gravedancer

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Posts by gravedancer

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  163

  Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

  how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

  how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

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  gravedancer

  Eric....I thought the unicorns were blue. I feel so betrayed....
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  163

  Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

  how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

  how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

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  gravedancer

  My standard answer for belief in God is this: "it can't hurt!" I'm not being cute, either. I'm covering my bases

  Farkel, thats a incomplete(I'm not being cute either). Heres why:

  Lets say we take the attitude that "it can't hurt". OK...so we say we will believe in God. Who is he/she? What does that belief mean? What do I have to do to show I believe in this God? What does God expect from me?

  If we cannot answer those basic questions then we might as well NOT believe because our actions and behaviours are then not affected at all by the belief.
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  11

  Need lots of advice on investing a couple grand

  by Cappuccino OC in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the grand is not mine but my mothers.

  she just went through a nasty divorce.

  she left her df pedophile husband.

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  gravedancer

  Be very careful of annuities....thats all I I have to say.

  http://www.jameshoyer.com/problem_annuities.html

  Do yourself and your Mom a favor and find a professional who will provide a balanced portfolio that is diversified in NO LOAD funds.
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  163

  Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

  how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

  how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

  1. 
  2. 
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  gravedancer

  not faith with intelligence

  Frank - you refer to faith with intelligence.....and I know you are trying to get believers to reconcile evolution together with their faith in this thread.

  But I am asking, without being a smart-ass even if it comes across as such. how does one intelligently have faith. Now I am not saying that people with faith are stupid (some of the smartest guys whoever lived had faith) but using intelligence how does one reconcile faith into the equation:

  • What intelligent basis is there for believing in God?
  • If we do believe in God then how do we know what he wants of us and expects of us?
  • How do I find all this out? I know some will give me cute answers like "stop looking so hard" but that won't cut it for me. I cannot just believe because I want to, their needs to be compelling evidence to believe something.

  Alanf and Amazing, if you are reading then please weigh in here with your thoughts too.

  GD
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  15

  Search and Seizure of WTS Pedo-FILES

  by YoursChelbie in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  barbara anderson gave her first hand account that there are many names and details of pedophiles' criminal activities inside wts headquarters.

  many victims have come forward to say that the very pedophiles who victimized them are out on the streets.

  so, what more is needed for the authorities to get a hold of those criminals that the wts is harboring?

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  gravedancer

  Andersen has already shredded them.....
• 
  163

  Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

  how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

  how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  gravedancer

  You made it clear that you believe in God, yet you also believe in evolution. It seems that some posters have ignored this and want to insist that atheism and evolution go hand in hand. Certainly atheists and agnostics believe in the theory of evolution. However, many people like you, believe in evolution as well. It seems to me that some folks don't acknowledge this fact

  Larc,

  Those who feel that one can believe in both have been asked by myself and others in this thread how they reconcile the 2 conflicting beliefs....Francois has partially answered and said he doesn't accept the principle of atonement (one of the big obstacles to believing in both). I have asked then what he establishes as the basis of his beliefs so we can discuss them rationally.

  The same applies in my question to Josephus.

  GD
• 
  163

  Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

  how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

  how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  gravedancer

  Josephus....good counter point: Why cant evolutionists accept God too?

  So if I am to be open minded (I am actually empty minded :-)), therefore I will take you up on your offer and ask you to show me how to accept God and know God while still accepting evolution. How do I find God? Please don't show me the Bible as that is like putting the cart before the horse....first lets prove God exists and then find a way to prove that the Bible is his word.

  I am all ears....and believe it or not (and I know most wont because I am highly critical of believers) I would love to know that there is a loving God out there.....I just can't find him/her. Anyone who can show me this God will be doing me a huge favor.

  GD

  (edited to correct a typo)

  Edited by - gravedancer on 6 July 2002 2:59:12
• 
  163

  Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

  how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

  how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  gravedancer

  Francois - thanks for the gracious reply.

  In my response I will take the presumptuous liberty of generalizing and labeling. I often find it tough not to offend those whom I shall label "believers"

  From your response, however, I believe you have your own answer to the original post. The answer comes back to what a "believer" believes. While I am being so presumptuous lets continue labeling.....We get "conventional believers" (CBs) and "non-conventional believers" (NCBs).

  CBs follow generally follow the Bible. The structure of their belief system generally goes: God created man, man sinned, God atoned man by sending Jesus to die for man. They believe the primary purpose of the Bible is to lead/guide them to God through Jesus. Therefore they cannot accept something like evolution since it cannot be reconciled to the flow of the teaching. It flies in the face of creation so the whole logic chain is disrupted and becomes contradictory.

  As far as NCBs.they believe in some form of God. I gather that you fall into this category. Before challenging your beliefs, I would ask that you clarify the source of those beliefs if you would be so kind.
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  64

  Monthly Complaint

  by comforter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower has said that those who deviate from the faith only seek to pull down and do not try to build up.

  they have no positive teachings.

  only negative ones.

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  gravedancer

  lmao@RF
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  163

  Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

  how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

  how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  gravedancer

  Francois - good post.

  I know this might not be what you wanted, but I feel as though you asked the wrong question. I feel that the REAL question to ask is what makes people WANT to believe that their is a God? I was chatting with someone online yesterday and we were speaking about how we WANT to believe there is a God. We want to know that there is more to life than the 70 years and we WANT to know that when our loved ones die that somehow we will one day be reunited with them - so we cling to this concept of a higher power.

  I can certainly see the "why". As an atheist I am drawn to the idea that there is more than that which I see around me, however, my mind tells me that I cannot accept that which is irrational. Its a classic heart vs head deal....

  So to your question, my opinion is that people who believe in God have to believe ALL the way. If they allow any of the beliefs contrary, or which they think might be contrary, to the conventional creationist beliefs then somehow their faith will be weakened and their relationship with God will be tarnished. Admitting to something like evolution is something they cannot do and reconcile God's love. If mankind evolved why would there have been a need for Jesus to save man? If mankind had evolved how could they reconcile the concept of sin? ....and on and on till pretty soon the whole Bible is rendered mythical and their faith is destroyed.

  I have been thinking about this lately, since it seems almost impossible to reason with people who have faith (please this is not meant as an insult to those who do have faith).

  I have further thoughts on this which I will possibly write at some point.