gravedancer

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Posts by gravedancer

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  163

  Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

  how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

  how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

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  gravedancer

  Quantum,

  My font is bigger than yours!!
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  32

  With Whom Has God Been Patient

  by comforter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  god has been patient with evil in the world since the days of adam and eve.

  his day is not tarrying but is right on schedule.

  god, however, is presently showing patience and self-control, not only with the world of unbelievers but also with the congregation of his faithful witnesses.

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  gravedancer

  bjc....good luck. If God wanted to "magically" draw people to the WT Org in huge droves he will likely have to make miracles happen. It isn't going to happen because of the message they bring to people...otherwise why are more and more turning away?
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  32

  With Whom Has God Been Patient

  by comforter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  god has been patient with evil in the world since the days of adam and eve.

  his day is not tarrying but is right on schedule.

  god, however, is presently showing patience and self-control, not only with the world of unbelievers but also with the congregation of his faithful witnesses.

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  gravedancer

  By the way you only have one way to escape the logic I just used....

  What is it?

  That Jehovah will not destroy non-witnesses at Armageddon.

  My comeback is a rhetorical question:.....so why be one then?!!!!!
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  32

  With Whom Has God Been Patient

  by comforter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  god has been patient with evil in the world since the days of adam and eve.

  his day is not tarrying but is right on schedule.

  god, however, is presently showing patience and self-control, not only with the world of unbelievers but also with the congregation of his faithful witnesses.

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  gravedancer

  This is an old favorite argument put forth by Witnesses to justify WHY God has not brought Armageddon sooner.

  Well it is flawed and I will show you why.

  Assumptions and facts

  1. JW assumption/interperetation: God is patient and wants everyone to become JW's so he lets the system carry on.
  2. Fact: there are 6 million JW's
  3. Fact: there are 6 billion people on planet earth
  4. Fact: Ratio of JWs to overall poulation equals 1 in 1000. Or phrased another way for every 1000 people on the earth one is a JW.

  Conclusions:

  1. JW Organizational Growth: If the "system of things" carries on for any length of time then the Organization will grow (maybe although it appears to be slowing dramatically).
  2. World Population Growth: If the "system of thing" carries on for any length of time the world population will grow. This occurs by having more babies added to the planet through childbirth - this is a very important point.
  3. So bearing in mind that way the world population is increasing and if the end of the system is indeed close (lets say 5 years - I know its a guess) and the JW ranks manage to swell to 10 million and then Jehovah in his loving kindness brings Armageddon and destroys everyone who is not a baptised witness or the minor child of a baptised witness. AHHH...what about the ratio? If the JW ranks by that time have swollen to 10 million and the raio of JWs to other miscreants is 1 in 1000 that means an additional 4 billion plus children will be destroyed by God because he was patient and loving and did not desire for any to be destroyed.

  See the hole in the teaching yet? Would a loving God remain patient to have 4 million JWs added to the ranks at the expense of 4 billion children? Judging by the way childrens rights are treated with regard to molestation cases I guess it is fair to say that at least JW thinking remains consistent.

  PS - I understand the number for growth used in my argument were just numbers one could pick....but pick any number and the raitio of JWs to "OTHERS" remains fairly constant. The more JWs you get added to the organization...the more kids of the "OTHERS" Jehovah will have to destroy.
• 
  163

  Anti-Evolutionists Wanted !!!!

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is an evolution question bubbling up down the threads a little way, and it minded me to try to really get to the nub of the opposition to the technique.. i would like to pose very serious questions, and i hope they attracts serious, considered responses - once and for all.. why is it impossible, in the minds of anti-evolutionists, that god did indeed create us, the earth, the sun, and everything around us including the entire physical universe, and that evolution was his technique; evolution as a divine technique?

  how do you know, how are you so certain that's not the case?

  how would you explain your opposition to god if he told you personally that, yep, that's the way he did it alright?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  gravedancer

  Frank,

  Thanks for the honest reply. I can totally respect an answer put forth with such candour and not a load of tap dancing around just to stay in a debate. I have more respect for your answer than I do for most of the answers submitted by "regular believers" and I do not doubt your sincerity.

  Perhaps I am at some stage....everyone is always at some stage (it's almost become cliched to say that). As I stated in the past at no pint of my life (even as a kid growing up as a JW) have I ever "felt God". While growing up it became very popular to be "born again" by the Chriistians in my community. I would listen to them and see them and they seemed so emotionally involved with God and Jesus. While we were always taught that we were superior because we had the "truth" I felt so hollow in comparison to the "born-agains" around me. Even if they were worshipping a false God he was so real to them and here I was supposedly worshipping the true God, Jehovah, and I felt absolutely nothing inside. Then I would hear talks and others claiming this deep love for Jehovah and how Jehovah can read the heart and I would just sink....."If he can read my heart I am toast".

  I was once told by an elder that one of the most disrespectful things we can do is to fall asleep while we are praying. OH NO.....I was guilty of that so many times.

  So where is all this drivel about me leading? Heck I don't know....but I have never felt so free - free from guilt, as I did once I read the work of Robert Cialdini and once I understood from his work how cults work (Istrongly encourage everyone to read his book). Then I read the "Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins and I knew that I was an atheist and an evolutionist. Here was someone who could take the argument from Romans 1:20 and turn it on its ear. No longer did I need to believe that "if their is design that there is a designer". This was further confirmed in person when I spoke with Janh and found out that we shared so many views in common (although he had held and understood them for longer so was more articulate with them).

  Janh and I chatted again a couple of days ago and I brought up how the toughest part of being an atheist is the "loss of hope" and the finality one feels at knowing that life is so fragile and there is truly only one chance. If one of my loved ones dies thats it....its over between us. I am still not strong enough to deal with that reality. I still wish I could believe in a paradise and a resurrection but I can not go on any longer feeling like I am deceiving myself. When I was a believer I never felt like I was a believer, there was not emotiuon to it.....and if we profess this deep love for God and he for us there has to be emotional attachment or else it is just a chore.

  Perhaps I just have a lousy imagination. Perhaps I am being too academic about it and requiring too much proof, but if one is to invest in something one needs to understand what one is investing in, otherwise one is speculating and I have the hardest time putting loads of time into an endeavour based on speculation.
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  44

  Follow up on KJV

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i lifted this from the "other" board.. you say we will never know the answer?

  i have the answer.

  my sister, who met, and liked farkel, was so turned off by ***(the fighting and the picture of one poster's penis) she is going back to the hall.

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  gravedancer

  Is it fresh, Fred? Or did you use it already?
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  44

  Follow up on KJV

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i lifted this from the "other" board.. you say we will never know the answer?

  i have the answer.

  my sister, who met, and liked farkel, was so turned off by ***(the fighting and the picture of one poster's penis) she is going back to the hall.

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  gravedancer

  I never posted my opinion...I happen to NOT agree with everything in the post. KJV makes some points which might have merit....others are flat out wrong IMO
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  44

  Follow up on KJV

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i lifted this from the "other" board.. you say we will never know the answer?

  i have the answer.

  my sister, who met, and liked farkel, was so turned off by ***(the fighting and the picture of one poster's penis) she is going back to the hall.

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  gravedancer

  Fred,

  What crime did I commit.....go back and eat your kitty litter!!
• 
  44

  Follow up on KJV

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i lifted this from the "other" board.. you say we will never know the answer?

  i have the answer.

  my sister, who met, and liked farkel, was so turned off by ***(the fighting and the picture of one poster's penis) she is going back to the hall.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  gravedancer

  I lifted this from the "other" board.

  You say we will never know the answer? I have the answer. My sister, who met, and liked Farkel, was so turned off by ***(the fighting and the picture of one poster's penis) she is going back to the Hall. My uncle is upset with me for letting his anonymity "out of the bag", he is paranoid that the brothers will see him on the net and he will be in trouble! This whole thing has got out of hand, and it pisses me off because I have spent hundreds of hours of talking to the both of them about this org. Can't the apostates on the other board get it through their thick heads that witnesses are brainwashed and you need to handle them with "kidd gloves" if you are going to help them to get out of the cult? All that place is to me is a popularity contest, with nutcases telling Simon what to do. Right now I am upset, because this has affected MY family, and some of those prick bastards could care less. Why doesn't Simon disfellowship "You Know"? He comes on the board to just piss people off! How about kicking "Fred Hall" off? My uncle has been very disturbed by the dateline program and then he started reading info about the UN, then all this shit happens! Now he told me"I don't want to hear any of this!". So I hope those hateful pricks over there are happy!
  
  As far posting the disgusting, vile thread, "Do you swallow", I appreciate that you saw my point and that you defended me, but I failed miserably. It didn't work. I believe in freedoms and I don't care what the hell people do with their penises, vaginas, and bungholes...I just don't want to know about it. Simon lets pure vomit be posted on that board and does nothing, as long as the poster who is posting the filth is popular among other posters. Simon is so obvious, he is transparent. Had D8TA, 144,001, Mr. Moe, LDH, slipnslidemaster, Garbagegirl, legsspreadapartallday, alwaysonmyback, and some others on that board posted my post "Do you swallow?", there would have been 3 million replies telling them how couragous they were for posting such a brilliant post,and for asking such a couragous question, and then replying in detail in answer to those sick questions that I asked. Poor Mr. Moe, she thought I was serious and she answered them!!! My nephew is friends with some porno stars up here in the High Desert. He goes to these cage fights with them and has partied with them. He says that they hardly ever talk about sex, they like to talk about real estate, movies, motorcycles, and other things of the sort. So what is up? Are we here to shock the shit out of JW lurkers? I will guarantee you that if I had encountered that kind of filth and those kind of put downs on H20, when I first got on there a year and a half ago as a witness, I would have never returned!

  http://kent.steinhaug.com/forum/showthread.php?s=e7af3e43d3ac983b2947b3dc78e88397&threadid=631
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  40

  Serena Thanks Jehovah!

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just seen her do it, less than a minute ago.

  serina beat her sister venus to win the wimbledon women's tennis championships a moment ago.

  in front of the whole centre court, sue barker asked her for her comments over the microphone system.

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  gravedancer

  She is bad association...look how she dresses....and her Mothers hair....I mean if you were sitting behind her how could you see the conductor of the WT study....its a spiritual distraction!!!