Interesting post at the top of the thread on CT Russell's connections... too bad Blackguard didn't list references. From what I can tell, he accumulated the info from his reading from various sources/sites.
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Someone else on another thread (2001) posted inside this thread, and wrote:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=7385&site=3
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One only has to read the 1913 Convention report to see Russell's involvment with Masonry.
http://www.exjws.net/museum/masonry.htm
After reading this, one has to ask themselves, did Russell bring his Masonic beliefs and his Masonic world view into the Watchtower?
Just look at the Masonic symbols used by Russell on the magazines and books printed in the early stages of the WTBTS.
I agree with you that Russell might have been trying to seduce some Masons. I wonder if there is actually any truth in a few of the books I read that the WT in the early stages was financed by Freemasonry and Zionism. The Bible Students I deal with will gladly tell you that Russell was a Zionist. Of course the BS do not care for me to be on their forums.
Just a few things Russell said from the 1913 Convention report.
"I say to you dear friends, We of the Free and Accepted Order of Masons of the Lord Jesus Christ's Commandery have the very highest standard...
"One of the highest of this order of ours, a thirty-second degree spiritual Mason. I will call him St. Paul. St. Paul in one of his epistles boasted about the kinds of marks he bore...They were marks such as our Savior had, and such as all the high spiritual Masons must have...
"Are you laying aside the works these things that belong to our order of Free and Accepted Masonry? It is the grandest Masonry of all."
Russell refered to Christ as the great Mason and that the Lord's church is a secret order. He said that Jesus was the cheif Mason and that the world did not know him but did slay him. Russell refered to the Great Pyramid as an emblem the Masons use.
Yes, I agree that Russell was using terms as far as a Bible Masonry, but I think it was more than that when you read the evidence and see Russell's involvment.
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END QUOTE.
Others in that thread bashed all of that.
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Another interesting quote from blackguard which I had never heard in all the years here...
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One researcher claims that C.T.Russell's name did appear in the mother Lodge [of FreeMasonry] in Ireland and that this was testified to by several individuals who sighted it there. I don't know if this is true. The difficulty one might have in "proving" a matter is the insistence upon applying the hellenic system of logic. Even the acceptable legal theory of circumstantial evidence is flawed when one considers that a lot of 'felons' get released from prisons annually because other hard evidence later surfaces to clear them of crimes. I would suggest that the semitic axiom has merit,." by their fruits shall ye recognize them". I think if one applies this rule to a situation over a period of time or activity a pattern emerges of what this person or group really represents. In the case of bona fide masons, one should remember that being on a Lodge registry doesn't mean they're part of a world wide conspiracy or hidden agenda any more than the rank and file are privy to the hidden agendas that some executives of the Watcher corporation know about. I propose in the case of the Watcher corporation of looking at the type of fruits it produces and going the next step to see if its roots is responsible for its bad fruitage.
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END QUOTE.
After a few bashings, blackguard added this...
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There seems to be an element in the xjw movement (if it could be defined as such) that are covert WTS apologists or sympatheziers, insistent that certain things aren't so. My point in identifying a difference in hellenic and semitic thinking is that the latter is rather simple: 'If it waddles like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, if it looks like a duck and if it lives in an enclosure full of duckshit, it is in all probability a duck despite its pleas and its apologists to the contrary'. I think the bottom line to these type of discussions is that people are going to believe what they need to believe and no amount of 'evidence' is going to convince them otherwise. And I'm not in the business of needing to convince people. I remember once telling an intelligent young wippersnapper that the ladder he was about to embark had a broken rung and to be careful when he got half-way up; his attitude was because he couldn't see it he wouldn't believe it. When he fell off the ladder his stunned look amused me. (Fortunately he wasn't hurt)
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END QUOTE.
How true, and lol.
And later this...
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The "Watch Tower Roots" is a synopsis of a wealth of information. I once benefitted from others' research when I was exiting and I presume that others might also via my contibution here. The nitty gritty details are pointless. What does scandal accomplish? What did the UN scandal accomplish? What will the Rand-Cam scandal accomplish? And what will the pedophillia scandal accomplish? My dirt will accomplish the same---Very Little! You of all persons seem to be aware of how the Watcher corporation is connected in the secular world. Besides, this presentation is predicated upon a different world view that most participants cannot, and possibly will not, come to grips with. I am not seeking converts to a movement or my point of view. This presentation will make sense to a few individuals only---the penny will drop. This is, and will be, my only post.
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END QUOTE.
Oh boy, once people hear this next name, they will shriek louder re: "conspiracy theories"... This post also by blackguard...
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...it may interest you to know that Lyndon Larouche maybe (underline MAYBE) poised to, directly or indirectly, expose the Watch Tower in his investigative stories surrounding the Moonies and the "Christian Zionist apparatus". Checkout one of the latest stories on larouchepub.com. John Nelson Darby might be the key to start you off on your investigation. This is my last entry---I bid you all farewell. Blackguard
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For the newbies crowd since all of this was from 2001/2002.
abbagail
JoinedPosts by abbagail
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Watch Tower Roots:
by blackguard infascist and the church of.
corporate mammon .
"by their fruits shall ye recognize them": this paleo-semitic thinking, is as every bit an axiomatic statement about evidence collection as the hellenic system so pervasive in western society today.
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abbagail
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abbagail
Outlaw, you have some great smileys. Love the one with the palm tree! ;-)
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Obama, community service, and JWs
by kurtbethel inthis is wonderful!
you see, a jehovah's witness would see their door to door ministry as a community service, offering to teach you how to escape the judgment of armageddon.
so that tax credit turns out to be worth $4000 for 100 hours, which makes the preaching work get paid $40 an hour of your tax money.
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abbagail
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Oh, come now, Abba.
Surely not!
Sylvia
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Who knows what the WT will do about anything. They are "all over the place" these days.
But if your "Oh come now" was re: Obama policies being similar to Hitler, all I can do is share some articles/commentaries/links...
Obama's "Universal" Service Plan - Part 2
Mind Change and Collective Service
http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/db111.html
Obama's "Universal" Service Plan - Part 1
Training a Socialist Army of World Servers
http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/db110.html
"Do You Remember That George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton Also Called For a National Community Service Program Early In Their Presidency?"
President George H.W. Bush called for "volunteerism" in 1990, and Clinton's National Community Service Program of 1993 were based squarely on the Hitler model, just as Barack Obama's Universal Service Plan.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n2326.cfm << Requires subscription, copyrighted article. -
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EXPOSING THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY ONLINE.
by Vinny ini still spend some time here and there exposing the wt society for what it truly is (a man originating, man run, high control religious cult-like religious institution), rather than what they tell people they are (god's appointed channel/organization/people etc).
the facts prove without a doubt that god was never behind any of this:http://www1.tip.nl/%7et661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm.
here is the link to that letter: http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html.
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abbagail
This was a great quote from one of your letters from JWs:
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So when I broke it down to what I actually did still believe out of their teachings, it came down to belief in God, Jesus, the bible and rejection of some obvious man-made teachings. This left me with the basics of Christianity. It became clear to me that I was simply a Christian, not a Jehovah's Witness. There is a freedom in the simplicity of that.
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Amen to the Simplicity and Freedom in Christ!
Great job, Vinny, and great letters! -
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Book study change and Satan/ sorry about the format
by sspo inthis email is circulating among the witnesses....... book study change
this was forward by friends at the guam branch -- ---------------------- from a sister in colombia : i want to share with you important points from our co's visit about the changes that will take effect next year about our book study.
there are four main points about the book study change, i thought were very interesting:
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abbagail
Kingdom MALADIES -- That is PRICELESS! ...even as a former "fan" of the Kingdom orchestrated melodies, lol.
I thought I had heard it all around here, but that is Too Funny. -
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abbagail
Of course not, silly goose... don't cha remember...
"... the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart ..."
hehe.
(from Isaiah 65:17, even tho it doesn't apply to heaven, but nice try anyway, eh?) -
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To Randy Watters
by LovesDubs inwhat happened to the exjw registry you used to have on your site?
the one where we could put ourselves on the list and see if anyone we knew was out too?.
loves.
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abbagail
bttt
I downloaded that list a number of years ago... wouldn't mind seeing an updated version... -
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Is this another double standard?
by seek2find inyesterday my wife left the watchtower out for me to read the lesson which i still do to show that i'm not close minded.
at the end of the article, there was another small article about gods name.
(an mp3 of the article can be found here http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=qryqzrqvnznt) in this article it speaks of a catholic cardinal who gave a sermon where he used the latin spelling of the divine name and said that it was definitely gods name.
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abbagail
That really doesn't make sense, does it? I guess when it comes to their pushing the "Divine Name," they will quote ANYBODY as a backup support, even their most hated enemy, the RCC.
I'm sure they could find supportive quotes from MANY denominations (not just RCC) because it's no big secret... on Christian TV frequently there is mention of the name "Jehovah" when discussing OT texts; and the name is used/sung in many hymns, etc. Do they ever quote from Baptist sources, or Pentecostal sources, etc.?
One of the biggest "lies" of the WT is that THEY are the "only ones" who use "God's name." -
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COURT RULES VATICAN LIABLE for USA PEDO CASES - Surely WT Nervous Over This
by abbagail inon november 25, 2008, the wall street journal law blog and the wsj both posted articles about this... .
sixth circuit: vatican can be sued for sexual abuse .
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/11/25/sixth-circuit-vatican-can-be-sued-for-sexual-abuse/.
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abbagail
Hey, thanks people, for that info on the RCC attorney working for the WT's pedo case(s). Verrrrry interesting. I guess the GB "got word" from the "24 heavenly elders" that the WT is not denominationally-bound when it comes to WT legal matters. ;-)
As far as individual JWs not freaking if they knew their beloved mother org was collaborating w/RCC attorneys, I surely would have been shocked back in the day...
And interesting too, that Baptist info... thanks! -
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Obama, community service, and JWs
by kurtbethel inthis is wonderful!
you see, a jehovah's witness would see their door to door ministry as a community service, offering to teach you how to escape the judgment of armageddon.
so that tax credit turns out to be worth $4000 for 100 hours, which makes the preaching work get paid $40 an hour of your tax money.
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abbagail
The WT already has a history with Hitler [http://www.randytv.com/Hitler/watchtower_hitler.htm ] , so why not with Obama, the "new Hitler"?
Editorial Opinion
Obama embraces socialist remedies, Hitler’s hoopla
by Bob Hoig, Publisher
Midlands Business Journal
July 2008
http://www.mbj.com/Edits/2008Edits/obamaembraces.html
More comparisons via google:
Obama and Hitler similarities, comparisons, etc. etc.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=obama+hitler+comparisons&btnG=Search