Pickled

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Posts by Pickled

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  119

  Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for anyone that looks at this thread, could you write something either profound or simply interesting so as to make the reader see the truth about "the truth"?

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  Pickled

  Quietlyleaving, you wrote:
  "2 verses from thessalonians sum up how and what I felt whe sharing the good news of the kingdom
  2thess1:6-10
  and 1thess2:7&8"
  Are you saying that you believed that God was going to destroy those who troubled you, but you loved those who troubled you enough to share the gospel with them?
  
  (Corrected post to past tense)
• 
  119

  Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for anyone that looks at this thread, could you write something either profound or simply interesting so as to make the reader see the truth about "the truth"?

  ?

  1. 
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  Pickled

  Thank you Quietleaving, but as a former potential convert and never having been a JW, I have no idea what you mean. Can you elaborate and possibly include how you felt about what you did in fact believe?
  
  To potential converts, Jesus and God still represents their creator who loves them. What method did you use to convey to them that these two loving supreme individuals were at the brink of killing them without sounding as though that was something that you were all in favor of?
  
  What did you say when potential converts expressed a look of alarm upon finding out that you are so friendly, and yet completely comfortable with the idea that they will be violently destroyed and you will be spared?
  
  How did you truly feel about the way THEY felt about that?
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  119

  Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for anyone that looks at this thread, could you write something either profound or simply interesting so as to make the reader see the truth about "the truth"?

  ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pickled

  Minimus, I think it would provide a wealth of information if the former Witnesses on this site could share their own specific former approach they used in the effort to convince others of that same lie.
  
  I understand that they no longer believe it, and in many cases that process included a great deal of pain. However, isn't it simply a fact that in order to now be a former member who realizes it was all lie, you had to have previously been someone who was actively participating in and attempting to convince others of that same lie? Isn't it true that members are encouraged to actively "preach" with the goal in mind to convince others that what they are "preaching" is the truth?
  
  Part of healing, recovering, and spending time online in an effort to make others aware of something that caused so much pain, could include sharing in an unvarnished and clear way your own previous role in spreading those same ideas that you have now realized were false and destructive.
  
  As I said before, if two-thirds of Witnesses are walking out the door and still the number of members are increasing however slight, that means that there are many people who may stop and read this thread who are looking at this religion for the first time.
  
  That means that there are so many people who have just started down this road who could benefit tremendously from hearing honest open accounts of methods that were used to initiate curiosity, to convince them to begin a study, and then finally lead them to baptism and membership. Maybe you could share thoughts about the place you were in then, and who you were and why, instead of just what you realize now looking back. The potential new converts today have not been through the same thing. All they know right now is that two very nice, well dressed and smiling people are standing in their doorway managing to do what all the other religions stopped doing years ago. They are impressed with the conviction these people must have about the bible, and their willingness to spend so much time doing the very unpopular and often mocked practice of going door to door. They are polite, they are interested in what is going on in the world, they are sympathetic to their worries, fears, and concerns.
  
  I know that exposing what "they" are doing is a great way to help others. But what did YOU do when you were a Witness? Did you have a really unique approach or method that you were proud of? What were your real thoughts THEN as you were doing it? How did you manage to act as though you valued the life of a potential convert, while at the same time feeling quite comfortable with the belief that God was going to incinerate them one day if they failed to believe you? How did you reconcile those two thoughts?
  I am not talking about sharing things that were pleasant to you that you might miss. I am talking about sharing a behind the scenes view that you REALLY had of potential converts....those people "in the world". What lies did YOU tell them in your effort to win them over? Yes, former witness are victims of a great deception, but the unique thing is that they all participated in the victimization as well. Why not turn that into a tremendous tool?
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  119

  Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for anyone that looks at this thread, could you write something either profound or simply interesting so as to make the reader see the truth about "the truth"?

  ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pickled

  Tired of the Hypocrisy wrote: “Lying is ok if you have a theocratic strategy motive for doing so.”
  
  I noticed this going on a lot. I realize that people tend to hide things or lie about them when they think others will think it is wrong. That is true everywhere, and in different religions different things are met with different degrees of disapproval. But it seemed that because the stakes are so high among the JW, if you are caught doing something wrong, that it created an atmosphere of deception as a permanent condition. Threats do not change an individual it just makes them better at hiding what they are actually doing.
  
  Rarely was the initial expression of thoughts the most honest one for that individual. I felt a sense of sadness at times because most of the time it took a very deliberate and gentle series of questions before my study partners would get closer to how they really felt about a certain issue. Sometimes we never got there at all.
  
  This probably isn’t the kind of deception to which Tired of the Hypocrisy was alluding. Possibly you meant the kind that causes that long pause and a scrambling of thoughts when the potential convert finds a portion of doctrine on their own that is still on the books, but is rarely mentioned anymore. Or maybe the outright lying that sometimes occurs when the JW is trying every method they have perfected over time to draw you in, in the hope that you will have become so convinced of this new belief system that the most outlandish of the doctrines or burdensome expectations will cease to matter when finally discovered. This must be what happens when faithfulness is reduced to numbers on a card. It’s odd that a husband can know you love him even when you have never given him a piece of paper indicating just how many hours you have been faithful.
  
  My personal observations left me feeling saddened many times. Because whenever a person makes a lifestyle of hiding their true thoughts, it creates a psychological split that is mentally very destructive and impossible to live with without a great deal of deep inner turmoil and anxiety. The most devastating aspect of this inevitable condition is that the members, at the same time, are left without an avenue of healing, recovery, or change apart from steps they hopefully take after leaving altogether. It seems to be an ongoing and frustrating cycle of searching for comfort within the very arrangement causing the turmoil.
  
  If you are currently studying this new religion, start expressing all of your thoughts about it now. If that is what you are genuinely thinking and you get a negative response, then it is up to you to change how you view it or to continue thinking it and live with the response. Don’t start down that path of lying to yourself, and lying to those around you in order to fit in. If you don’t believe it, say it. My advice would be, if you don’t believe it and it seems to not fit at all with who you are, leave it behind with the idea that you can always come back later. Lying to make something fit is the same as shopping for shoes with a new friend and buying a size 7, when you really wear a size 9, just so your new friend won’t think you have big feet. You will either have to secretly return them when your friend isn’t around, or live with the pain. The bigger issue here is what’s wrong with a size 9?
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  119

  Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for anyone that looks at this thread, could you write something either profound or simply interesting so as to make the reader see the truth about "the truth"?

  ?

  1. 
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  3. 
• 

  Pickled

  I wondered while reading Don Cameron's book if the average Witness could openly profess to disregard 48 of the Watchtower's basic teachings of today, and still be considered a member in good standing.
  
  Clearly this would not be the case, and yet that is exactly what happened at their highest level.
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  119

  Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for anyone that looks at this thread, could you write something either profound or simply interesting so as to make the reader see the truth about "the truth"?

  ?

  1. 
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  Pickled

  Thank you Don Cameron for writing your book "Captives of a Concept". If anyone reading this thread has not read it yet, it is an essential read. It is the clearest, most direct source of information about why the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" did not qualify to receive that appointment by Jesus Christ that I have ever read. His book outlines all the dates, references to watchtower literature, and comparisons to scripture that explains clearly this erroneous belief.
  
  If you are currently "studying" with the Jehovah's Witnesses and would like to consider a logical and easy to read argument that addresses the very foundations of their beliefs, this is the book to start with.
  
  I have researched and spent countless hours combing through Watchtower literature and have learned a great deal on my own. But what this book offers are solid ideas in one single book that I did not notice until I read Mr. Cameron's book, in spite of the months I spent researching. He presents core ideas, and ideas that go to the very heart of everything you are studying right now.
  
  The book is affordable and worth every penny.
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  119

  Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for anyone that looks at this thread, could you write something either profound or simply interesting so as to make the reader see the truth about "the truth"?

  ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pickled

  I'm glad you started this thread, Minimus. If two thirds of Jehovah's Witnesses are leaving their faith, and the claim is that in spite of that, their numbers are increasing, that means that there are a whole lot of people out there considering this belief system for the first time. Based on my own experiences of considering it and then deciding it was not what it appeared to be at first glance, this type of thread is really needed.
  
  What I desperately needed when I was first considering this religion, was for someone, anyone to offer me rational, logical perspectives that presented another side. However much I could understand the pain, anger, and the need for a cathartic "venting" by those who were tossed aside and felt betrayed, I just simply had never been in that same situation. I was at the beginning of a pathway and had never been all the way down that road and to the other side. I consider myself fortunate. I researched extensively and felt very alone in my quest. On the one side was mainstream Christianity with all of it's false teachings that had been so thoroughly pointed out to me. And on the other side was this new religion that seemed too good to be true. And squarely in the middle was my reasoning abilities, and this nagging feeling that I kept trying to ignore because I was becoming convinced that I was finding the truth after all.
  
  What I consider the most fortunate of all is that, because of my need to always question, I finally asked myself..."When did I start to believe that there are only those two options left in the entire Universe?"
  
  When did my thinking become so small?
  
  Freedom is not found in a prepackaged box delivered to your door. Freedom is knowing that you have the right in this vast universe to consider every and all options as long as you are not harming your neighbor in the process. If I am created....then my creator must have something in mind that doesn't require so many twists and turns to recognize.
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  119

  Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for anyone that looks at this thread, could you write something either profound or simply interesting so as to make the reader see the truth about "the truth"?

  ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pickled

  Thank you Minimus. Glad to be here!
• 
  119

  Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for anyone that looks at this thread, could you write something either profound or simply interesting so as to make the reader see the truth about "the truth"?

  ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pickled

  I don't think any reasonable person is going to deny that mind control exists somewhere, sometimes. The question is whether or not that is what is going on with the members of the WTBTS. Is that correct? So maybe it is a good start to figure out what the framework of mind control is, or rather the characteristics that are exhibited when one is under the influence of mind control.
  
  After researching those qualities, the way information is fed to potential converts gradually, and the alienation of those in "the world" and the growing perception that they are the enemy.....doesn't it seem that many of those methods and results are strikingly similar to mind control techniques and results?
  
  However this may sound, please know Lola that I am not trying to single you out. It's just that in considering your comment, I also wondered how you personally view the fellow Witnesses around you in terms of control they might have over you. As an example, how willing would you be to share with them the fact that you post on this type of forum? I am not passing judgment and am not even suggesting that you should or should not disclose that to anyone at all. I have no idea if you are even a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses or not. But I do know just from my brief time around them that I never encountered one single person who would be willing to admit to their fellow members that they were having doubts about the Society in general. And I feel very confident that to admit that they frequented online sites like this one would put their membership in jeopardy.
  
  It just seems that when the type of "truth" that is being dispensed is so fragile and could potentially be so easily destroyed by "apostates who are just angry they got kicked out".....doesn't it make sense that the only thing that would keep them held that tightly together in spite of that fragility, would be some form of mind control? In other words....if their "truth" itself is so easily crushed...what is it that keeps them believing?
• 
  119

  Could U Please Cite Some Personal Interesting Observations About The Truth?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for anyone that looks at this thread, could you write something either profound or simply interesting so as to make the reader see the truth about "the truth"?

  ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pickled

  If you are currently "studying", there are questions you should ask your “study” partner. Questions are good. Questions can help clarify an overall message. Questions can bring to light underlying ideas, concepts, and beliefs that either time or agenda have not yet exposed. You should also ask yourself some questions so that you can know your own motivation; what your goals are and why those are your goals.
  
  Before a home buyer purchases a house, there is an inspection that takes place. The reason why the house is inspected is because no reasonable buyer wants to spend the next 30 years paying hard earned money, and spending hard to find time repairing a building that is in constant need of maintenance. The potential home owner generally wants to find a structure that is solid, without a shifting foundation, and is an overall reliable investment. That is reasonable. That is also just a house. It’s not a lifestyle change that is going to alienate all of your former friends and family. The house is not going to collapse around you leaving you wounded and confused if you have a guest over that it feels you should have never invited into your home. It’s just a house, and consider how much time is spent on average picking out just the right one.
  
  Ask your study partner about Love. But before you do, ask a co-worker or neighbor who has children if they love their children. Carefully note their response; their body language and facial expressions. Ask yourself if you can remember ever being in love. Describe that love. Consider the way you love your friends, your children, or even the way you felt while watching a news story on TV and the faces of the victims moved you to tears. People you didn’t even know and would never meet, and still you cried.
  
  Before you ask your study partner about Love, ask him/her about what it is that sets the Jehovah’s Witnesses, other than doctrine alone, apart from all other religions. The answer will be LOVE. Now ask what kind of LOVE. The answer will probably be “Love in principle”. The kind of Love that is a principle. The kind of love that is required. Mandated love. Again, carefully note their response; their body language and facial expressions.
  
  Now ask YOURSELF….how important is it to me to feel truly loved? How important has it always been to me in the past to have a friend who sticks by me through thick and thin, no matter what? How have I always felt about co-workers who run to the boss with details about any perceived errors of those they work with? What does genuine love mean to me? Am I willing to live entirely under a different and new definition? How do I think God should love me? Does it match the way this new group of people is loving one another?
  
  Questions are good.