the watchtower teaches that there is no such thing as a spirit or soul leaving the body that can consciously experience anything in heaven unless you are annointed and you die.
and the body certainly couldn't go in their view.
however the apostle paul plainly taught otherwise.
I read this section of Paul's writings and wondered about it when I was a YoungDub, having been raised a JW these words read as very strange to me.
If I recall (I do not have accesss to the WT CD or vols) there was a very unsatisfactory answer to a readers question on this, where they try to talk down the implications of Paul's words, perhaps one of you guys will find it.
do any of you remember the wt putting those words in print ?.
i remember when i read them that i thought "they don't give me a hard-on", now, slow dancing close to a lovely lady, that was different,.
i was pleased to see her !.
Thanks Oz, I think those quotes make my points, racist and don't want any JW to enjoy themselves. I may have conflated some of their words, but I'm sure the "passion arousing" bit was said, and "jungle rythms" if not in the same article.
Anyway, post some rythms folks (Thanks Talesin, Howlin' is great)
do any of you remember the wt putting those words in print ?.
i remember when i read them that i thought "they don't give me a hard-on", now, slow dancing close to a lovely lady, that was different,.
i was pleased to see her !.
Do any of you remember the WT putting those words in print ?
I remember when I read them that I thought "They don't give me a hard-on", now, slow dancing close to a lovely lady, that was different,
I was pleased to see her !
Is this not another example of the WT's blatant racism and its desire to stifle anything joyous ?
Please feel free to post any "passion arousing jungle rythyms" that you think the WT would disaprove of !
believing in a god is a leap of faith.
being an atheist is also a leap of faith, and that goes for the evolutionists too.
i believe in absolute truth as found in the bible.
Dear Vidqun,
May I respectfully suggest you do a little digging on here, it is what I did when still a JW, and I found that , though I had tremendous knowledge of what the Bible says, I knew very little more than that.
For example, for many years I quoted the scripture about the "circle of the earth " then I read an explosive thread entitled "A sphere is not a circle" by a poster of that name I believe, I read Leolaia's and others posts on Daniel and Bible prophecy, I was educated by these wonderful people, I learned the truth.
Please do some reading, by using the search button above, and come back to us if you do not agree with the aforementioned posters, all your points have been dealt with.
Thank you.
i know it is an odd thought but when i was 7 or so and suffering through a meeting, i thought.....'why dont they get them in one room, and get rid of them so that we can live in the new order.
' afterall they are going straight to heaven to rule with jesus....not like death is a bad thing in that case.. it makes me laugh now at the simplistic mind set.
but on some levels it was a genius idea...well it was before i realized that it was a sham..
I never thought of that one, but when talking to a MS some time after I had left, I suggested to him that the best thing he could do for the people he called on was shoot them between the eyes, that way they would go straight to the Noo System, whereas if they rejected his paltry effort to convert them , they would die at Armageddon.
Similar line of thought to yours Diest, but I must steal your idea and mention it to the next JW I talk to !
believing in a god is a leap of faith.
being an atheist is also a leap of faith, and that goes for the evolutionists too.
i believe in absolute truth as found in the bible.
Good lord, these people keep re-hashing the same crap arguments, using the same sloppy, if not perhaps ignorant, language, when it has all been discussed on here until the apologists run off not answering a question that shows them to be in error.
They sometimes then rejoin the thread , ignoring the fact that they have been exposed as a fraud, or rejoin the board under a new name.
I had hopes that one day a decent honest Apologist for the JW's would join here, one who knew what words like "believe and theory (scientific)" mean, and we could have a lively and interesting discussion, but I see no sign of that on this thread, Ho Hum.
post card from cornwall .
two weeks ago i returned from an escape to truro, cornwall the toe of england where i rented an idyllic detached cottage with my other half.
cornwall was bathed in sunshine and god was in his heaven instead of the box i usually keep him in.
Wonderful stuff Gladdy ! don't forget to send us a postcard next time you go on Hols !
We love Cornwall too, I found a number of good beers brewed in St Austel if I recall, tribune ale ??
We found the natives very friendly, despite the mumbling about "Grockles" as we walked away, and the scenery was just stupendous. We'll be back there late summer next year I expect. We are going to hunt for the giant Gogmagog, whatever that is, is it a huge pastie ?
john shelby spong, the retired american bishop, has written a new book.
his article, below, briefly explains the purpose of his new book.
why we must reclaim the bible from fundamentalists.
Thanks Leo,as usual you shine a bright light on what was darkness to us mere mortals !
I have been interested for a long time in the early divergences that took place, and it seems to me that the various "schools" and writings that arose as a response to Jesus are definite proof,not just of his historicity, but the power of his presence (charisma) and teaching.
I still feel too, that the basic premise of the thread title is a good one, "reclaim the bible" and then do as you have done, study the contempory literature alongside it, we certainly then get a much different view of how the christian religion develpoped.
The sad thing is that we probably have very little of the thought and writings of the time that has come down to us, only what the church wnted us to have, but discoveries such as Nag Hammadi may happen in the future and spread more light on this fascinating time.
romans 1:7. new international version.
"to all in rome who are loved by god and called to be saints: .
grace and peace to you from god our father and from the lord jesus christ.".
A JW cannot understand the concept of "Grace" as plainly presented in scripture for the reasons above, it has been hidden from them by Freddie Franz's god-awful "translation" and it is denied them by the concept of having to go "through" the FDS/GB to get anything from God at all.
Grace (Gk. Charis) as given by God and by Jesus (see Sabs quotes above) means that if you are given it, you are clothed with the beauty and joy that Jesus had when on earth.
Sadly, JW's are denied this beauty and joy by the doctrines they support and believe in. People even children, were drawn to Jesus because of the grace he had, the ineffectiveness of JW's evangelising shows they do not have "Grace", which is sad, the vast majority of them are good kind people who deserve it, but their leaders make sure it cannot get to them. The GB "shuts up the way to the kingdom of heaven".
i was just wondering if ministers of religion in the uk have to have the same checks done like the one in australia?
the elders and ministerial servant's and all the members who are baptised are all ordained ministers for the wtbts.
they all have contact with children and as such all of them could be a pedo and hide it from the elders at the hall.
I have long said that this needs sorting out here in England/Wales and N.Ireland. I think a good time would be on the back of the ruling when we get it from OZ.
Regardless of the outcome of the case, it will be a good way of getting the media spotlight trained on the terrible situation within the JW organisation here, and no doubt many other places around the World.
Once the principle is established that ministers are required to be CRB checked, (so at a minimum include MS's if not all JW's, they are all ministers so they claim),once that has been done, we still need to campaign for them to actually have an active working programme to protect children and the vulnerable.
We had an Elder who preyed upon the mentally unstable young sisters , they were all adult, not children, no CRB check would have shown anything on him at the time.
CRB checks alone are not enough, as any responsible body in the U.K knows, a stringent policy demonstrating itself in best practice is required.
