Chikikie, I apologize for what you have interpreted as an aggressive and judging tone.
I now see in retrospect that I approached you with the premise that you encouraged your sister to become a member of this forum in an attempt to discourage her from joining a cult that you were able to tear yourself away from years ago. I understand from your responses that my premise was wrong. Because my posts included questions for you, as well as statements about the religion itself, I had no way of knowing that you would interpret questions as statements of judgment, or statements of judgment against this cult as statements against you personally. My effort was to approach this duo dilemma in the same way I would approach it if I myself had a sister who was considering returning to a cult that I myself found very painful. After encouraging her to join this forum I would solicit all the help I could get from those who were willing to jump in. I see this was a grievous error in thinking on my part, one which I will certainly no longer pursue at the apparent cost of your designated now alternate purpose, one that I need not understand.
Again, I apologize for my literal interpretation of your intent and I hope you will forgive my misguided attempts.
Pickled
Pickled
JoinedPosts by Pickled
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181
It looks like I will become an elder this week!
by outofthebox inthat's right guys.
as i told you before, they boe have been considering me for the eldership.
which i don't care for, but since my family is stuck in this cult, i guess i can use the new position to help them see that the holy spirit has nothing to do with me being an elder.
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Pickled
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did taze plan for a massive religion that appeals to only the downtrodden?
by Lotus65 indid taze when originally created this religion did he plan for the massive cult organization that it has become or was it mere chance and did he plan to prey on the weak and downtrodden people in society or was this originally supposed to encompass all people into "life saving" religion
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Pickled
Charles Taze Russell (February 16, 1852 – October 31, 1916), also known as Pastor Russell, was a Protestant evangelist from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA and founder of the Bible Student movement. [1]
After having published several articles in various religious journals as early as 1876 he formed his own religious journal Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence in 1879, as well as establishing Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society in 1881. In 1884 Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society published the first in a series of seven books (six of which Russell wrote himself) entitled Studies in the Scriptures with the first six originally entitled The Millennial Dawn. In 1908 Russell transferred the headquarters of the Society to its current location in Brooklyn, New York.
Following Russell's death controversy arose over the practices of the new president of the Society, and a widespread schism erupted which divided the movement. The majority of the membership broke away, eventually resulting in the formation of several smaller groups known as Bible Students, while those who remained in fellowship with the Watch Tower Society took on the name Jehovah's Witnesses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell
What was going on in the world around Russell and during the formation of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?
1838 Samuel Morse invents the Morse Code
1848 Gold discovered in California
1850 Religion’s Third Great Awakening begins
1851 Isaac Singer invents the Sewing Machine
1852 Charles Taze Russell is born
1853 George Crum invents the Potato Chip
1856 Louis Pasteur invents Pasteurisation
1857 Joself Gayetty invents Toilet Paper (Gayetty’s Medicated Paper)
1860 Abraham Lincoln elected 16th President of the U.S.
1861 Civil War begins
1862 Abraham Lincoln proclaims abolition of slavery
1862 Dr. Richard Gatling patents the Machine Gun
1862 Alexander Parks invents the first man-made Plastic
1865 Civil War ends
1876 Custer defeated at Little Big Horn
1876 Russell begins writing articles in religious journals
1876 Alexander Graham Bell patents the Telephone
1877 Edison invents the Phonograph
1879 Edison produces an incandescent bulb for commercial us
1879 Russell prints the first edition of Zion’s Watchtower and Herald of Christ’s Presence
1881 David Houston patents the Roll Film for cameras
1886 Gottlieb Daimler builds the world’s first Four-Wheeled motor vehicle
1886 John Pemberton invents Coca-Cola
1893 American, W.L. Judson invents the Zipper
1898 Edwin Prescott patents the Roller Coaster
1899 I.R. Johnson patents the Bicycle Frame
1901 The first Radio Receiver successfully receives a radio transmission
1903 The Wright Brothers invent the first gas motored and manned airplane
1903 Mary Anderson invents Windshield Wipers
1904 Teabags are invented by Thomas Sullivan
1904 Benjamin Holt invents a Tractor
1905 Albert Einstein published the Theory of Relativity and made famous the equation, E=mc2
1906 William Kellogg invents Cornflakes
1908 The first Model T car is sold
1909 Instant Coffee invented by G. Washington
1910 Thomas Edison demonstrated the first Talking Motion Picture
1912 Clarence Crane created Life Savers candy
1913 Arthur Wynne invents the Crossword Puzzle
1913 Mary Phelps Jacob invents the Bra
1914-1918 World War I
1916 Radio tuners invented that receive stations
1919 Short-Wave Radio invented
1919 Charles Strite invents the Pop-Up Toaster
1921 The first Robot is built
1922 Insulin invented by Sir Frederick Brant Banting
1922 The first 3-D movie requiring spectacles with one red and one green lens is released
1923 Garrett A. Morgan invents a Traffic Signal
1923 Clarence Birdseye invents Frozen Food
1924 The Dynamic Loudspeaker is invented by Rice and Kellogg
1924 Notebooks with Spiral Bindings invented
1925 The Mechanical Television, a precursor to the modern television is invented by John Logie Baird
1927 Erik Rotheim patents an Aerosol Can
1927 Philip Drinker invents the Iron Lung
1928 Alexander Fleming discovers Penicillin
1929 Yo-Yo invented
1930 The “Differential Analyzer”, or Analog Computer invented by Vannevar Bush at MIT in Boston
1930 Frank Whittle and Dr. Hans von Ohain invent a Jet Engine
1931 Max Knott and Ernst Ruska co-invent the Electron Microscope
1932 Polaroid Photography invented by Edwin Herbert Land
1932 Radio telescope invented by Karl Jansky
1932 The Zoom Lens and Light Meter invented
1932 Carl C. Magee invents the first Parking Meter
1933 Adolph Hitler becomes the leader of Germany
1933 FM Radio invented by Edwin Howard Armstrong
1933 Stereo Records invented
1933 Richard M. Hollingshead builds a prototype Drive-In Movie Theater in his driveway
1935 First canned Beer is made
1937 Second Sino-Japanese War (a precursor to World War II)
1939 German invasion of Poland (another precursor to World War II)
1940 Karl Pabst invents the Jeep
1945 World War II comes to a close -
16
did taze plan for a massive religion that appeals to only the downtrodden?
by Lotus65 indid taze when originally created this religion did he plan for the massive cult organization that it has become or was it mere chance and did he plan to prey on the weak and downtrodden people in society or was this originally supposed to encompass all people into "life saving" religion
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Pickled
Russell's message and theology seems to fit perfectly within the religious landscape of that time. He was among many who stood out at that time that had charismatic qualities that they channeled into religion. If you take a brief look at the historical environment during the years that he invented this religion, it becomes clear that he was one of many who were swept up in the same type of movement.
RELIGIOUS LANDSCAPE
1730 – 1740’s The First Great Awakening
The First Great Awakening (often referred by historians as the Great Awakening) is the name sometimes given to a period of heightened religious activity, primarily in Great Britain and her North American colonies in the 1730s and 1740s. In New England, the Great Awakening was influential among many Congregationalists; while in the Middle and Southern colonies (especially in the "Backcountry" regions of those colonies) the Awakening was influential among Presbyterians and other dissenting Protestants. Although the idea of a "great awakening" is contested, it is clear that the period was, particularly in New England, a time of increased religious activity. The revival began with Jonathan Edwards, a well-educated theologian and Congregationalist minister from Northampton, Massachusetts, who came from Puritan and Calvinist roots, but emphasized the importance and power of immediate, personal religious experience. Edwards was said to be "solemn, with a distinct and careful enunciation, and a slow cadence." [1] Nevertheless, his sermons were powerful and attracted a large following. "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God," is his most famous sermon. The Methodist preacher George Whitefield, visiting from England, continued the movement, traveling across the colonies and preaching in a more dramatic and emotional style, accepting everyone into his audiences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Great_Awakening
1800 – 1830’s The Second Great Awakening
The Second Great Awakening (1800–1830s) was the second great religious revival in United States history and consisted of renewed personal salvation experienced in revival meetings. Major leaders included Charles Grandison Finney, Lyman Beecher, Barton Stone, Peter Cartwright, Asahel Nettleton, and James B. Finley. It also encouraged an eager evangelical attitude that later reappeared in American life in causes dealing with prison reform, temperance, women's suffrage, and the crusade to abolish slavery.
[…]
, the renewed interest in religion inspired a wave of social activism. In western New York, the spirit of revival encouraged the emergence of new Restorationist and other denominations, especially the Mormons and the Holiness movement. In the West especially—at Cane Ridge, Kentucky and in Tennessee—the revival strengthened the Methodists and introduced into America a new form of religious expression—the Scottish camp meeting.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening
1850-1900’s The Third Great Awakening
The Third Great Awakening was a period of religious activism in American history from the late 1850s to the 1900s. It affected pietistic Protestant denominations and had a strong sense of social activism. It gathered strength from the postmillennial theology that the Second Coming of Christ would come after mankind had reformed the entire earth. The Social Gospel Movement gained its force from the Awakening, as did the worldwide missionary movement. New groupings emerged, such as the Holiness movement and Nazarene movements, and Christian Science.
[…]
The awakening in numerous cities in 1858 was interrupted by the American Civil War. In the South, on the other hand, the Civil War stimulated revivals, especially in General Robert E. Lee's army. After the war, Dwight L. Moody made revivalism the centerpiece of his activities in Chicago by founding the Moody Bible Institute. The hymns of Ira Sankey were especially influential.
The Gilded Age plutocracy came under harsh attack from the Social Gospel preachers and with reformers in the Progressive Era. Historian Robert Fogel identifies numerous reforms, especially the battles involving child labor, compulsory elementary education and the protection of women from exploitation in factories. [2] In addition there was a major crusade for the prohibition of alcohol. The major pietistic Protestant denominations all sponsored growing missionary activities inside the United States and around the world. Colleges associated with denominations rapidly expanded in number, size and quality of curriculum. The YMCA became a force in many cities, as did denominational youth groups such as the Epworth League (Methodist) and the Walther League (Lutheran).
New sects
Mary Baker Eddy introduced Christian Science, which gained a national following. In 1880, the Salvation Army denomination arrived in America. Although its theology was based on ideals expressed during the Second Great Awakening, its focus on poverty was of the Third. The Society for Ethical Culture was established in New York in 1876 by Felix Adler attracted a Reform Jewish clientèle. Charles Taze Russell Founded a Bible Student Institude that we know know as The Jehovah's Witnesses.
With Jane Addams's Hull House in Chicago as its center, the settlement house movement and the vocation of social work were deeply influenced by the Tolstoyan reworking of Christian idealism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Great_Awakening
1960-1970’s The Fourth Great Awakening
The Fourth Great Awakening was a Christian religious awakening that some scholars - most notably, economic historian Robert Fogel - say took place in the United States in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The terminology is controversial, with many historians believing the religious changes that took place in the USA during these years were not equivalent to those of the first three great awakenings. Thus, the idea of a Fourth Great Awakening itself has not been generally accepted. [1]
Whether or not they constitute an awakening, changes did take place. The "mainstream" Protestant churches weakened sharply in both membership and influence while the most traditional religious denominations (such as the Southern Baptists and Missouri Synod Lutherans) grew rapidly in numbers, spread across the United States, had grave internal theological battles and schisms, and became politically powerful. Other evangelical and fundamentalist denominations also expanded rapidly. At the same time, secularism grew dramatically, and the more conservative churches saw themselves battling secularism in terms of issues such as gay rights, abortion and creationism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Great_Awakening -
181
It looks like I will become an elder this week!
by outofthebox inthat's right guys.
as i told you before, they boe have been considering me for the eldership.
which i don't care for, but since my family is stuck in this cult, i guess i can use the new position to help them see that the holy spirit has nothing to do with me being an elder.
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Pickled
Sorry for the double post, the server seems to be dragging and I think I clicked send twice.
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181
It looks like I will become an elder this week!
by outofthebox inthat's right guys.
as i told you before, they boe have been considering me for the eldership.
which i don't care for, but since my family is stuck in this cult, i guess i can use the new position to help them see that the holy spirit has nothing to do with me being an elder.
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Pickled
Chikikie, then why did you choose to join this website if it doesn't matter to you what the JW believe and if you have no desire whatsoever to discuss anything having to do with the Bible? It is certainly your right and actually none of my business where you do or do not post your thoughts. But you have chosen an unusual forum in which to participate then, and I am now simply curious about your motivation. Answer or not, as I have indicated you are not obligated, but still I remain curious.
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181
It looks like I will become an elder this week!
by outofthebox inthat's right guys.
as i told you before, they boe have been considering me for the eldership.
which i don't care for, but since my family is stuck in this cult, i guess i can use the new position to help them see that the holy spirit has nothing to do with me being an elder.
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Pickled
Chikikie, then why did you choose to join this website if it doesn't matter to you what the JW believe and if you have no desire whatsoever to discuss anything having to do with the Bible? It is certainly your right and actually none of my business where you do or do not post your thoughts. But you have chosen an unusual forum in which to participate then, and I am now simply curious about your motivation. Answer or not, as I have indicated you are not obligated, but still I remain curious.
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181
It looks like I will become an elder this week!
by outofthebox inthat's right guys.
as i told you before, they boe have been considering me for the eldership.
which i don't care for, but since my family is stuck in this cult, i guess i can use the new position to help them see that the holy spirit has nothing to do with me being an elder.
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Pickled
Chikikie, I think the core of my wondering consists of whether or not you believe that the JW is a cult. I know that many people from all the different religions, mainstream and far left included, have backgrounds and personal stories that include various forms of abuse or pain. I can also understand how even at the ages of 32 and 38 your upbringing can play a major role in your decision making process even today.
But as adults, don't we need to consider the qualities of the religion itself as a valid and separate entity? If you only take into consideration what happened in the past as a gauge measuring the validity of a religion, then what you are doing is measuring a religion against things that no longer exist in reality. That allows the current religious structure itself to remain unexamined. Should one really decide for or against a religion based on the behavior of their parents? I think it's safe to say that your answer would be no. If the answer is no, then what that leaves is measuring a religion according to other standards. What are those standards then? Your sister indicated that she keeps returning to the Bible as her guide and source of fascination. If the Bible then is the standard, shouldn't the religion you are considering be a religion that aligns itself exclusively with those same messages contained within that same Bible?
This is the crux of the issue. What others have been trying to point out is the fact that this particular religion, the JW and WTBTS, focuses a very great deal on information that is not found in the Bible at all.
Let me be clearer. There exists a Bible and it is considered the standard for all things pertaining to Jesus Christ, Yahweh, Jehovah, the Lord, the holy spirit, etc. Many religions claim that they are using this same Bible as their same standard or guide for teaching and preaching. If one wants to find out if they are or not, they do a comparison of the teachings of that religion vs. the words in the Bible. An example of this process is when one is trying to prove that a Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost does not exist. What method do they use? They compare the passages in the Bible with the belief in the Trinity in an effort to see of the two align themselves with one another.
I personally gathered a great deal of teachings presented by the WTBTS and compared them with the Bible's contents. Many of those teachings are not found in the Bible. I then decided that this religion did not pass the Biblical scratch and sniff test. That was not my only reason for saying no thank you. After all, there are many teachings out there that also do not align themselves with the Bible so does that make them a cult too? No, that is not what makes a cult a cult. What makes a cult a cult is based on yet another standard. What is that standard? That standard is an accepted definition of the qualities and characteristics of a group of people that indicate they are a cult.
So there is the Bible standard. And then there is also the definition of a cult.
Because the teachings of the WTBTS does not align itself exclusively with the Bible,
and because they have so many of the qualities that match the definition of a cult,
I said no thank you because of both. Isn't that really a Religions 101 method of comparison? -
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It is official. I am an elder now!
by outofthebox init happened last night guys.
i got early to the kh and the boe came to talk to me.
they ask me to read the bible and asked me a couple of questions.
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Pickled
The one big problem with your walking on both sides of the fence at the same time is that, when you slip, your nuts get smashed. It's not only humiliating, but also a great visual for the remaining elders to use as an example illustrating the dangers of independent thinking. Good luck on that "mission."
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181
It looks like I will become an elder this week!
by outofthebox inthat's right guys.
as i told you before, they boe have been considering me for the eldership.
which i don't care for, but since my family is stuck in this cult, i guess i can use the new position to help them see that the holy spirit has nothing to do with me being an elder.
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Pickled
OOTB, what decision is it that you prefer they make?
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181
It looks like I will become an elder this week!
by outofthebox inthat's right guys.
as i told you before, they boe have been considering me for the eldership.
which i don't care for, but since my family is stuck in this cult, i guess i can use the new position to help them see that the holy spirit has nothing to do with me being an elder.
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Pickled
I want to add a brief observation based on your most current post here in response to what I wrote to your sister. You mentioned the posters here and their comments in contrast to your desire to not be dishonest. Just wanted to point out that I in no way suggested that OOTB do anything dishonest. As a matter of fact, it was quite the opposite. I know that you were probably making a blanket statement that covered all in general, but I was the one you were addressing in your post, so I am responding in a self-specific sort of way.