Posts by Galileo

while playing grand theft auto 4 today i discovered that in the mock new york city of the game called liberty city there is a building exactly where the watchtower would be called instead "clock tower".

each place has a mock name i guess to avoid trouble.

outside of the buildings are shipping carts full of boxes which i guess have magazines and books inside them.

Galileo

GTA IV is awesome! I'm gonna try and find this now! Where's my rocket launcher!

27

The Rapidly Emerging "NEW BREED" of Jehovah's Witnesses

by kool aid man06 in

jw
friends

the "ever-changing doctrine" of the watchtower org.

is now creating an "incubator of doubts" that seems to be "hatching" this so-called "new breed" of witnesses.

watchtower publications written with purposeful ambiguous articles seems to be allowing many witnesses to become extremely liberal in their way of thinking.the watchtower org's view, as of late, in making more things a conscience matter, blood issues, voting, alternative service, organ transplants, attending weddings and funerals in churches, celebrating holidays, etc.

Galileo

Galileo - please make a plan to get yourself and your social group out of this cult. If you don't change anything, you will be in the same position forever. Don't waste your life with one foot in a cult - or if I'm jumping in too hard here let me know :-)

I appreciate your concern. Yes, I have a plan. I'm not going to keep one foot in forever. There are specific reasons why I can't just walk away immediately, but by this time next year I'll be one hudred percent out, and I can't wait. Hopefully I'll be able to open some more eyes in the meantime. I think so.

67

Atheist in U.S. poll 4% ------ Atheist on JWD 90 % ?

by caliber in

( one recent post indicated this 90% figure) .

i don't wish to debate the pro's and con's of atheism, just help me understand your personal.

reasonings for this huge difference in figures.

Galileo

Not all Catholics believe in evolution. And the ones who do don't always have Darwin's take on it.

The same is true of atheists. I was speaking of the Catholic church's official stance, straight from the pope. And I agree, Catholic Charities do a lot of good. I do wish they'd stop teachings that spread AIDS in th third world, though. But on the whole there are several catholic charities I would have no problem giving money to.

67

Atheist in U.S. poll 4% ------ Atheist on JWD 90 % ?

by caliber in

( one recent post indicated this 90% figure) .

i don't wish to debate the pro's and con's of atheism, just help me understand your personal.

reasonings for this huge difference in figures.

Galileo

I am saying that if you get youself into messes, you can't always expect God to bail you out.

On this we can agree. Although I would take out the word always.

67

Atheist in U.S. poll 4% ------ Atheist on JWD 90 % ?

by caliber in

( one recent post indicated this 90% figure) .

i don't wish to debate the pro's and con's of atheism, just help me understand your personal.

reasonings for this huge difference in figures.

Galileo

If someone espouses the "survival of the fittest" thinking, it's less likely they will spend a lot of time figuring out ways to unite people in helping fellow humans who are in some dire need or strait.

Survival of the fittest is somewhat of a misnomer, and at any rate, is a mechanism that has been proposed through which evolution works, not an atheistic mindset. The Catholic church, which you seem to be fond of, officially accepts evolution, survival of the fittest and all. They also have the additional mindset that people who die are in a better place. They are the religion that gave us the phrase "Kill them all, let god sort them out" or "Kill them all, god will know his own" during the crusades, after all. Atheists, meanwhile, tend to believe this life is all we have so we should make the most of it. For many, myself icluded, this includes trying to help the less fortunate.

67

Atheist in U.S. poll 4% ------ Atheist on JWD 90 % ?

by caliber in

( one recent post indicated this 90% figure) .

i don't wish to debate the pro's and con's of atheism, just help me understand your personal.

reasonings for this huge difference in figures.

Galileo

FlyingHigh: First, let me just make clear that I wouldn't have dissed your therapists comments if this were a thread about being comforted by Jesus or whatever. But this is a thread about atheists, so I felt like it was fair game. I have nothing against you personally, you seem like a sweet woman. I'm actually a pretty nice guy myself. However:

Did you think she meant that man could only learn from pain? I can't believe you really thought she said that or I meant that you could only learn from suffering. You are taking my comment out of context. We were speaking of the scrapes humankind gets its self into.

No, I didn't think that's what she meant or what she or you think. But that's what she said. She said:

If he stopped everything painful, humankind wouldn't learn a blasted thing.

Furthermore, if that isn't the only way to learn, then she has no point. Her point only makes sense if that's the only option. If there are other ways that we could learn, or that god could teach us, then we're right back to the unspoken question that lies at the heart of that satement: "why does god allow suffering." In order to be accurate, since you have just admitted that you realize and believe she also realizes that there are other ways to learn she would have to say: "If god stopped everything painful, we would have to learn without pain." Although I suppose that doesn't really explain anything. But then, neither did her original statement, as I already pointed out.

Of course, in this world, where god doesn't intervene, then going through suffering teaches us to deal with suffering, which is necessary. But if god did intervene, then learning to deal with suffering would be unnecessary. I know what she meant, but I was pointing out that what she said was utterly illogical and actually makes god look bad, in my opinion.

67

Atheist in U.S. poll 4% ------ Atheist on JWD 90 % ?

by caliber in

( one recent post indicated this 90% figure) .

i don't wish to debate the pro's and con's of atheism, just help me understand your personal.

reasonings for this huge difference in figures.

Galileo

If he stopped everything painful, humankind wouldn't learn a blasted thing.

This is typical apologist nonsense. I would never go to that therapist again. People have learned plenty that didn't require suffering. What kind of suffering was required to learn the shape and size of the earth? Gravity? Quantum Mechanics? Did Niels Bohr break his arm and think to himself "Damn that smarts! But on the upshot, I suddenly understand the structure of an atom!"

What kind of pain did I have to endure to learn that I love literature and movies? Or that I'm not a big fan of circuses? Are you going to tell a child with MS that god gave it to them because he wanted them to learn something? I'm glad god doesn't want me to learn that lesson.

Sure, there are things we wouldn't learn if god prevented pain, namely, we wouldn't learn how to deal with painful things! But then, if there were no pain, we wouldn't need to. This kind of reasoning, while I grant it may provide comfort to those with a certain unquestioning mindset, simply does not hold up to scrutiny.

67

Atheist in U.S. poll 4% ------ Atheist on JWD 90 % ?

by caliber in

( one recent post indicated this 90% figure) .

i don't wish to debate the pro's and con's of atheism, just help me understand your personal.

reasonings for this huge difference in figures.

Galileo

I'd like to know if the atheists group together and do these kinds of things for their fellow humans?

I think you are making the mistake that many make, that is that atheists are a unified group, like a religious group. That is not the case. We do not tend to have a broad social network and hierarchy complete with massive donations in order to easily set up a charity. There is no atheist group that has aywhere near the resources of the Catholic Church. Also, if I as an atheist wish to donate to, say, a charity set up to feed the homeless, it would be much simpler to give to an established charity, even if they are religious, than to found a competing charity just to have the moniker of an "atheist charity."

That being said, there are many atheist and secular charties. Here is a partial list I got from richarddawkins.net :

Fred Hollows Foundation... This Foundation has worked in 29 countries and has restored sight to more than a million people. Even after he was diagnosed with cancer Fred continued with his work. He died 11 years ago. Fred was very outspoken on his atheist beliefs. His widow, Gabi Hollows took over the Foundation after his death.

S.H.A.R.E....Secular Humanist Aid and Relief Effort, a 25-year old organization.

Food banks... such as Second Harvest

Toy-for-Tots

The Nature Conservancy

Planned Parenthood

The American Cancer Society

Project Gutenberg.....they distribute free books (free knowledge, essentially) online, and have a Paypal link for donations.

The Zoological Society of San Diego..... which has done great things such as help to reintroduce the extinct-in-the-wild Arabian Oryx and is in progress on a successful-looking program to reintroduce California Condors.

The World Wildlife Fund..... a good one. Only 5% of funds go to admin costs. Committed to working with the many indigenous peoples of the world.

Rethink..... Working together to help everyone affected by severe mental illness recover a better quality of life.

The American Foundation for AIDS Research

Heifer Project International..... which provides income-producing animals to promote self-reliance for families and communities in poverty-stricken areas. Families that receive gifts of animals are required to pass on one or more of their animal's offspring to other needy families. Only 6% goes to admin costs, although fund raising costs are a healthy chunk at nearly 20%.

Mama's Kitchen..... "Nurturing the heart, one meal at a time."