understood, and yes I have occasionally cursed on here in spite of your ruling.

32

With Whom Has God Been Patient

by comforter in

jw
friends

god has been patient with evil in the world since the days of adam and eve.

his day is not tarrying but is right on schedule.

god, however, is presently showing patience and self-control, not only with the world of unbelievers but also with the congregation of his faithful witnesses.

gravedancer

why are so many here convinced that God is going to kill children

That's based on JW teaching. That is one of the tactics they tried on me...."if you don't want to be in the truth for yourself at least be in it so that Jehovah doesn't kill your kids".

163

Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

by Francois in

jw
friends

there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

gravedancer

Im not sure if this point has been brought up yet, but at what point in the process of evolution does God start to consider the creature that will eventually become man, worthy of an after life?
Will those that are less evolved share the same afterlife with man of today?
Will man of today share in the same afterlife of a future evolution of himself?
The atheist view seems more reasonable.

Great observation. A believer in both evolution and God is almost drawn to conclude in reincarnation and the divine consummation of all life forms (to me as a tree-hugger a very attractive prospect indeed)

On another note:

If one observes the progress being made with regard to genetics one is confronted with some inevitable questions. Without getting too deeply into it lets consider the fact that we have mapped the entire human genome. We know from here it will progress to:

Genetic cures
Human Cloning
Manufacture of Artificial Genes
Creation of life

One's beliefs can steer one to a number of different reactions. For instance a supporter of creation and religion might conclude that we are interfering with creation and Gods purpose. An atheist might have similar conclusions but believe that we are interfering with nature. Another atheist might believe that since evolution is the survival of the fittest and that since evolution is accelerating this is just the next stage in our evolution.

All of this speculation is a great fantasy.....but unfortunately at this time I have to leave it as that.....a fantasy. Perhaps Tinkerbell really is God!!

163

Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

by Francois in

jw
friends

there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

gravedancer

I was the "font offender"...sorry but after Quantums long post, all in large font and all bold...I made a joke.

6o9 is a decent guy, Frank as are you. Let's not spoil the thread by attacking each other....this thread was one of the best in quite a while as long as we centered it to ideas.

44

Follow up on KJV

by gravedancer in

jw
friends

i lifted this from the "other" board.. you say we will never know the answer?

i have the answer.

my sister, who met, and liked farkel, was so turned off by ***(the fighting and the picture of one poster's penis) she is going back to the hall.

gravedancer

Prisca...believe it or not we have more in common on this issue than you think.

87

BILL BOWEN

by crawdad2 in

hi bill............. so...... you have the most qualified victims coming to your site........and you give them to attorneys who sue for only................ $ 50.000?.....................as in the case of heidi meyer............. and she has to go through hell ......"again"......and be ridiculed in court, and made to expose her most private sensitive issues on how she got molested........ for a lousey $50,000?............

bill, are you scratching the gov bodys back or something?

gravedancer

Crawdaddy,

I am Bill's puppet. He sent me with a message: "phuck off"