Posts by Galileo

38

How Did Your JW Wife or Husband Leave You?

by new boy in

inspiried by other post and threads....and the love to type.. after going from being a self rightious pioneer and bethelite, to someone who had major doubts.my years drifted by me.

i had been a watchtower slave for over 50 years.

one day at a time, i sold my soul.

Galileo

Thank you very much for sharing your experience. It is all too familiar. Many of us have bought our freedom at great cost. But I agree, it is worth the price.

25

My life - A brief history. Part 3 (conclusion)

by Galileo in

this is part 3 and the conclusion to my journey out.

part 1 can be found here, and part 2 is here.. .

truth.

Galileo

It's apparent that although your mind is discounting Biblical authority and regulation of living, your emotion still functions with some subservience to it, don't you think?
Maybe this is the trickiest thing to be sure about - that your feeling and thought are now deprogrammed beyond the influences of a work you deem flawed and thus mere advice, to a point where you are sure you can construct a replacement 'thought-feeling soul' to progress and function on what it does now deem acceptable within its own logic/essence!?

I'm not entirely certain I understand this completely, perhaps you could clarify. It is certain that some parts of my personality were formed by the Judeo-Christian ethics and morals of the bible, and the WTB&TS interpretation thereof. Some of it I'm still working on de-weeding from my subconscious, like my gut reaction to politics and holidays. Other parts I'm sure I will carry with me always, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I believe religion has evolved largely as a way of teaching morals and ethics, and while many of the stories may not be true, many of the lessons are still valuable. I don't believe, for instance, that Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt, but I believe not looking back at what could have been once you've decide on a course of action is good council. Does that answer your question?

25

My life - A brief history. Part 3 (conclusion)

by Galileo in

this is part 3 and the conclusion to my journey out.

part 1 can be found here, and part 2 is here.. .

truth.

Galileo

If you could magically roll the clock back to that fateful night in 2005 and have a chance to try again, is there anything you would do differently?

This is a question I ask myself often. I honestly don't think so. Not that I think I handled the situation perfectly, but I think the outcome would have been the same because of the person my wife is, and even the mistakes I made were important for me to make. I hope that makes sense.

25

My life - A brief history. Part 3 (conclusion)

by Galileo in

this is part 3 and the conclusion to my journey out.

part 1 can be found here, and part 2 is here.. .

truth.

Galileo

I think your 3-part essay has finally inspired me to write my own chronicle of leaving the faith.

Please do. I look forward to reading it. Reading the experiences of others who left gave me comfort and it was with the hope of helping others grappling with leaving that I decided to record my own experience.

25

My life - A brief history. Part 3 (conclusion)

by Galileo in

this is part 3 and the conclusion to my journey out.

part 1 can be found here, and part 2 is here.. .

truth.

Galileo

Just one question - can you do the fandango?

HaHa! That took me a minute. No, I'm not much of a dancer. Party on Dozy.

25

My life - A brief history. Part 3 (conclusion)

by Galileo in

this is part 3 and the conclusion to my journey out.

part 1 can be found here, and part 2 is here.. .

truth.

Galileo

You write from the heart, Galileo. Thank you for sharing a part of you. I assume your wife and you are still together. With no way out unless one commits adultery? How long will you be able to live that way? Her not speaking to you. Leaving literature for you to see. That is so sad. Do you hope that maybe...just maybe one day, she will see?

How long will I be able to live this way? I don't know. We've been seperated now for over a year. I think I will file for divorce before too long. Obviously I don't feel the need to wait for her to be unfaithful. I just haven't had the desire to pursue a relationship with anyone else yet. We were together a long time, it's hard to adjust to a new situation. Do I hope that someday she will see? I don't know. I want her to be happy. Even if she left tomorrow, I wouldn't be getting back together with her. I have forgiven her, but the way she dealt with all of this destroyed my feelings for her. Witness or not, all I was asking for was intellectual freedom, and she couldn't even grant me that.

Thank you everyone for your continued interest. I realise this has been kind of a downer. I'm considering writing an epilogue to let you all know where I'm at now, in order to end on somewhat of a more positive note.

25

My life - A brief history. Part 3 (conclusion)

by Galileo in

this is part 3 and the conclusion to my journey out.

part 1 can be found here, and part 2 is here.. .

truth.

Galileo

This is part 3 and the conclusion to my journey out. Part 1 can be found here, and part 2 is here.

Truth

I said before that I never loved my wife. Maybe that isn’t entirely true. If I hadn’t loved her, how could it have hurt me so much to see her in pain? Perhaps it is better not to define such a complex relationship as marriage with such a simple word as love. She was my constant companion, my partner, the person that gave my life meaning. We started as friends, built a life as friends, and remained as friends until that night in the fall of 2005. I would have stayed with her the rest of my life. If that wasn’t love, I thought it was at least enough.

There is much from that time, that first long night and the countless conversations that followed, that have been lost to the passage of time. That’s a blessing for me. What I remember the most is the pain, unbearable and endless. The pain, and the look on her face. It was the look of her heart, not just breaking, but dying. I will remember that look always.

As for the specifics of what we talked about, what I remember are fragments. Some of this was said that first night, some in the days and weeks that followed. I told her that I couldn’t give her specifics, that I didn’t want to damage her faith. I knew I couldn’t convince her that the Society was not the truth. I told her that I hadn’t believed for a long time, but that I had tried to go on as if I did, for the sake of our marriage. I told her that I had gotten painfully sad, that the sadness wouldn’t go away anymore, and that I had even considered suicide.

She asked why I hadn’t spoken to the elders. She asked what I believed. I told her I wasn’t sure, that what I believed was irrelevant, as the issue was whether or not the WTS had the truth. I told her you don’t have to know what is true in order to show that something is demonstrably false. Finally, with tears streaming down her eyes, she said: “You are smarter than me. I’ve always known that. It’s part of what I loved about you, why I married you. How can I believe if you don’t?” This may sound as though she were ready to believe I was right about the WTS, that she was ready to hear what I had to say. But that wasn’t it at all. What she was actually saying was that she didn’t trust her own thinking faculties, as she and all witnesses had been trained not to. If she stayed with me, I would trick her into believing my lies with my clever and wicked mind. If there was any doubt, what she said next cemented it: “You’re depressed because you have a demon.”

What followed this were the most painful two years of my life. At first there was her attempt at understanding, of trying to help: the constant questions that circled around the issues we both knew couldn’t be discussed outright, the Awake magazines laying open on the counter to the page that just happened to have an article purporting to deal with science, the multiple Elders meetings.

The Elders meetings. This seems like something that would be of interest here, so I will take a moment to describe how these transpired.

First there were the local elders, one of which had been a Circuit Overseer. I didn’t want to be disfellowshipped, so I was careful not to mention specific Watchtower doctrines. Instead I brought up my doubts about the bible itself (the irony of this is not lost on me). I told them I was having a hard time coming to grips with some archaeological evidence I’d come across. I started with a discussion about modern archaeological techniques. I discussed how archaeologists can find campsites from thousands of years ago where two men and a camel spent the night. They can find the holes where they pitched their tent. They can examine the animal bones left behind and tell what they ate. I told them how archaeologists can use infrared cameras and follow ancient trade routes from a helicopter. Etc. etc.

I then hit them with the hammer: If they can find all of this, why is there not a single shred of archaeological evidence for the Exodus, the largest population movement in the entire bible, and one of the largest migrations in all of history. Two or three million people, wandering the desert for decades, camping, eating, leaving waste, burying their dead, having babies. Not one single shred of evidence left behind.

Why, for that matter, isn’t there any evidence that there were ever a large number of Jews in Egypt? The Egyptians left a mountain of written work and artifacts, from kings lists down to recipes and letters written from young children to their parents. Yet not in any of these records do they mention their Hebrew slaves. Ever. The bible tells us that at the time of the Exodus, there were between two and three million Jews in Egypt. Yet Archaeology tells us that at their peak, there weren’t ever more than eight hundred thousand Egyptians (in fact they say that that the area couldn’t possibly support a population significantly larger than this). So if we take these both to be literally true, the Jews in Egypt outnumbered the Egyptians at least two and a half to one. They would have been everywhere, and the Egyptians would have been the minority. For centuries. Yet no one ever mentioned them, and they left no artifacts behind. Could they explain this? It would do wonders for the doubts I was trying to overcome if they could.

The answer they gave was exactly what I had expected: stunned silence, followed by changing the subject as quickly as possible. It was clear neither of them had ever heard any of this before. I think they were expecting something more along the lines of “Why do we keep getting new light?” or “I’m sometimes questioning whether this is the truth”. “Why do bad things happen to good people?”perhaps? Something they could at least offer some sort of canned response to. What I got from both of them was along the lines of “I’ll do some research and get back to you” (neither ever did), followed with anecdotes about why they believe this is the truth. Their anecdotes were so trite I won’t bore you with them. They were the same sort of superstitious reasoning I would’ve gotten from any Mormon, Baptist, or any other religion, and I told them so. If anecdotes were my bag, I could’ve gotten some much more impressive ones from the Scientologists.

When I related to my wife what had happened, she asked why I hadn’t asked any of the other issues I was “struggling” with, why I had just focused on that one. I told her if they didn’t have an answer for that, the other questions don’t matter. Those facts are enough to discredit the entire bible, and therefore arguments about how best to interpret a fiction are academic. In truth I could overlook that lack of evidence, after all “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”, but it would require some powerful contrary evidence for me to do so, and I have found none. There are a myriad other reasons I disbelieve the bible in general and the Witnesses in particular.

Next came correspondence with the Circuit Overseer. He could get no further than the local brothers, and he referred me to an elder that he knew in another state that “had a scientific mind”. I found that brother to be incredibly arrogant. He seemed to be used to being the “smart guy” and didn’t like his assertions to be questioned. When he couldn’t answer my questions, he wrote my wife behind my back and told her she should leave me on the grounds of apostasy. In doing this, he revealed to her a great deal that I myself had kept from her in order to protect her spirituality, things I had said in confidence that I had never revealed to anyone save the particular elders who were trying to “help” me.

After that, she gave up on me. I could see it in her eyes. Her love for me was gone. She began coming home later and later, going directly to bed without saying a word unless I spoke to her. Eventually she developed a relationship with a very attractive younger ministerial servant. In him I know she saw the man I once was, because that’s exactly what I saw when I looked at him. After a few months of this, when I began to realize how close they were becoming, I asked her to put an end to it for the sake of our marriage. She moved out instead.

To the best of my knowledge she has never physically cheated on me. I believe she would tell me if she had. Nor have I cheated on her. We are still married on paper, although we never speak.

I didn’t then nor do I now blame her for the irrational way that she reasons. She’s not stupid, far from it, she’s quite brilliant in many ways. I was also programmed from birth with the circular, spiraling, feedback-loop logic of The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. Getting free was a painful and arduous task that cannot be forced on someone. I don’t believe you can free anyone. They have to free themselves. The best we can do is offer them information and support when they are ready for it. Many never will, and for the most part, that’s not their fault. As someone once said; “We are victims of victims.” Those who put all this in motion are long dead. Who is left to be angry with?

So that’s my story. I’m sorry if it was a bit long. I had no idea when I started this just how much I had to say. Thank you all for letting me be a part of your community. –Galileo

383

Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(

by reniaa in

i've been a faded jw for 10 years i left because of my failed first marriage, i'm no hypocrite and realised i had left completely so i embraced the world and dived in, only christmas and birthdays i could not get into, they were too foreign to me having never celebrated them, like if i suddenly tried to do ramadan or something like that.. 1/ all the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, i've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.. 2/ i got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, i got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later i am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and i was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.. 3/ parents-in-law!

i have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, i had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.. 4/ i miss the honest friendships of the truth, i had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after i left but i was determined to fade so moved away completely, but i find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( i've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.. 5/ my recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, i thought why not find out about it, harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when i said to him how does he clear that with god, he replies "as long as i repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.. 6/ i recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, it wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in god, it's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it.

they said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and i thought "well if this is reality i've had enough of it".

Galileo

"what can the world offer me that is good now?"

A more relavent question, if you are in search of a meaningful life, is what can I offer the world that is good?

You have been offered some good advice here. Have you noticed a recurring theme? Let me echo it, as it was my first thought as I read your post. Therapy could be very helpful. I'm not advising something I haven't done myself. Therapy helped me a great deal. We have been mentally conditioned to accept a certain view of reality. Evidence of it is all over your posts. If I could offer one modest piece of advice to get you started on recovery, it would be this: never, ever, ever use the terms "the World" or "the Truth" again to refer to Witnesses and non-Witnesses. It is a mind control technique that puts you into an us vs. them mentality. It is very 1984. Their religion is not the Truth, I and many others can prove it in short order.

queeniedog, you have already gone against your masters even being here. For this I congratulate you. Here is an exercise for you: google 587 B.C.E. Or go to your local library, college, Barnes & Noble, museum curator, or any other reputable source you like and try and find out the date for the Babylonian exile, and their reasons for so dating. Here's a hint: a lot of this info used to be in the Aid book. When they released the Insight books, they took it all out. It was the single largest revision. I guess you didn't need to be able to make up your own mind based on, you know, evidence. Have fun with that.

31

My life - a brief history. Part 2

by Galileo in

this is part 2 of my journey out.

part 1can be found here.. .

choosing madness.

Galileo

Sorry to everyone for the delay of part 3. The flu has knocked me down hard and it's hard to get anything done, let alone write. Also it's the hardest part to write because it's the most painful part to relive. But it will be posted soon.

31

My life - a brief history. Part 2

by Galileo in

this is part 2 of my journey out.

part 1can be found here.. .

choosing madness.

Galileo

Oompa, it's nice to know others have gone through what you've gone through. I just wanted to point out, however, that although apostasy isn't considered grounds for a "scriptural" divorce, "spiritual endangerment" is recognized as grounds for a "scriptural" separation.