You've got to be kidding. You've found nothing better than what they offer? All they offer is lies, false promises and false friendships, lots of coverups and emotional blackmail. It doesn't take much to beat that hand. You are setting yourself up for failure by even considering going back to what you know is a lie. It is your life, but to parrot the questions found at bottom of a cult magazine and underline the answers they will accept from the same rag, are you going to wave your hand to get to quote the answer they want??? Well, the fact that you are here would seem to speak to a more open mind and freer spirit than that demands. You must not be the cyngus from H20; are you? Born in the Truth, was your handle to start with??? No, it can't be. Whomever you are, I wish you a happy life and freedom from the kind of self-hatred that pandering to this cult would tie you too. I'd have to break every mirror in the house if I were to, man, I can't even present a fantasy like that. On another note, By sitting on the back row being shunned and lying to get back in aren't you sending the wrong signal to the wife I hope you love enough to want to free? Whatever you do, I wish you well, but it sure seems like a sick form of self-degradation to me. Don't put yourself through it. You will exit again I imagine, I hope.
Posts by Grunt
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74I'm thinking of applying for reinstatement
by Cygnus inok, here's how it is.. i just finished reading the "dead" thread.
now, listen.
i do not believe in life after death.
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15
Political Compass Test
by Spartacus inthis is a neat little test, there aren't any wrong answers, only what you think, after answering the questionaire it tells you approximately where you stand on political and economic policy.
(numbers below 0 are to the left, numbers above 0 are to the right).
http://www.politicalcompass.org/.
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Grunt
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -1.85Thanks for the link. As usual I found myself in a quandry over some of the questions.
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48
Norwegians: Stick With What You Are Good At.
by Englishman inim totally bewildered that norm, kent and jan appear to have distanced themselves from this site, particularly in view of the many excellent articles that have been written by this trio.. this was norms latest post on kents discussion forum, it sat on site for almost a day before anyone responded:.
the us whore .
these days bush is visited in texas by one of the worlds most oppressive and despotic rulers in history, the saudi-arabian ruler.
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Grunt
Hi Atreyu,
Please notice I said "Their feet stink too." TOO. I was not trying to bash Norway. I was only responding in the same ink to the USA bashing that goes on. I usually try to ignore it, some people can only gain stature by tearing others down. This one just went over the line a little. I love my country, I served it. I also like people in general and the earth at large. I would like very much to see Norway, and so many other places. I despise lies and manipulators. I detest cults, having made myself and my family the victims of one, namely the Witnesses. I oppose them at every opportunity and have much more in common with an ex-witness from anywhere than a witness from my hometown. At least the Norwegians will speak to me! If I were to talk politics here I would support anyone that is against a cult, especially a destructive cult that claims to be the only true faith and who believes they are assured of paradise if they destroy those who do not share their "faith." These poor Arab children who are blowing themselves and others up never had a chance. I don't hate them, I do hate the cult that promises them paradise for deeds of hatred.
The things I said about Norway are true, but my country and most others have done things just as bad. The best thing about the USA is that it is made up of people from all over. I hope all those who come here from Norway are as nice as you seem to be. I hope I didn't offend you, as you and Norway were not my real targets. Have you posted your story here? If not I would love to hear it sometime if you wouldn't mind telling it.Waiting - So good to see your name. A good post as per usual. Even when you don't post the wisdom you recognize and seize it! I hope all is well with you and yours.
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48
Norwegians: Stick With What You Are Good At.
by Englishman inim totally bewildered that norm, kent and jan appear to have distanced themselves from this site, particularly in view of the many excellent articles that have been written by this trio.. this was norms latest post on kents discussion forum, it sat on site for almost a day before anyone responded:.
the us whore .
these days bush is visited in texas by one of the worlds most oppressive and despotic rulers in history, the saudi-arabian ruler.
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Grunt
I like Norwegians too, in spite of their insults. Some of the best posts I have ever read on the Witnesses came from Norwegians. I have laughed out loud reading some of Kent's comments. I think Jan has a great sense of humor and is a true scholar. They do tend to make comments that are unsupported insulting the U.S., like saying the depression rate is higher here than in Norway or some such. Not important, and wrong. I get tired of the stupid nationalistic stereotyping they try to do. I replied in kind.
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48
Norwegians: Stick With What You Are Good At.
by Englishman inim totally bewildered that norm, kent and jan appear to have distanced themselves from this site, particularly in view of the many excellent articles that have been written by this trio.. this was norms latest post on kents discussion forum, it sat on site for almost a day before anyone responded:.
the us whore .
these days bush is visited in texas by one of the worlds most oppressive and despotic rulers in history, the saudi-arabian ruler.
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Grunt
If I had the history that the Norwegians have, I would be trying to make up for my own past. The last thing they should do is EVER try to look down on other people's governments. They must not know their own or they would be too ashamed to bring it up. The evils perpetrated against the gypsies in Norway make Selma look like a paradise. Because the Norwegians are small and don't make much of a splash on the world scene the western media don't spend a lot of time looking at their transgressions past and present and as they spend so much time looking at other nation's news organizations they don't get their own much. Skin heads beating exchange students to death and the kidnapping of children of minority groups only to be placed in government homes and abused or experimented on, lobotomies and such performed on minority members, they are just finishing paying off the relatives of the Jews they helped the Nazis murder, not to mention the treatment of the Sami (Lapps) they have had to pay them off too. No, Norwegians feet stink too. Worse than ours. Our traitors were never able to take over. They are a people whose foundations lay in robbery and who traditionally have quickly turned on one another for the same motives. I guess we all have our Quislings in the closet. I guess he is among the most famous of Norwegians, though most have probably never heard of him. Had Benedict Arnold taken over and helped kill all the blacks in the USA I guess he would have been a blot as big as Norway's toady.
I think it has to do with size or sunshine or something. They don't have much, can't use much of what they have and their government taxes them to death on the one thing they do have plenty of. I once posted similar thoughts and Jan did give me a funny reply, with pictures of a parade full of beautiful girls in swimming suits, (so there is some sunshine in Norway!) but I will post it again as it does reflect something of the attitude I keep seeing from Norway. Kent had found an article written by an American student that said the USA was like the Witnesses or something like that. I was responding to it. I suspect if you give a drunk Norwegian a computer these feelings come to the surface.I guess if you are huddled in the Cold, Arctic Darkness, looking out at the oil rigs and thinking that despite having oil reserves much like Saudi Arabia's you and the other poor bedarkened Norwegians are paying some of the highest gas prices in the world..... I guess thinking about Americans, with the cheap gas, with those beautiful tanned women, with all that SUNSHINE with your only light being from your computer monitor as you are so bored all you do is scan small American college papers in places like Murfreesborro Tenn. I guess if you lingered over how small you are, about the size of Arizona, or how NORTH you are, well, you might become critical of others also. You might want to forget your own faults and problems by assaulting someone else's, even if yours are MUCH MUCH WORSE! If the only thing you ever got from that land of Sunshine and Rock n Roll was a Watch Tower, then you might be bitter too. If everyone mistook you for a Swede and you had to pretend to like the thirty percent of your pile of cold rocks that can be used, better than that land of Milk and Honey, (or was it Volvos and Money?) next door, then you might be inclined to depression too. Like everyone else. So if someone were to call the USA the Jehovah's Witness of Nations, you might grab it too. Grab it and twist it and pretend you had always believed it and that you didn't know that it was really your country who was most like the Witnesses. Time for some more anti-freeze I think, and to look at a few more little college newspapers and see if any other teenager will say something stupid. That Dam Bush. Those Dam Americans. That Dam cheap gas and those Awful Women with their little swim suits like its really that warm anywhere in the world. Its all staged I tell ya, the sunshine, the moon landing, the women, all phonied up in Hollywood. DAM HOLLYWOOD! I hate's em, I hate's em, I hates'em!
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61
Signing Off on "The NET THANG"
by JT ini would just like to thank everyone for the excellent posts that have appeared here on this site.
i esp would like to thank simon for making this possible.
i sincerely believe that the "net thang" will continue to play a role in helping jw who are sincerely searching for a confirmation that all their doubts and wondering over the years was not the result of them being spiritually weak.
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Grunt
Good Luck, JT, to you and your lady. I have enjoyed talking to you since back on H20 and you have made some posts that are among my favorites. I know you will keep helping to shed light on this cult and any others you come across, you can't help it. Thank you for that. I have no doubt that your lives are and will be filled with friends, please count me among them. I imagine you will find time to drop in once in a while, don't let having said good-bye keep you from speaking, please.
I have never seen you but you have all my respect for your honesty and integrity. Take care, -
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When Did JW's Ever Make You Feel Cared For?
by Englishman inso-called apostates are, imo, actually persons who have been refined in the fires of criticism so that their true personalities shine through.
apostates are the best, most loyal friends in the whole world.
they do not have to worry about whether something is right or wrong, they are free to act upon instinct, upon feeling, upon their innermost emotions.. not for them the wearisome, tiresome, boring old its either right or its wrong mentality that cripples the acolytes of the wtbts!
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Grunt
Tennyson: In Memoriam (54 - 56 fragment) 1850
Oh, yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final end of ill,
To pangs of nature, sins of will,
Defects of doubt, and taints of blood;That nothing walks with aimless feet;
That not one life shall be destroy'd,
Or cast as rubbish to the void,
When God hath made the pile complete;That not a worm is cloven in vain;
That not a moth with vain desire
I shrivell'd in a fruitless fire,
Or but subserves another's gain.Ah Englishman, you say it well. As did your countryman. I agree that most of us so called "apostates" have been through a refining fire. It takes a lot to stand up as we have, not only to men, but to God and say "If this is the way you run it, then I pass." To refuse to call bad good, and good bad even at the price of our friends and family. I think yet another Englishman, said something to the effect of "I could not love you half so much, loved I not honor more." That is kind of the way I feel. I know many of us on this board have loved ones who shun us, not for an evil deed but for rejecting the lies of the cult they adore. All we would have to do is embrace the lie and we have back the children, the parents, the friends. We don't, and that to me is a badge of honor. You said it well with regard to the refiner's fire. Marilyn, the Witnesses and any other cult on earth that rejects immediate family and close friends for the promises they recieve are brass that could never stand that heat. They hug the lie close and refuse any chance of such a trial. If it costs Mom or Dad or Sis so be it. They are getting eternal life after all.
Once again Englishman, your boy sums up my deepest hopes and feelings in a nutshell. He concludes:Behold, we know not anything;
I can but trust that good shall fall
At last--far off--at last, to all,
And every winter change to spring.So runs my dream: but what am I?
An infant crying in the night:
An infant crying for the light:
And with no language but a cry. -
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Should US/UK hit Iraq???
by ISP inwondered what the consensus was.
here in the uk, blair seems set to support bush in hitting iraq but there is not wholesale support in the uk.
there is some dissent in other countries.
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Grunt
Unless they can do real weapons inspections, I don't see that we have a choice. If Saddam had been able to put nuclear tips on those inaccurate missiles he was firing all over the place trying to do some damage to Israel; I think he would have been happy to risk toasting the Palestinians to kill the Jews. He didn't mind dropping the scuds all over the place. Saddam didn't mind killing his own son in law after promising his daughter he wouldn't either. A nuclear cloud over Paris, London or Miami would be a view he'd love and a deed that would make him a hero of godlike proportions to the Arabs of the world. Never doubt the depth of their hate. If you do then think back to them dancing in the streets when the civilians of the twin towers were fried, or the women in the shopping centers blown apart. Islam reminds me of the Witnesses only bloody. They are the only ones who deserve the earth. They would like to have all of our stuff after we are dead. Same attitude. Saddam cannot be allowed to pose a threat to the world if it can be avoided. There are threats we cannot suppress, he is one we can and should.
As for the Jews, they are reacting to the hate I believe. The Brits (Balfour?) were trying to help a dispossessed and persecuted people after the ovens and pogroms of Europe find a land to flee to that could be their own. The U.S. felt the same. They were the little guys all the other Arab nations were going to drive into the sea only they couldn't. The Jews are reasonable, the Arabs aren't. As for the hate the Arabs feel for westerners I think the demonstrations around the Arab world speak for themselves. If not then check out the latest polls, full of hate and believing enormous lies. No Moslems were involved in the twin towers, it was the Jews. Lies like these and the feeling of superiority instilled by their religion breed an attitude. Like the terrorists who almost got into a fight just trying to park before ever getting on the planes (and hacking up stewardesses to get the pilots to open the door so they could kill more civilians) these people are so full of arrogance, envy and hate that they can barely breathe. Short of good education and large investments of cash by the oil rich hypocrites who send the bomb money, pay the widows and nothing more, I see little hope for the area. They use their poor and ignorant as human bombs. Osama didn't ride into a tower, Arafat is still on his cell phone begging for the people he hates to help him again. No. I am glad the U.S. is working on a missile shield just in case one of the beloved of Allah or another of their ilk does manage to fire off a few. I am afraid the days of loose borders and easy trust have been destroyed by these lunatics. I think if they do manage to get a real bomb in and do real damage they will start a conflagration that might just ignite some of the oil they sit on. I hope not. The recent statements in regards to using nukes have been a real concern as I think they were made in reaction to a real perceived threat. -
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GB: A Life Of Luxurious Laziness.
by Englishman inno secular job.. no housework.. no cooking.. no kids.. no money worries.. no door to door work.. just meet up occasionally, thrash out the odd new policy, dish up some new light.. what a life!.
englishman..
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Grunt
The hardest part of that lifestyle would be looking in a mirror. The blood of all the people who have died thinking they were serving god when in fact all they were doing was throwing away life, the grief of all those afflicted by these spiritual parasites would be sitting on your shoulder. How can they do what they do? I just don't believe an honest man could face that mirror.
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Ran into an old friend
by pamkw intoday at the store i ran into an old friend i grew up with.
we were both jw kids.
we both rebelled at the same time.
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Grunt
I guess we all have a common problem in not saying too much. I remember when I first became a Witness; I couldn't believe ALL the lies the churches were telling. It wasn't justs the trinity, or hell-fire, it was also tithing, the cross, having a paid clergy and on and on. When I was talking to old friends I tended to try and tell them too much and point out too many errors in their churches. Now it has swung back again. I don't want to just tell witnesses about the mediator (which most don't know about) or the chronology and how they got it, or the blood situation and how they can even take cow's blood but don't publish all the things they can take, or the United Nations tie, or the Bulgaria lies or....well anyway I know just how you feel. Seeing them so clearly makes me want to help all those I know who are still in to clear the mud off their glasses too. It is really hard not to tell them too much. I wish all of you well in your efforts. I like many others on this board have prepared a little fact sheeet that I put out in laundromats and drs. offices without drawing attention to it. I always engage any witnesses I see, which I must say is disappointingly few. I have, just for my own pleasure put one in the door of a Kingdom Hall in Leesburg, Fla. but as I know that just builds the paranoia and the sense of persecution they have I don't make a habit of that. I have to bite my tongue when talking to my neices and nephews or else I will lose them and their parents. Patience, patience, patience. Time is on our side.
(by the way - HI Marilyn!)