Robert7, I had a professor many years ago who must have thought in his mind that the words “I don’t know” were not an acceptable option.
A couple of the students caught on and started asking the most ridiculous questions they could think of in an effort to enjoy just how outlandish his answers could be. Not exactly nice, I know. But fortunately the same mind set that kept him thinking that he was the final authority in all things, was the same type of mindset that caused him to not notice at all just how ridiculous and off topic the questions were.
Pickled
JoinedPosts by Pickled
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75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
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75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
WOW, MOG....this may be the first accurate prophecy of theirs I have ever read! :-)
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75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Thank you SPAZnik, and you too MOG and others for your contributions to this ongoing discussion.
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75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
I understand what you are saying R. Crusoe, and I think I am feeling very fortunate today, and that is why this is on my mind. I feel fortunate that I did so much research and spent so much time combing through the literature and teachings of the JW before making a decision. I was presented with some ideas and those ideas intrigued me, and for a time I made it my goal to immerse myself in the environment and teachings as a way to know more than just reading words on a page could provide.
The literature provides one message, and the environment adds to that message with a structure and practices that are somewhat different from what the literature indicates and that the general public is offered. I would not have known this had I simply focused exclusively on the literature alone.
I feel fortunate because the way I went about it allowed me to see how this literature is actually put into practice. There is the literature that offers scriptural insights, and then there is the actual life of the Jehovah’s Witness. The struggling and the sharing about the difficult transitions that people on this website have had to make upon leaving this religion is not because of what was in the literature alone. It is because of the way the teachings are put into practice as well. I think that maybe most of the members themselves don’t realize the differences in the two. It seems as though they continue to think year after year that those wonderful insights they are reading in their magazines are the sum total of their entire religion, and then eventually they feel baffled, confused, and deeply hurt when someone in authority over them seems to have the unlimited ability to question everything they believe and any and all of their possibly hidden motives or sins. They find themselves walking in the shoes of Hannah with Eli assigning a suspicious motive to their attempt to offer their best.
It seems designed in a way that creates such a heavy load that taxes the believer year after year, always in fear of being disciplined or suspected of something or, even when they are giving it all they’ve got, just simply always and constantly made to feel they are falling just short of who they really have the potential to be.
I just feel fortunate today because I decided after looking so carefully, to not embrace this religion or the method they offer for having a relationship with God. It did have a profound effect on me even though I never joined and I could feel myself gradually being lowered into some sort of system that I could see would eventually crush me under its’ weight. It affected me enough to want to take the time to offer in posts my sincere thoughts and observations about this religion that others may be considering as I once was. I thought I had such a strong mind, but the way these teachings are fed to a potential new convert, in a gradual piecemeal way that leaves out all the distasteful and hard to swallow bits, I was actually shocked when I realized suddenly just how much of my thinking was becoming wrapped around this religion, and how little time it took. A Witness reading this would likely respond to this comment with “Well, isn’t it a good thing for your mind to become ‘wrapped’ around the teachings of Jehovah’s Organization?”
My answer would be it is a good thing for your mind to become wrapped around those things that are true. But when your mind becomes wrapped around something that has rendered you incapable of identifying a lie when you see it, then it is not the truth around which your mind is wrapped. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Thank you NEJ for pointing me in that direction. I will look that up.
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75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
When I was studying this religion with the JW I asked why the 1975 prediction was generally disregarded. The answer I was given by several was that the WTBTS never gave that specific date and it was only those spiritually weak ones who chose to take that date literally and then become disillusioned when it did not come to pass.
To confirm that explanation I looked it up. They did in fact PROVE with their time lines and charts that 1975 was the definite date. They made it clear. They stated it clearly. They use those same charts still today only for different dates.
Then when it didn't come to pass they blamed those who questioned that failure for being spiritually weak and taking those dates too literally. This is where the current members got that idea that it was over zealous and weak members who got it wrong.
It amazes me that the WTBTS makes it a disfellowshipping offense to read religious literature other than their own, and even states clearly that what they are providing in the way of literature is so necessary that even if the believer were to rely on the Bible alone, in just a short amount of time with reading only the Bible itself the believer would fall into a state of unbelief. That means that there is no greater Gospel than the literature produced by the WTBTS.
Given that fact, it seems so irresponsible and callous to turn around and blame the members for believing so strongly in the words that the WTBTS actually presented as that same supreme Gospel.
If anyone has those clearly stated predictions on hand and can post them on this thread I would really appreciate that. Potential new converts are hearing the same things I heard and I think it would benefit them greatly if they could see those statements in writing for themselves. I can type them out here, but I think it would have a greater impact to see the actual scanned in pages. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Neverendingjourney, thank you for posting such a clear and detailed description of the why behind the what. I have printed it out and am going to reread it. I understand now why there is such a focus on the dates, and why it is built in to their religion.
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75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
That's a good point JT. It seems sad in a way that the leaders don't seem to mind that their unnecessary practice of predicting specific dates has caused their followers to become more concerned with escaping death than they are of living life. The governing body seems to have handled the idea of "faithfulness" the same way. Instead of faithfulness being something that fills you with joy, it is actually measured on a time card and scrutinized under threat of discipline or appearing to be spiritually weak.
I really don't know if the members of this religion have realized that they take great pride in the fact that they do not preach about hell, while at the same time focusing so intently on exactly what year a type of hell on earth will occur. I have compared some protestant religions with the JW, and the JW seem to have an even greater focus on a coming destruction than the protestants have about hell.
Should either of those be the priority? The part about "I came to bring you life" seems to be an after thought. It starts at the top, and in this particular religion it starts and also stops at the top. The reason why this is a fact is because this religion is not designed at all in a way that leaves the individual congregations with any type of autonomy whatsoever. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
I posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so I made it a separate topic because I would really like to read your thoughts about this...
Does anyone know if any reasons are given by the WTBTS about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
It seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years. They have been doing this since the 1800's, over and over getting it wrong and having to retract or change a previous date. So why do it? There must be a motive behind it, otherwise they would not continue such a practice or exercise in numerology that has provided such a bounty of inaccurate information.
Why not just focus on the key teachings of the bible and leave out all the guess work? Even if they continue to believe, remarkably, that it is NOT guess work at all, but dates given by the direction of the holy spirit, and even if they understand that the holy spirit is just confused....why not keep those dates to themselves as that "faithful and discrete slave" who is the holder and un-folder of all bible secrets?
That would be entirely acceptable and in keeping with their standard practice of dropping "hints" given by traveling members of the governing body or other leaders, "hints" and "clues" that cause the members to speculate on their own, and gives the clear message that there is in fact a lot of information that they have up their sleeve from God that they just haven't shared yet because the members aren't ripe enough to hear it. So why not do the same thing with the dates and just "hint" that there are times and seasons that things are going to happen, and God himself provided the governing body with a stone doomsday calendar, only they are not going to share it because it might cause people to stop focusing on the importance of the ransom sacrifice and get completely caught up in when to expect the world to end?
It seems amazingly foolish to purposely include an unnecessary practice in a religion that also claims to have the only truth in existence, a practice that continues decade after decade to subtract in a great way from any other truths they may be preaching that actually ARE in the bible.
So why do they do it? Is it a tool to motivate, like a threat of sorts to keep the members too afraid to quit when Armageddon is always right around the corner? Or do they really have the same mind set as Russell only without the Pyramids?
I would really like to hear your thoughts about this. -
8
what is the generation change that happened in 1995 ?
by looloo ini left in 1995 , ive heard ypu talk of it but what actually was said and what was the reation to the change by the rank and file , i do remember the millions now living will never die saying .
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Pickled
Does anyone know if any reasons are given by the WTBTS about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
It seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years. They have been doing this since the 1800's, over and over getting it wrong and having to retract or change a previous date. So why do it? There must be a motive behind it, otherwise they would not continue such a practice or exercise in numerology that has provided such a bounty of inaccurate information.
Why not just focus on the key teachings of the bible and leave out all the guess work? Even if they continue to believe, remarkably, that it is NOT guess work at all, but dates given by the direction of the holy spirit, and even if they understand that the holy spirit is just confused....why not keep those dates to themselves as that "faithful and discrete slave" who is the holder and un-folder of all bible secrets?
That would be entirely acceptable and in keeping with their standard practice of dropping "hints" given by traveling members of the governing body or other leaders, "hints" and "clues" that cause the members to speculate on their own, and gives the clear message that there is in fact a lot of information that they have up their sleeve from God that they just haven't shared yet because the members aren't ripe enough to hear it. So why not do the same thing with the dates and just "hint" that there are times and seasons that things are going to happen, and God himself provided the governing body with a stone doomsday calendar, only they are not going to share it because it might cause people to stop focusing on the importance of the ransom sacrifice and get completely caught up in when to expect the world to end?
It seems amazingly foolish to purposely include an unnecessary practice in a religion that also claims to have the only truth in existence, a practice that continues decade after decade to subtract in a great way from any other truths they may be preaching that actually ARE in the bible.
So why do they do it? Is it a tool to motivate, like a threat of sorts to keep the members too afraid to quit when Armageddon is always right around the corner? Or do they really have the same mind set as Russell only without the Pyramids?
I would really like to hear your thoughts about this.