Posts by HB

137

Mouthy has Passed Away

by Simon in

jw
friends

update on mouthy (grace gough)this is graces granddaughter.

i wanted to send an update that today my beautiful grandmother passed away - surrounded by friends and family.

- may 22 1927 - sept 2nd 2016. mouthys_granddaughter.

Mouthy never knew, but she was responsible for introducing me to a poster who has since become my best friend, and meeting him in turn led to saving another young friend from becoming baptised as a JW.

Mouthy posted on a thread 9 years ago that although she was now living in Canada, she was nostalgic for her British roots. She had lived on the London/Essex border and had once been in hospital in Hornchurch which is where I was born and grew up. So I got in touch to say hello. https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/144538/peeps-south-east-england?page=2&size=20

The poster Mr Majestic also commented to Mouthy on the thread about the Essex accent and I replied to that. Which led to an exchange of personal messages about accents ..... and the rest as they say, is history.

Mr Majestic asked why I, as a non JW, was on the forum and I explained about my young friend who was getting sucked into the cult. He kindly tutored me in the ways of JWs and what to say and he was directly instrumental in getting my friend away from the cult just a couple of weeks before she was baptised, to the huge relief of her worried parents.

If Mouthy hadn't posted, I would not have met Mr Majestic and would have soon stopped posting on JWD and it's almost certain that this young friend (who later posted as Blooming Marvellous) would now be a miserable and depressed JW.

Blooming Marvellous missed her 21st birthday and her parents' joint 50th birthday party while studying with the JWs but she is now completely out of the cult and married to a non JW with an 11 month old baby called Thomas.

Strange to know that in a slightly circuitous way, if it were not for Mouthy, baby Thomas would not be here!

An added bonus is that Mr Majestic is an amazing person and has become a close family friend.

So Mouthy unknowingly touched more peoples lives than she ever knew, and like others, I will remember her with great affection and grateful thanks.

20

Every time I see one of them loving their kids, I think....

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

every time i see photos of new jw parents cuddling up to their new babies.. every time i see people giving the parents new baby cards & gifts.. every time i see them having fun with their children.. i think to myself; 'you would shun your kids' .

if they don't end up being jw's.

if they simply publicly declare that they don't believe.

HB

Hi Truthexplorer,

What you told your daughter is wonderful. I'm sure knowing that you will always put her welfare before the requirements of a religion will give her a valuable sense of security and a balanced personality.

The simple but powerful words you said are what I would have hoped the JW mother at my door would have said when the subject came up, but she didn't and I felt bad for the daughter. It wasn't my place to comment further about their family life, but I hope it works out for the best for the daughter. I'm pretty certain she is not lucky enough to have an 'awake' father like your daughter, as they said that the Dad and the son were waiting in the car so they had to go.

Good luck with helping your wife pull her head out of the sand!

Heather

12

Even Non-JW's Recall 1975

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

last night.

pub quiz.

12 teams, somewhere in darkest england.. category: eternal flame.

HB

HI Freddo,

I know you said you were 'daft' and 'crazy' to get baptised the year following 1975, and you will no doubt always metaphorically kick yourself in the head for it, but go easy on yourself.

Probably the most important lesson I have learned about JWs is that contrary to the perception of most of the public and certainly myself in my pre-JWN days, in fact cult members are very often highly intelligent. I have seen that bright people are attracted to the complexity of the apparently seamless logic of the teachings, and indoctrination and mind control does the rest.

Also from what I have read on this site, being socially inept as a teen is fairly par for the course for JWs. Glad you eventually escaped!

You enquired about the story of the young girl I first posted about who was being indoctrinated. Fortunately it has a happy ending and is a JWN success story.

Thanks to the advice of people on this site and the huge practical help of one member in particular, my friend was 'rescued' just in time before she was to be baptised. The poster emailed me regularly with advice on how to talk to her and eventually met my friend when she was at a low point. I have a recording of the elders telling her that if she had been in Israel she would have been stoned for something she did.

Seeing her parents' heartfelt thanks being given to my new apostate friend when they had their daughter back was a great moment. She posted on here afterwards as Blooming Marvellous.

She is now married with an 11 month old baby and she is completely deprogrammed from JW input. She is also still a Brownie leader helping to run a Unit and involved with other community activities in our village.

20

Every time I see one of them loving their kids, I think....

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

every time i see photos of new jw parents cuddling up to their new babies.. every time i see people giving the parents new baby cards & gifts.. every time i see them having fun with their children.. i think to myself; 'you would shun your kids' .

if they don't end up being jw's.

if they simply publicly declare that they don't believe.

HB

Earlier this year, I had a JW mother and daughter call at the door. Although I mostly spoke to the mother, my thought was mostly to plant some seeds in the daughter’s mind as she was about 14 which is the age where teens often start to think for themselves.

We interspersed discussing religion with some sociable small talk and I started the conversation by asking the reasons why they believed the JWs had the truth and then countered with explanations of why I would certainly not want to belong to their religion even if I did believe in a god.

I was amazed that they stayed as long as they did (about half an hour) as I was laying into JW beliefs and practices with quite a strong iron fist, but in a very friendly and polite way. (I've never been in a KH or studied with JWs, so it was probably unexpected on their part to meet someone who wasn't an apostate who knew lots of details about their organisation).

On quite a few points the mum became tight lipped, agitated and had no answer, but the daughter’s reaction was the most interesting….. she was literally wide eyed with her mouth slightly open as she listened to the conversation, especially about the flood and the Australian Royal Commission (which I suggested they should google to see their governing body member being deceitful).

I guess the daughter was probably more used to her mum confidently leading the discussion and being ready with answers to all questions rather that flailing around on the defensive with no logical answers.

The most shocking point I left till near the end of our chat as I thought it might terminate the discussion. I had brought the daughter into the conversation a couple of times in general chit chat to ask about school and her future plans.

I complimented the mum on having an intelligent and beautiful daughter but said that I was horrified to know that if, in a few years’ time, the daughter decided she didn’t want to be part of the JW religion any more, her parents would be expected to shun her. I calmly said that I personally thought that was a disgusting and inhumane practice and told her that I have a daughter too and couldn’t comprehend how anyone could be part of a religion which accepted this. The mum was lost for words to start with but then mumbled about it being a loving thing to do, but I could tell by the way both were looking down and squirming that they were both highly embarrassed.

It may have been a rather shocking and insensitive thing to say with the daughter listening, but I wanted to get her to think about the reality of her religion, and also surreptitiously put the thought in her mind that leaving is an option for the future.

12

Even Non-JW's Recall 1975

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

last night.

pub quiz.

12 teams, somewhere in darkest england.. category: eternal flame.

HB

I have never been a JW, nor any of my family, but I knew about 1975 because when I was a teenager, my parents had a young JW employee who came to work for the family business in the late 1960s.

It was a plant nursery and the employee explained he would need to know how to grow things in the paradise that would exist when the current world order ended.

In December 1974 he handed in his notice, telling my parents that he was sad that he would not see them again and begged them to come to the KH, but they were not the least bit interested or worried. He was very socially awkward and never spoke to my sister or me and kept his eyes lowered if we passed by or brought him a cup of tea.

I assume he did full time door knocking during 1975. His parents sold their large house and donated the money to the Watchtower and all the large family moved into a caravan.

Needless to say, in January 1976, he came to ask for his job back, but he rarely spoke about his religion after that.

I recall my parents laughing with their friends at how crazy his ideas were, and although I had no more brushes with JWs until 2008 (when a young friend was sucked in so I joined this site for advice), I never forgot the date of 1975.

17

Another trinity thing

by Mozzie in

i have gone through the ones on here, i have read so much about it and everyone seems to have a different idea as to what the creed actually came up with in the sense of explaining it, religious leaders from most denominations seem to try to explain it and are all different, it does your head in just trying to read half their stuff.

when i was going door to door, i knew how to argue against it, but now trying to learn about it.. i was reading an article of the net about this and how christ emptied himself of all deity and that, but with all the statements made and arguments to and for it, one question was brought up.

when jesus was asked by his disciples about the time of the end, jesus replied neither i nor the angels know the hour, only the father.

HB

I have come across various viewpoints, but they mostly fall into two camps:

1. Jesus IS NOT identical to God but is part of the Godhead in the way that a human son is part of his father. They share genes plus physical, emotional and mental characteristics, but they think and act independently.

2. Jesus IS God, i.e. he is fully one and the same ‘being’ as God and the reason there are separate names is to distinguish the part of God the father who remained in Heaven while his alter ego Jesus the Son was on earth. In this case, it appears that God decided to split himself into two different 'beings' by begetting a son. He can thereby appear in two places at once and his two personas can act autonomously to each other, but remain the same entity.

Another analogy for the first scenario could be a band comprising a guitarist, a bassist and a drummer. The word ‘band’ is a singular item grammatically although in this case it’s also a trio. We think of it as one thing, however its constituent members are separate independent beings. The band members each make a different sound, but to make music, they have to be in harmony with each other and keep to the same rhythm and timing.

It's much harder to find an earthly analogy/metaphor for the second scenario, especially bearing in mind Jesus allegedly existed before the universe was created. Conjoined twins later separated doesn’t work as there are two distinct individuals involved with that. Nor does genetic cloning fit as the offspring is not ‘as one’ with the parent, he/she is merely identical genetically. I'd be interested to know if anyone has any suggestions that are not sci-fi or mythology.)

In either scenario, people tend to only focus on Jesus but what about the third part of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit? Is it simply God’s consciousness, his brain and thoughts and wishes, or is he/she/it a separate but closely linked entity which God controls and sends to do his bidding?

If the former, why not just make the godhead a duality, why a trinity? If the latter, why not give the Holy Spirit a personal name?

Or could it be that humans invented God and later added the idea of ‘three in one’ following other earlier myths, traditions and superstitions? Trinity appears to imbue the deity with greater majesty, power and mysticism and the concept is great PR - “buy one, get two free”!

34

So Today Was My Wife's First Ever Birthday Party

by dubstepped in

she turned one today, and 36 earlier this week.

we planned a big party, big for two people that have never thrown a party before.

we rented a church fellowship hall because 1. it was nice and big and affordable and 2. it was kind of awesome to throw a party in a place we would have never ventured in our previous life.

HB

Lovely to hear about your wife's party, Dubstepped. Thought you might enjoy hearing about another party I organised for an ex JW poster on this site who was helping me to get another friend of mine out of the cult back in 2008. (I have never been a JW).

I discovered he had never had (or been to) a birthday party which seemed all wrong to me. He was due to turn 38, so I arranged for him to come to visit our house on the day, encouraging him to believe it would just be a low key family meal. But instead I had arranged a surprise '8th' birthday party, with all the trimmings.

He was single so I had secretly arranged for several of my young single girl friends to turn up. When he'd recovered from the shock and we'd pinned on his oversized badge saying "8 today", he quickly got into the party spirit, although he said afterwards it did feel very odd when he'd never been the centre of attention before, especially as he was the only man. (My husband went and hid in the spare room!)

The birthday tea included classic children's party food such as chocolate spread sandwiches, cheese and pineapple on sticks, crisps, sausage rolls, pizza wedges, party rings, chocolate fingers, jelly and ice cream etc, washed down with lemonade and Pepsi.

Everyone wore party hats and we used party themed decorated paper plates with matching paper tablecloth and serviettes, and of course the birthday boy had to blow out his 8 candles on the cake while we sang the traditional song.

After tea, we played traditional party games, including pass the parcel, pin the tail on the donkey, blind man's buff etc. There was a compilation of 80s cheesy pop songs playing on the CD, and everyone gave a small fun present suitable for an 8 year old.

There was a great photo of my exJW friend on the sofa surrounded by pretty girls making a fuss of him!

Then of course at the end, everyone was given a little party bag to take home.

On a serious note, I think it is very sad that JW children miss out on birthdays when they are young. Although our adult children's party was lots of fun, it's impossible to make up later for all the missed, self-esteem building childhood experiences of feeling special for a day.

51

Help needed: transgender people and other unclear topics

by TeaBiscuit in

first of all, i am not quite sure whether this is the right place to ask my questions.

if this is not really appropriate, please tell me in advance, but i really did not know who to turn to, so i thought why not ask the internet... now, i know many of you are apostates and i'm not really looking for "leave it all behind you" answers, but really for experiences, thoughts and ideas... as well as maybe some verses if you can think of any.. anyway, first things first.

since this is very anonymous and i'd like to keep it that way, i will not give you my name, but still, i think some background info might be helpful.

HB

Hi TeaBiscuit,

From your posts, you seem to be a nice person, so I'm guessing your name refers to Nice biscuits which are designed to be dunked in tea?!

On the theme of Rebel8's link above, if you believe that God (or any other deity) designed or created animals, then there are several species whose biology and behaviour patterns could indicate that He is fine with transgender.

Or if you believe that God started life and left it to evolve, then we can at least say that He hasn't so far chosen to make these species extinct, which he could do if he didn't approve of sex changes.

The Clownfish (remember 'Finding Nemo') is an example..

It is a hermaphrodite which means that individuals are capable of changing their gender at some point in their life.

This does not imply that they are 'transgender' in terms of their psychology or that they suffer from the feeling of being born in the wrong body. They change merely for species survival reasons.

All babies are born male. They live in groups made up of all males and one female, and there is a hierarchy in each group with the female fish generally being the largest and most dominant fish in the group.

The 'alpha male' will be the only one to breed with the female and both take turns in guarding the eggs. If the female dies, this dominate male begins to gain weight and will change sex to become the female of the group.

This is just one example of many similar occurrences in nature, and as I said, although its not a parallel to human transgender issues, for Christians it could be used to show that the concept of sex change at least in the animal kingdom is presumably not abhorrent to God.

But for the Watchtower, it seems that anything and everything which is even remotely or distantly connected to 'sex' is automatically abhorrent and sinful.

33

78 to go and hopefully something good comes of it. Please do your part and sign up. Thanks

by Tenacious in

only 78 signatures are needed in order to send the request to the irs that they revoke or at the very least investigate the borg.

come'on guys, support it.. click here to support and sign up!.

HB

I signed, but not sure if it counts that I am in the UK?

People are asked to give their country as part of the signing process.

59

Sweet 16 - Happy Birthday to Us !

by Simon in

it's the forum's 16th birthday today!.

amazing that not only have we lasted so long but we're still thriving and growing.. thanks to all the people and often colorful characters who've contributed to the site over the years.

some are still here with us, some have since moved on, but all have touched each others lives in some way along our different journeys.. .

HB

I wonder how many lives JWN has (literally) saved?