Posts by HB

71

I Hate the Sound of the Word Jehovah

by cofty in

listening to clips of the latest manipulative video from the watchtower i realised how much i detest that word - jehovah.. sometimes i have thought it would be interesting to observe a meeting or part of a convention.

every time i heard that word i would be unable to stay in my seat.. i have a visceral reaction every time i hear it.

it stands for so much that i have contempt for.

HB

I have always hated the sound of the word Jehovah, and I’ve never been a JW, never been in a Kingdom Hall or been personally affected by the JW religion.

Reading through the above posts so far, and focusing on just posters that don’t like the word Jehovah, people seem to fall into three categories…..

1. Some dislike the word just because of what it is associated with and the bad memories.

2. Some dislike it mainly because of the actual physical sound of the word itself.

3. Some dislike it for both reasons 1 and 2 which have become inextricably intertwined in their brain.

People who are not particularly interested in language probably react to Cofty’s question in a completely different way than those who enjoy words for their own sake.

We mostly all know which type we are…. If poetry leaves you cold, you have no interest in etymology and think literature is a waste of time, that’s fine, you will be in the first category.

You probably think those of us in the second category that can happily spend an afternoon reading a dictionary or thesaurus, or wax lyrical over Shakespeare or Tennyson are mad.

My husband has no concept of what I am talking about when I say a word is beautiful or ugly. To him words are just utilitarian collections of letters and allow him to communicate, they have no other value. (He’s great at maths though!)

For me, the word Jehovah doesn’t have deep connotations or bad memories and I haven't been conditioned into looking at it in a certain way. It doesn’t even create a particular image in my head like the word ‘God’ or ‘Jesus’ does. Neither do I have a problem with the way it looks when written on a page.

But I intensely dislike the sound as I say it or when I hear it spoken by someone else.

It’s bad enough when said by an American or Australian, but for me it’s particularly bad when pronounced by someone with a ‘cut glass’, upper class English accent. (I'm English.)

The reason I don’t like the sound is very personal. Others may feel the opposite.

For me, Jehovah doesn’t roll of the tongue smoothly.

For a start, the sound ‘Jee’ or ‘Jeh’ involves effort. Depending on your accent and how fast you speak, the lips form either a slight open-mouthed pout or a kind of grimace with the tip of the tongue quickly touching the top of the palate. It's a jerky, alert sound, not soothing. (Say ‘Jee’ out loud then contrast for example with the easier, softer, pleasant sounds ‘mmm’ or ‘ooooh’)

The ‘Jeh’ sound doesn’t flow nicely into the next syllable ‘ho’ as the lips have to move to a new very different shape. The tongue moves to the base of the mouth, and the whole jaw needs to move to make the sound.

Then the next syllable ‘vah’ again doesn’t flow smoothly from the previous one and is a spiky, ugly, aggressive sound which is almost spat out.

There are many websites where people discuss phonaesthetics and there are countless lists of people’s favourite and most hated words. Haven't seen Jehovah mentioned in any lists good or bad.

A few words sound good but depict something unpleasant and some are ugly but describe something lovely. But in many cases, cacophonous words describe something distasteful or bad and mellifluous words describe something pleasurable or good.

E.g.: ‘glutton’, ‘grudge’ ‘bulbous’ and ‘phlegm’ are ugly sounds whereas ‘serendipity’, ‘ephemeral’ or ‘luminescence’ are flowing.

I like the sound of Dionysius, Vishnu, Zeus, Athena and Aphrodite, but not Buddha, Bacchus, Thor, Marduk or Mercury. Or Jehovah

There is a kind of very mild synaesthesia going on where the stimulation of the part of the brain that deals with processing sound creates an involuntary reaction in a different part of the brain which deals with pleasure and dislike.

Lastly, if you don’t know about the ‘Bouba/Kiki effect’, it's interesting. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect

155

Headline: "Islamic Invasion: Europe now scrambles for guns." How true is this?

by cappytan in

jw
friends

a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.

world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.

so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?

HB

Returning to the topic of the original post, apart from the long term political, moral and ethical considerations of migration, there are more immediate logistical problems to consider.

I spoke to a friend in Munich who is a nurse to ask if she could confirm the truth or otherwise of an article I read, which stated there is a serious strain on relations between migrants and health workers in Germany.
My friend confirmed that the situation in her hospital and others she knows of is pretty bad but it is not getting reported in the German media.

Apparently, on arrival in Germany, a large number of migrants are going to clinics and hospitals for treatment but they refuse to be seen or treated by female staff. However there are not enough male staff to cope and tensions flare.

A fair number of migrants present with exotic diseases which European doctors are not trained to diagnose or treat. Others, particularly from Africa, have Aids, TB and syphilis. These problems are stretching the German health system to its limits.

In some areas, police are having to guard clinics, hospitals, and large pharmacies, because violence has been erupting when migrants are told they have to pay cash for prescriptions.

The threat of violence against staff is quite a major problem. A doctor and two nurses were seriously wounded in one of the top pediatric units in the country when, despite the best efforts of the medical team, a migrant child died. In another case a migrant threw a bag of syphilis infected urine in a nurse’s face.

It is easy to sensationalise these kind of incidents but the problem that causes tension and anger is that in both these cases, the media did not report the crime and the perpetrator was not arrested.

However the point is that in spite of this level of threat, my friend confirmed that at least in her hospital, the vast majority of health workers are not even remotely considering arming themselves, but are continuing to do their job in a professional manner in difficult circumstances.

35

Hey! Wanted to say Hi!

by Miss Worldly in

jw
friends

hey!

i've been hanging around her for a while.

this is the third attempt at my 'hello'.

HB

I'm also a Mrs Worldly, not only have I never been a JW, nor has my husband or any of my close or extended family. I came here in 2008 with a question about a friend who was getting sucked into JW land, & when she was eventually rescued I just stayed here as I enjoyed the interesting debates amongst some very intelligent people. Like Miss Worldly & others, I've learnt a llot I now feel able to debate with JWs when I meet them. I also know other 'world lies' who have often read this site but never joined. I don't post much but with only one unfortunate exception, I've always .been made to feel welcome. Its a great place here for non JWs as well as ex JWs

18

Just recovering from a 'Mormon Mind Melt' ...

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was in town centre about an hour ago to buy a shirt and tie for an upcoming job interview when i was stopped by a youngish, clean cut american young man (20-ish) in a cheap suit.

my heart sank as i thought it was local jws.

to my slight relief, it was mormons!

HB

My sister and I chatted with two young Mormons on the High Street in Romford, Essex.

One was American with stunning ‘Hollywood A-list’ good looks, age about 28, tall and slim; the other was a quiet red-head from Sweden with a chunky build, maybe aged about 20. The good looking one did most of the talking. I strongly suspected that the Swedish guy had doubts about his faith and was not enjoying missionary service.

A few years ago, I would not have had a clue how to talk with them, (I've never been a JW) but regularly reading debates on this forum has taught me a lot. I still have much to learn and I don’t know the bible like most of you here do, so I steer clear of deep biblical debate, but I enjoyed the challenge of making the Mormons think. My sister is a Humanist like me, and although she has no experience at all of debating religious issues, she is very chatty and sociable.

We talked for about half an hour, it was very friendly. During the conversation, my sister asked the Mormons why they dressed so stuffily in suits, and suggested they would have better success engaging with people if they looked more normal, especially in Romford. She recommended T-shirt and jeans which would be appropriate for their age and the town. The older one said their suits were a symbol to demonstrate their respect for a righteous life style, the younger one just looked embarrassed and uncomfortable as if he’d love to rip his jacket and tie off there and then.

My sister invited them to come out with us later that evening to join a group of our friends in the pub, explaining that although we would be having fun, no one would be unrighteous. The American naturally declined the invitation, but we just knew the Swede would have loved to join us, his eyes gave it away.

We covered several topics but the one I recall best was asking if they had ever personally experienced a prayer being answered. The examples they gave were not impressive, and quite superficial, like a headache being cured, but they assure me others had had miraculous answers to prayer.

I asked them why God would take the time to cure a slightly inconvenient headache but fail to answer prayers for starving people in the developing world. The good looking Mormon said that if God didn’t answer such prayers, it must be his will for these people to starve. My sister asked how they could worship a god who behaved like that. I asked if he would be prepared to tell that to the mother of a baby in arms who was dying of mal-nutrition.

The answer he gave stunned me: He said the baby would be better off dead as it would go to Heaven and therefore bypass all the suffering it would have endured on the earth. I gasped slightly and said derisively, in that case, as an act of kindness, why don’t we just go and kill all the babies and young children in the third world right now to save them the bother of living?

The Swede hung his head and was staring at the floor, looking really uncomfortable, and shifting from foot to foot. The American looked confused and embarrassed, and just said that was not quite what he meant. However I knew the point was made so I didn’t spoil the friendly atmosphere by pushing it further and we thanked them for an interesting chat and moved on.

29

Need clarification from someone who speaks JW: What is an "apostate" ...or... an "apostate website?"

by Faithful Witness in

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jul/27/jehovahs-witnesses-destroyed-notes-about-child-sex-abuse-inquiry-told.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/27/us-australia-religion-sexcrimes-iduskcn0q10ih20150727.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/28/australia-jehovah-witness-sex-abuse-hannigan-lklv.cnn.

HB

I've never been a JW & never even been inside a Kingdom Hall, but having learnt enough over the years of reading this forum to have successfully debated with a JW elder at my door for 30 mins & have him admit he didn't have answers to my questions, I feel proud to call myself an 'honorary apostate'.

5

let us have some poetry

by Sabin in

jw
friends

there was a little girl who had a little curl right in the middle of her forehead and when she was good she was criticized anyway.

(elan golomb, ph.d., trapped in the mirror.

roses are red, violets are blue, i love sex, how about you.

HB

Sing a song o’ sixpence

A pocket full of sighs,

Four and twenty Elders

Telling theocratic lies.

But when the RC was opened

The victims began to sing,

Now wasn’t that a fine witness

Before the judge to bring!

The GB were in their Counting House

Counting all their money,

The Branch were in the dog-house

Not finding it very funny.

The JWs were on Facebook

Claiming evidence is a lie,

When down comes our Angus

And hangs them out to dry!

111

"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?

by cofty in

the children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.

he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.

if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.

HB

A friend discovered after 25 years of marriage, that her husband had been cheating on her. After a brief separation of six months, once his adulterous affair was over, she told all her family, friends and acquaintances that she "forgave" him and he moved back in. Everyone said how noble she was to forgive.

But just a few of us who know the couple well are aware that In reality she hasn't forgiven him in her heart and feels justified in exacting revenge in hidden and subtle ways. He pays daily for his past actions and his life is now not his own. In public she puts on a pious face of togetherness but in private she gives him hell. He is long-suffering and accepts the way he is treated.

The wife gained much public praise for her 'selfless' forgiveness but in actual fact I know it was not authentic. I believe she did care about him and I'm glad they got back together. But it was also in her interest financially and for other practical reasons to stay married.

I don't like to be cynical particularly about grieving individuals, but I would be very interested to know whether, when they are not in the public limelight, the children who have forgiven the killer of their parents consistently also forgive others in all circumstances.

I hope it is genuine and I'm sure the admiration and commendation they have been given, particularly from Christians for bearing witness to their faith, is a comfort, but seeing the hypocrisy of my friend's insincere forgiveness of her husband has made me question if true and genuine forgiveness particularly at the time of the offence, is humanly possible. (I guess those with Asperger's or autism might outwardly appear to achieve it.)

Christians will say that God gives them the strength to forgive, but to me that's just a delusion.

2

Scientists: Earth Endangered by New Strain of Fact-Resistant Humans (satire)

by HB in

minneapolis (the borowitz report) scientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.. the research, conducted by the university of minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.. these humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information, davis logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said.

and yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.. more worryingly, logsdon said, as facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.. while scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain.

the normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified, logsdon said.. while reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future.

HB

MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report) – Scientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of Earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.

The research, conducted by the University of Minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.

“These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,” Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. “And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.”

More worryingly, Logsdon said, “As facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.”

While scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain. “The normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified,” Logsdon said.

While reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, Logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future. “Our research is very preliminary, but it’s possible that they will become more receptive to facts once they are in an environment without food, water, or oxygen,” he said.

“These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,” Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. “And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.”

More worryingly, Logsdon said, “As facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.”

While scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain. “The normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified,” Logsdon said.

While reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, Logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future. “Our research is very preliminary, but it’s possible that they will become more receptive to facts once they are in an environment without food, water, or oxygen,” he said.

59

How the human mind processes facts and faith differently

by EdenOne in

i found this very interesting article by t. m. luhrmann in todays edition of the new york times (i've highlighted a few parts i 've found most interesting):.

it seems weird to deny them.. and yet a broad group of scholars is beginning to demonstrate that religious belief and factual belief are indeed different kinds of mental creatures.

people process evidence differently when they think with a factual mind-set rather than with a religious mind-set.

HB

Interesting article but I am also sceptical of the idea that people are more predisposed to believe in the supernatural as they age.

I agree with Great Teacher that it's more likely that the results of the study were skewed that way due to the effects of the particular cultural 'spirit of the time' and style of education the current older generation experienced.

My experience is mirrored by many -

As a child (non JW) I truly believed in Father Christmas, fairies unquestioningly lived in the pear tree in our garden, Jesus was born in a stable and wanted me to be good, the tooth fairy left money under my pillow in exchange for a tooth, my dolls and teddies came alive whilst I was asleep, and it was real magic when Marvo the Magician pulled a rabbit out of a hat.

In my teens I believed in God in a woolly sort of way, without examining the evidence but as a result of indoctrination from Sunday school.

In my late teens I became "spiritual but not religious". Believed in the existence of ghosts and thought crop circles were probably signs of alien visitations.

In my early twenties I avidly read all the new age stuff, astrology, crystal healing, psychic ability, dousing, meditation, near death experiences, telepathy, Feng shui, bio-rhythms etc.

Mid twenties started reading about science. debunked all of the above and if asked, described myself as a Humanist.

Now in my fifties, am more certain than ever, never once found any evidence for anything supernatural.

However, during my childhood my kindly elderly grandmother, born 1888, who had finished her education at age 14, had many superstitions such as if she accidentally put her cardigan on inside out, it had to stay that way all day as otherwise she would have bad luck, and although not a church goer, she did not question that the bible must be true. No amount of reasoning could convince her that man could have landed on the moon.

The study would need to examine how many older respondents if any had changed their position from sceptic to believer during their later years.

30

JW.Orgy......let's come up with slogans

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

here are a couple suggestions for slogans:.

missionary positions available".. 2.

where jesus isn't the only one coming for a second time".. .. add yours to the list.

HB

ARE YOU AN OLDER MAN LOOKING TO HOOK UP WITH YOUNGER WOMEN?

ARE YOU A COUGAR INTERESTED IN MEETING YOUNGER MEN?

JW.Orgy is the place to go

They'll teach you everything you need to know.

Their explanations are total crap,

but all the generations overlap!