wobble

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Posts by wobble

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  81

  What Actually Made You Leave The Organization?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many of us needed time to get away from this religion.

  i took the course of fading and it's worked pretty well for me.

  after i saw sooooo many silly rules being enforced, i needed to get out!.

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  wobble

  I have to answer the thread title in two ways, Min, because it is not an easy thing to pin down.

  The actual trigger that made me walk away was what I perceived to be the blasphemous position claimed by the GB/FDS, they had totally shoved Jesus aside ,and claimed for themselves His position.

  It suddenly struck me that ,in their constant shrill calls for "submission" and unquestioning "loyalty", they demanded actual worship !

  But also what actually made me leave was my having been an Apostate my whole life, I never agreed with all the teachings, the big spur to research was the realisation that 1914 was just simply not in scripture, never mind about when Jerusalem was destroyed by Good King Neb, the whole 2520 years rubbish is not as credible as Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code!

  The whole WT/JW belief system is a house of cards that soon flutters to the ground as a small breeze of Truth blows upon it.
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  35

  What Do Un-Believers Not Believe?

  by mensa163 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the things that used to annoy me in the new testament was the "believe in jesus" message.

  any explainations seemed fuzzy at best so i decided to take a run at it from behind and find the definintion of an un-believer.here is what i came up with and i welcome other opinions.

  many of the people around jesus were jews, they walked with him, talked with him, listened to his teachings and witnessed his miracles.

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  wobble

  I agree that it is possible to have beliefs that may prove to be true in the future. The scientific community makes progress because of their belief that something may be the case spurs them on to research it, to gather supporting facts, form a hypothesis etc, eventually because of this use of imagination, science moves forward.

  But I was using the word "Belief" in the sense that fundamentalist religionists do, they equate their beliefs with proven truth, which they plainly are not.

  I do not hold such beliefs, or see any valid intellectual reason to do so.

  I am not closed-minded, but simply wait for satisfactory proof before I will trust something as true.
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  15

  how prevalent do you think this attitude is?

  by cptkirk in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  people in congregations around the country (world - i have no idea what goes on in other countries with the jws) staying in the borg for all kinds of backwards reasons?

  how prevalent %% wise do you think this is?

  for example people manifesting "fear of man", fear of being ridiculed by members for leaving, or family reasons, or just to much stock in the organization to take the loss connected with leaving....all of whom really no longer believe the faith the way it's presented?

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  wobble

  I would say that only 1% are actually in to thinking about it deeply, and therfore are hanging in there, for whatever reason, with mainly un-belief as their burden.

  Most have some things they "struggle with" as they say, but they don't struggle with them, they use Cognitive Dissonance techniques, to shelve the problems, and convince themselves the WT has "most of it right".

  Most fit the description that Sizemik honestly gave of himself as a JW, they are "follow the crowd, weak minded, lazy assed non-thinkers".
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  35

  What Do Un-Believers Not Believe?

  by mensa163 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the things that used to annoy me in the new testament was the "believe in jesus" message.

  any explainations seemed fuzzy at best so i decided to take a run at it from behind and find the definintion of an un-believer.here is what i came up with and i welcome other opinions.

  many of the people around jesus were jews, they walked with him, talked with him, listened to his teachings and witnessed his miracles.

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  wobble

  An interesting old thread Ziddina, to take it off course a little, but agreeing with what you say in your post above, I would like to answer the thread title in a rather literal way.

  I am an unbeliever, or more accurately, a Non-believer, I do not "believe" in anything, "belief" being in the sense of faith, trusting something is true with no testable, scientific, forensically satisfying proof.

  I therefore do not give credence to the Jesus of the Bible, even if that Jesus is based on an historical figure, anymore than I give credence to the Robin Hood as depicted in the films of Hollywood.

  I only trust in things that have solid proof, beliefs are for the simple minded.
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  224

  When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed? Why It Matters - What the Evidence Shows

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  obviously 607 is a problem, watchower coming out full forces on this one in the latest public edition.. http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/wp_e_20111001.pdf.

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  wobble

  I can't wait for the second article on this, I am sure it will prove 607 as the date for Jerusalem's destruction by a king who was not yet enthroned, no small feat of intellectual chicanery !

  I wonder how the writing boys sleep at night?
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  9

  Hey gang - was anyone else at Twickenham this year?

  by Sapphy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  pm me if you feel more comfortable.. i was there friday, saturday & sunday for family and friends.

  cant say i listened to it all tho!

  - although i did listen to the last "exciting" talk with the new toe light, and the obligatory beware of apostate talks.... .

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  wobble

  I went to my last DC in 2006, and still get a bad feeling when I think back to what a mind numbing, and bum numbing experience it was.

  Was Twickers this Weekend just gone ?

  Did the young JW's have the usual after DC piss-up and punch-up at the Slug and Lettuce ?

  We had an Apostameet at The Riverside Vauxhall on Sat 30th, well attended by close to forty happy well adjusted people,who all agreed the best thing they ever did was get out of the JW/WT cult.
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  7

  Is It Cognitive Bias or Is It Intentional?

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with this latest wt article dealing with the 587/607 disparity, i truly have to wonder how people who have obviously done much research on the subject can systematically and purposefully either suppress or cast doubt upon all 'negative' evidence, while manipulating facts so they appear to support their stance.. is this a case of cognitive bias("a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" as paul simon said)?.

  or is this a matter of knowing what the facts are and intentionaly misleading people?.

  maybe i already answered my own question.. .

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  wobble

  The Writing department of the WT is filled with "Yes" men who will produce an article as the GB want it. I do not believe they are deluded, you can tell when someone truly believes their own BS, these guys do not.

  They are hard-hearted liars with a contempt for the public, the ordinary JW, and above all, contempt for the truth.
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  18

  how do we exdubs deal with family still in?

  by bigmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would be interested in hearing how other ex's cope with family members--still stuck in.. .

  example--my 90 year old jw dad--been in 50+ years---continued close ties with me since i left 30+ years ago----yet he says he wont talk to his grandson--age 35 ( my son )--who was df 2 years back.

  my never jw (3rd) wife cant understand this.. .

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  wobble

  I just see them when necessary , and we just talk family small talk, but I am not DA or DF, so they don't see a problem, I do, I have nothing in common with them.

  A couple of great thoughts above,

  Shamus: "Wathtower is crack, they are addicted to watchtower...."

  I would have little to do with a family member addicted to crack cocaine, good point.

  Jamie Bowers "The indoctrination is bad enough........ these people are not even aware of the paedophiles in their midst"

  The attempt they will make to indoctrinate your children is rape of the child's mind.
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  17

  You want me to believe...

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how many times did i hear this or its variations from householders and return visits as i preached the jw message:.

  in a nutshell, what keeps most jw's together (and the group as a religion) is the validation of their own ideas.

  hey, at the meetings in those kh's, it didn't matter what anyone else thought.

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  wobble

  What would constitute a miracle to me is if just one WT prediction came true !

  Great thread ATJ.

  "So you want me to believe that Jesus is only the mediator for the 144,000 ?"
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  13

  Famous atheists explain why they don't believe

  by behemot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2011/07/god-evidence-believe-world.

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  wobble

  Thanks behemot, a wonderful and powerful collection of testimonies from some of the leading thinkers of our time.