Posts by Grunt

I just faded and it worked well. Moved to another state, never attended and never had a problem with any except family. It used to be that DA was a LOT different than being DF'd, no matter what the official position was. If you were DF'd you were shunned, DA'd you weren't. That changed with the information age, now they treat the two about the same, see the Kingdom Ministry. I think as more and more negative/honest information comes out they will have to get tighter and tighter with the ones left just to keep them. Sad. I had thought there might be some reapproachment with my daughter as time passed and she realized what a pissant she was being but as a zealot I am sure she will take the KM to heart. Say, Englishman, just wanted to mentionwhat a beautiful backyard you have. It looked like a great place to just sit back and be.

Grunt

10

DA letter supplementary - will this finally do it?

by alliwannadoislive in

jw
friends

i da'd back in february and have been receiving fortnightly attempts to visit me ever since - two weeks ago i received a note through my door with a copy of a letter stating the "truth" from the bethel ... i can't leave it at that, so this is what i mailed today ... i hope i haven't made any big mistakes in it - my thanks to www.randytv.com for helping me with the sources i used

dear xxxxx,

thank you for your letter of xx july and copy of the letter from the london bethel.

Grunt

I thought it was a superb letter. I can see why they kept coming back though, as you were not condemning them personally nor were you too hard on the Organization. They probably hope they can help reason with you, show you that if "left to Jehovah" the Organization would square itself away and get out of the U.N. or stop teaching whatever it is that you think they are wrong on. After all, "Where else can you go?"
I think your approach was/is a good one. Using the newspaper articles and keeping low key might get them to try to understand your point of view so they can "adjust" your thinking. That little bit of openmindedness might do them a lot of good. Maybe let in the recognition that the Society has been decietful. Anyway, I wish you all the best and hope that this does indeed accomplish what you want it to.

Grunt

69

Who Here Believes in God?

by The_Bad_Seed in

jw
friends

personally, i do not believe god ever has or ever will exist.

i have my reasons -- i guess i could be considered an agnostic, rather than an athiest.

i was curious to see what the larger part of the former borg community believed, now looking from the outside in, rather than the opposite.

Grunt

I do. Things are just too beautiful and complicated not to. How the creator can allow some of the things that happen to happen, I don't know. I still pray. It has nothing to do with ego. For me, not for a lot of the world I know, but for me, life is and has been a beautiful trip all in all. I am grateful for each breath I draw, each sunrise I see, each wonder I get to enjoy each day as I head back to the dust I came from. Don't want anything, back. Just want to say "Thanks" for the sweet feeling I get holding my wife's hand, helping my son moving or sharing a meal with him and his family, going down a backwoods road on a bike with flowers and forest all around and the feeling of flight it gives you. Rode my jet ski into the red band of the setting sun on a beautiful lake with nothing to do when I docked it but talk and eat with people I love. THANKS. When I draw my last breath I guess I will want one more, but I hope I will still be able to say THANKS. I didn't do anything to get this but I am. I even got to enjoy Englishman's garden, Thanks to you too Englishman, I thought it was beautiful.

Grunt

14

My daddy wants to sue the elders!!!!

by Vivamus in

jw
friends

my daddy wants to sue the elders!!!!

i am having a tremendous amount of fun with this, not that i would let him do it, (wouldnt do any good), but i find it so very sweet of him.

here is what happened.

Grunt

Hi V,
If you can prove they said it,I would say sue for sure. They are facing so much litigation and in fear of more so will probably settle out of court with a secrecy clause, take the money and spend it but make a copy of the check and frame it to put over the mantle. I believe the WT is going to be writting a lot of checks out pretty soon. I hope they have to give away every penny they've duped people out of by promising things they didn't deliver on and could, like love and compassion, never mind the lies they told about being "The Faithful and Discreet Slave" delivering lies as food at the proper time and promising life in a paradise they dreamed up to fit their own desires. Future kings, what a joke.

Grunt

34

Appeal Letter 7-29-02

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

draffenville congregation of jehovahs witnesses.

judicial committee elders of:.

murray congregation of jehovahs witnesses.

Grunt

Bill,
I am sincerely sorry about your dad. I hope he relents and sees things as they are and not as he wishes they were.
As per your request in another thread, I did write the paper and I finsished it with this line:

"This is the kind of pressure Bill Bowen is standing up to. This man had everything to lose but his self-respect by taking the stand he has for the victims he gives a voice to. I hope you never know how hard it is to risk the ones you love most in this life for your integrity. To risk them and lose them and not recant."

In my opinion you are doing right, not giving an inch, forcing them to break all of their own rules and know in their hearts what a sham their rules really are. By exposing the control they hold over such judicial committies you show just how little real justice is involved. Thanks to you and all those like you who are fighting the fine fight and taking horrible losses all for the sake of the innocents who have suffered too much already and who had no other champion.

You have all my respect.

Grunt

16

Bethel Lurkers! Let People Go

by metatron in

jw
friends

it should be obvious by now that the society's vindictive policies.

are having a negative effect.

how many angry and disgruntled.

Grunt

Farkel hit it on the head. See CULT. It is all about control. If they allowed normal criticism and encourage constructive change this cult would cease to exist within a few conversations and meetings.

Grunt

24

Louisville Newspaper-Please help

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

if you would like to help me, please write to this newspaper and confirm your support of how wrong watchtower is to silence abuse survivors and supporters by disfellowshipping them.

bill

http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2002/07/27/ke072702s248845.htm

Grunt

Ditto.

Grunt

41

Email from a Witness about the site

by Simon in

jw
friends

would just like to say that i have spent hours reading material on this web site.

just would like to also say that i am still one of jehovah's witnesses.

if jehovah's witnesses are truly distructive and to familys as well then i would like to know please, how on earth is the association of brothers going to stay together, if it is really destructive?

Grunt

I would have to say the Jehovah's Witnesses elevate themselves, twist scripture, deny the mediatorship of Christ, limit the New Covenant, change doctrines frequently, encourage others to be critical of the church they attend while denying anyone the right to be critical of the Jehovah's Witness organization. Many of them shun their own mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters and treat them as dead, not for a sin but for being critical of the idol they have made, "The Organization." In fact they are urged to "Hate" them. They have substituted a man made "Society" for true Christianity.
From pinpointing the return of an invisible Christ in 1914 to the denial of Christ as mediator for all men, they preach a DIFFERENT GOSPEL than was preached by Paul and and I think the following scripture applies to them:

Galatians chapt. 1:7 But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.

Don't accept men or an organization as a go between, a mediator between you and God. Remember how the Watchtower quoted the scripture in explaining it?

w79 11/15 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Man" p. 26

"There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."1 Tim. 2:5, 6.

It really reads "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."1 Tim. 2:5, 6.

They teach a different gospel. They are accursed. If you really do go by your own conscience look closely and then GET OUT. You can't clean up the hogs by wallowing with them.

Grunt

17

Interesting Thought

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

a friend sent this post to me and i thought it was was interesting.. silentlambs.

dear barbara and bill:.

concerning the watchtower's actions against you folks and the commendable letter from barb's husband, joe: excellent points about paul airing a congregation's faults btw.. .

Grunt

Cyngus,
My great desire is to help people, especially the people I love, to get out of this cult. I am always on the lookout for Witnesses on the street that I can allow to approach me so I can try to enlighten them. I have printed up papers to leave in washaterias and such where Witnesses typically leave Watchtowers and Awakes and have even slipped them under the door of Kingdom Halls. I have strong feelings about this cult. They cost me a daughter and several other relatives I love. They could yet cost me my parents and a brother. I don't have grandchildren because my daughter doesn't want to bring them into this "Old System" of things. I guess that is just as well as I wouldn't be welcome to visit them if she had children. It is easy to let the depth of my anger and indignation to cause me to judge people and react to anyone getting involved with this crew. That is wrong.
I had read a post you made back a month or two ago where you said you were thinking of going back in, if I remember right. That is strictly your business and I know that when you have people you love inside it is tough. I don't think anyone as intelligent as you and as well informed as you could stay in and I think that influenced me to make the remarks I did above. I have read your posts for a long, long time and have enjoyed them. I hope you will accept my apology for responding to an intelligent question with an insult, saying you should re-up.
I think the question you posed has been well answered by others or I would address it. The key to me is that they "Strain at a gnat and swallow a camel." They are so concerned with the legalistic understanding of a rule that they overlook the larger problem of a child being raped and abused. Jesus addressed this attitude in their predecessors at Matt. 15:

15 Then there came to Jesus from Jerusalem Pharisees and scribes, saying: 2 "Why is it your disciples overstep the tradition of the men of former times? For example, they do not wash their hands when about to eat a meal."

3 In reply he said to them: "Why is it YOU also overstep the commandment of God because of YOUR tradition? 4 For example, God said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'Let him that reviles father or mother end up in death.' 5 But YOU say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother: "Whatever I have by which you might get benefit from me is a gift dedicated to God," 6 he must not honor his father at all.' And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 'This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.'"

In my opinion they really are "The blind, leading the blind." Still, that is only my opinion and you know the saying about that. Everybody has one. I'm sorry for the tone I took with you.

Grunt