i had heard about the mormons, but i had not been the least interested in them.
in that 5 month time period from when i prayed to god up until the day i got saved, no mormons or jehovah's witnesses came knocking on my door and they would always come to my house on saturdays.
anna looked up to see her baby brother falling toward her.
Big Mac, God needs to visit The Hearing Centre, they do good digital hearing aids.
Which made me think, the one element that we cannot know for sure is, how many people pray, and get no result ? No answer ?
I bet it is far far more than those who get any kind of answer.
this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.
because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.
awesome!
I agree Des, that Theology courses are a little dated perhaps , if indeed there is any justification for them, as Richard Dawkins said "You might as well have a degree course in Fairyology".
By "honest attempt" I meant by the original Church Fathers and later thinkers, I doubt many of them would have approved of burning at the stake those who did not accept the doctrine, though those in power in the Church did so, the banishment and the ex-communication of dissenters was often a death sentence by starvation.
The history of the Church defending its beliefs is shameful.
when i departed the organization in early 2006, i was giving some serious thought as to why jehovahs witnesses were going through a period of heightened expectation of armageddon.
the district convention theme for 2006 was "deliverance at hand", and it was announced by the governing body that a stinging message would be carried out against "false religion" in the fall through a tract campaign.
certainly throughout the organizations history, convention talks and watchtower publications have always used manipulative tactics in urging a sense of urgency; even in times of relative peace.
It used to be yet another source of annoyance to me, the constant "Put your brown trousers on, the Big A is so close !!!!!!!"
I always viewed the Big A as being only a hiccup in my service to J, like the 70CE events were to Christians then, sure, their " system of things" had ended, but they just carried on being Christians, the "End" held no fear for me, and I rather hoped it was a long way off, so more could be saved, how naive was I ?
The ramping up of hysteria about it certainly seems cyclical, though it was always mentioned, and they seem to be doing it more now, they will be in a fix when 2014 passes of course, any JW with half a sparking brain cell will ask; " 100 years,and two things have happened, not much and bugger-all, what is wrong ?"
remember when japan was held up as the model to follow in terms of zeal in the ministry?
they used to regularly set new marks in pioneer hours and numbers.
the organization used to browbeat the work of other countries like the u.s. basically implying they were slackers compared to the japanese.
I think that the generation that accepted the religion was the one that was close to, or even saw, the slaughter by the A bombs.
Their former religion of the worship of the Emperor was obviously in error, they were ripe for plucking by the WT.
Subsequent generations were not so desperate, Japan's economic miracle was what they grew up with, they were ripe for seeing what the real world was, the advent of the Internet helped too, no doubt.
jehovah's witnessses, (and esp their leadership, the governing body) are guilty of so many things, that one has to be careful of the tabloid rumors swirling around them.. it's probably helpful to review first of all what jw's are guilty of.
they are absolutely guilty in their efforts to control active members under the dictates of the conscience of the gb.
every other watchtower article usually has big time references to how we shouldn't be like those self righteous pharisees in jesus day for all the rules, followed by another article next describing what one can (could) or can't (shouldn't) watch on tv, wear for clothing or hairstyles, etc.
A great post above Jeff, I determined it was a waste of not only my life, but my emotion, to "chase the whale". I will still be subversive in any way I can, but results are simply a bonus.
This is a very important thread as a whole too, as has been said get one fact, or even a nuance wrong, and Dubs will reject your whole argument.
If you are too lazy to check your argument, that it is 100% irrefutable, then don't use it.
please share anything--whatever facts, methods, ideas, etc.--that you found successful in helping other family members or friends to "wake-up" and leave jws.
also, include anythings that you found didn't work or even backfired.
i'm particularly interested in how you were able to reach family members that initially shunned you out of mis-guided loyalty due to wt indoctrination.
Thanks JN Bethel,
I believe this too, that leading a very happy fulfilled life is the best way to discombobulate them.
My wife said to me this morning "When I see "D" at work, (an Elder who works in her office sometimes) he seems afraid of me !"
She could not understand this, as she knows he does not fear she will tackle him on doctrine or anything else, it is merely talking to her he seems to avoid.
I thought for a moment and said "I guess what he fears is finding out that after leaving the WT you are happy, they are taught that leavers cannot be happy"
Showing that life is so much better without the WT is the best anti-(J) witness.
this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.
because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.
awesome!
Dear B.O.R,
We were taught in the JW/WT cult that as the Trinity was "false" any religion that taught it or went along with it was automatically False.
Now this comes from a religion with a leadership who plainly do not understand what the doctrine is in the first place.
I think the doctrine arose from an honest attempt to put in to words what is really ineffable, if "God" exists necessarily we cannot satisfactorily put into words an explanation of His essence.
Most modern Theologians feel that they have moved on from that attempt to explain God, the Trinity explanation was a move forward from the mere anthropomorphic explanations that had sufficed up until that time.
Modern Theology is beyond Trinitarianism, therefore for that reason it is a Waste of Time as the thread title states, it is an out of date discussion.
It sounds to me as though your Church is well up with modern thought.
please share anything--whatever facts, methods, ideas, etc.--that you found successful in helping other family members or friends to "wake-up" and leave jws.
also, include anythings that you found didn't work or even backfired.
i'm particularly interested in how you were able to reach family members that initially shunned you out of mis-guided loyalty due to wt indoctrination.
I tried various things with family members, none have worked so far, and I no longer care too much.
The older ones have six decades of their lives invested in this cult, and seem happy to be JW's, so I let them get on with it.
The younger ones have their own reasons no doubt for sticking with it, they too seem happy enough.
I am here for them if they ever want to discuss matters, but I will not be pro-active in trying to free them anymore, I am now too much of an Ex-JW, it really doesn't matter.
the more i here of this then when these the morons call i have to destroy them with .
jehovah's witness died after family refused blood transfusion.
a young jehovah's witness died after a roller-blading accident because her family refused to let her have a life-saving blood transfusion, an inquest heard today.. a doctor said he pleaded with her family to allow her a transfusion which would have given her a 90% chance of survival.. emelie grootjes, 19, broke both legs after she lost control of her skates going down a hill on july 31. emelie, a dutch student, had been on holiday at the lockley park caravan park, hamworthy, dorset, with her mother, father, brother and sister, all jehovah's witnesses.. the inquest at bournemouth, dorset, was told she was taken to poole general hospital where she died from fat embolism syndrome five days later.. east dorset coroner nigel neville-jones heard that fat and marrow from her shattered bones had entered her blood system before jamming up around her lungs and finally killing her.. dr charles blakeway, a consultant surgeon, described a complicated two-hour operation designed to bind her legs and stop further fat getting into her bloodstream.. he said: "we would normally give a transfusion straight away.
The Ethics Committeeof the British Medical Association take the stance that a patient has the right to refuse treatment regardless of how mad the beliefs of the patient may be.
The mentally ill often contribute to their own demise because of this.
In Law though, here in the U.K it is illegal to assist in the act of suicide, I wonder how the two, seemingly opposing, principles are reconciled ?
hi, so im in bed with food poisoning and bored.
went onto amazon and ordered a sign which reads-.
no canvassers.
Just put up your own sign: " This is an Apostate Home, only Ex-JW's are WELCOME "
That should do the trick, and may spark a bit of conversation with normal people who call so you can make them aware.
