Posts by HB

6

Cryonics

by HB in

on the bbc news at present is a story about a 14 year old girl from the uk who has sadly died of cancer, but has chosen to be cryogenically preserved in the us in the hope that in the distant future, science will find a way to cure the cancer and resuscitate her frozen body.. see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38012267.

the chances of this technique ever becoming a practical reality are very remote at present and it would take major breakthroughs in technology.

however, the professor in charge of tissue banking at the university of bristol, says that although there is little chance of it happening based on current knowledge, he believes "you can never say never in science".

HB

On the BBC news at present is a story about a 14 year old girl from the UK who has sadly died of cancer, but has chosen to be cryogenically preserved in the US in the hope that in the distant future, science will find a way to cure the cancer and resuscitate her frozen body.

See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38012267

The chances of this technique ever becoming a practical reality are very remote at present and it would take major breakthroughs in technology. However, the professor in charge of tissue banking at the University of Bristol, says that although there is little chance of it happening based on current knowledge, he believes "you can never say never in science".

Hypothetically, if in the future, science does manage to 'resurrect' bodies from a frozen state, without brain damage or other physical problems, so the person could live again with the same personality and memories as before, how would religious believers deal with the issue?

Christians who believe the soul goes to Heaven (or hell?) after death would presumably have some complex theological questions to tackle, but I'm not sure how JWs would react?

42

Learn To Speak Like A Jehovah's Witness

by pale.emperor in

for those who were never a jw, here's a fun guide to passing yourself as one:.

privilege [priv-lij] - a duty nobody would volunteer to do which is assigned to you without your say so.

such as cleaning the toilets, picking up other brats candy wrappers in the back row and being stuck on locking up duty for the 7th time in a row.. df'd [dee-eff'd] - disfellowshipped.

HB

When I joined this forum in 2008, I did not know any of this special JW language, having never been involved in the cult, and it took some time to learn the vocabulary and phraseology. I'm now quite fluent in 'JW-isms' thanks to reading this website.

During my first few weeks of reading the forum, as well as learning the meaning of words like 'field service', 'Bethel', 'judicial committee', 'being marked' etc, I also had to learn lots of abbreviations like WTS, MS, COBE, DF'd, KH, GB, and others.

Unfortunately, it made it even more confusing when posters used slang apostate terms like 'boasting session'. I had no clue what that meant.

Three of the words/phrases that I recall finding very odd at first were:

'ones' eg as in 'interested ones' written in the society's literature. It just sounded awkward, no one else uses that..
'faithful and discrete slave' - I couldn't get my head around the idea of the leadership being pleased to be compared to a slave; that word has such negative connotations in modern society.
'Sheep-like' - I was astounded to learn that acting like a sheep was supposed to be a good thing. Outside of the bible, the word has strongly undesirable implications, relating to slow-witted dumb animals who don't think for themselves but just blindly follow others even if the 'mob-mentality' direction is to jump over the edge of the cliff. Ironically, I found out it's very apt when referring to JWs, although its not intended to be thought of in that way.

97

BIG news Trump...His lewd conversation leaks.

by James Mixon in

jw
friends

if he get pass this, america deserve him...... conversation 10 years ago..

HB

A US Pastor (John Torell) is preaching that Donald Trump should not be judged for his lewd remarks because they were made in the past before he became a 'born again' Christian early in 2016.

Quote: "This event took place with a well-known pastor, who met privately with Trump and was able to lead him to Christ. Trump did not publicly announce his conversion since he didn’t want people thinking he was just pandering to the evangelicals. Two reliable sources have confirmed that Donald Trump came to Christ and this story was published in the Pentecostal magazine, Charisma."

John Torell claims that because God forgives sins and they are wiped away, Trump should not be judged on his past errors and quotes the case of Saul of Tarsus/Paul.

See http://eaec.org/desk/10-09-2016.htm http://eaec.org/desk/10-09-2016.htm

Video: https://vimeo.com/187036198

Being from the UK, I'm not fully au fait with all the facts about US politics, and I hadn't heard of Trump 'finding Jesus', but the whole idea is beyond ludicrous.

John Torell is a deluded and senseless idiot, (a few years ago he warned that Obama may be the anti-Christ), but I would be interested to know how widely Trump's religious status (or otherwise) has been discussed and how much of an issue it has been in the US media?

22

What kind of cheese do you like?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

i went to www.sensibus.com and they have 160 different kinds of cheese.

i just do not know which cheese i want to order.

any suggestions?

HB

I confess to being a cheesaholic.

Many years ago, age 17, I had just returned from a school trip to Russia and Eastern Europe & had not had any cheese for 3 weeks. On arrival home, after taking off my rucksack & saying hello to my elderly Grandmother who lived with my family, (my parents were away at the time), the first thing I did was to head for the kitchen in search of cheese.

I was hoping there would be one of my favourites, mature Cheddar, Red Leicester or Double Gloucester in the fridge.

Even better, on a cutting board on the worktop, to my surprise and delight, there was a large square lump of my favourite Caerphilly cheese, sitting on its wax wrapper with a kitchen knife alongside.

(For non cheese lovers, Caerphilly is a delicious, very white, hard crumbly cheese with a mild, salty, buttermilk taste. It originated in Wales.

My eyes lit up and my mouth watered. I couldn't even wait long enough to find some crackers and with a blissful look of anticipation on my face, cut myself a large wedge and stuffed it in my mouth.

My pleasure turned to horror as I crunched into a polystyrene-like texture and my mouth felt as if it was on fire with a ghastly petroleum-like taste.

I ran to spit it out and wash my mouth out, then I looked again at the packet. It was a lump of firelighter. My grandmother had been cutting it up into slivers on the kitchen board to start the fire in the living room and had not yet tidied it away.

It took a day to get rid of the taste, which I still remember now, but thankfully it didn't put me off cheese!

My other favourite English Cheese is Wensleydale (from Yorkshire).

137

Mouthy has Passed Away

by Simon in

jw
friends

update on mouthy (grace gough)this is graces granddaughter.

i wanted to send an update that today my beautiful grandmother passed away - surrounded by friends and family.

- may 22 1927 - sept 2nd 2016. mouthys_granddaughter.

HB

Mouthy never knew, but she was responsible for introducing me to a poster who has since become my best friend, and meeting him in turn led to saving another young friend from becoming baptised as a JW.

Mouthy posted on a thread 9 years ago that although she was now living in Canada, she was nostalgic for her British roots. She had lived on the London/Essex border and had once been in hospital in Hornchurch which is where I was born and grew up. So I got in touch to say hello. https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/144538/peeps-south-east-england?page=2&size=20

The poster Mr Majestic also commented to Mouthy on the thread about the Essex accent and I replied to that. Which led to an exchange of personal messages about accents ..... and the rest as they say, is history.

Mr Majestic asked why I, as a non JW, was on the forum and I explained about my young friend who was getting sucked into the cult. He kindly tutored me in the ways of JWs and what to say and he was directly instrumental in getting my friend away from the cult just a couple of weeks before she was baptised, to the huge relief of her worried parents.

If Mouthy hadn't posted, I would not have met Mr Majestic and would have soon stopped posting on JWD and it's almost certain that this young friend (who later posted as Blooming Marvellous) would now be a miserable and depressed JW.

Blooming Marvellous missed her 21st birthday and her parents' joint 50th birthday party while studying with the JWs but she is now completely out of the cult and married to a non JW with an 11 month old baby called Thomas.

Strange to know that in a slightly circuitous way, if it were not for Mouthy, baby Thomas would not be here!

An added bonus is that Mr Majestic is an amazing person and has become a close family friend.

So Mouthy unknowingly touched more peoples lives than she ever knew, and like others, I will remember her with great affection and grateful thanks.

20

Every time I see one of them loving their kids, I think....

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

every time i see photos of new jw parents cuddling up to their new babies.. every time i see people giving the parents new baby cards & gifts.. every time i see them having fun with their children.. i think to myself; 'you would shun your kids' .

if they don't end up being jw's.

if they simply publicly declare that they don't believe.

HB

Hi Truthexplorer,

What you told your daughter is wonderful. I'm sure knowing that you will always put her welfare before the requirements of a religion will give her a valuable sense of security and a balanced personality.

The simple but powerful words you said are what I would have hoped the JW mother at my door would have said when the subject came up, but she didn't and I felt bad for the daughter. It wasn't my place to comment further about their family life, but I hope it works out for the best for the daughter. I'm pretty certain she is not lucky enough to have an 'awake' father like your daughter, as they said that the Dad and the son were waiting in the car so they had to go.

Good luck with helping your wife pull her head out of the sand!

Heather

12

Even Non-JW's Recall 1975

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

last night.

pub quiz.

12 teams, somewhere in darkest england.. category: eternal flame.

HB

HI Freddo,

I know you said you were 'daft' and 'crazy' to get baptised the year following 1975, and you will no doubt always metaphorically kick yourself in the head for it, but go easy on yourself.

Probably the most important lesson I have learned about JWs is that contrary to the perception of most of the public and certainly myself in my pre-JWN days, in fact cult members are very often highly intelligent. I have seen that bright people are attracted to the complexity of the apparently seamless logic of the teachings, and indoctrination and mind control does the rest.

Also from what I have read on this site, being socially inept as a teen is fairly par for the course for JWs. Glad you eventually escaped!

You enquired about the story of the young girl I first posted about who was being indoctrinated. Fortunately it has a happy ending and is a JWN success story.

Thanks to the advice of people on this site and the huge practical help of one member in particular, my friend was 'rescued' just in time before she was to be baptised. The poster emailed me regularly with advice on how to talk to her and eventually met my friend when she was at a low point. I have a recording of the elders telling her that if she had been in Israel she would have been stoned for something she did.

Seeing her parents' heartfelt thanks being given to my new apostate friend when they had their daughter back was a great moment. She posted on here afterwards as Blooming Marvellous.

She is now married with an 11 month old baby and she is completely deprogrammed from JW input. She is also still a Brownie leader helping to run a Unit and involved with other community activities in our village.

20

Every time I see one of them loving their kids, I think....

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

every time i see photos of new jw parents cuddling up to their new babies.. every time i see people giving the parents new baby cards & gifts.. every time i see them having fun with their children.. i think to myself; 'you would shun your kids' .

if they don't end up being jw's.

if they simply publicly declare that they don't believe.

HB

Earlier this year, I had a JW mother and daughter call at the door. Although I mostly spoke to the mother, my thought was mostly to plant some seeds in the daughter’s mind as she was about 14 which is the age where teens often start to think for themselves.

We interspersed discussing religion with some sociable small talk and I started the conversation by asking the reasons why they believed the JWs had the truth and then countered with explanations of why I would certainly not want to belong to their religion even if I did believe in a god.

I was amazed that they stayed as long as they did (about half an hour) as I was laying into JW beliefs and practices with quite a strong iron fist, but in a very friendly and polite way. (I've never been in a KH or studied with JWs, so it was probably unexpected on their part to meet someone who wasn't an apostate who knew lots of details about their organisation).

On quite a few points the mum became tight lipped, agitated and had no answer, but the daughter’s reaction was the most interesting….. she was literally wide eyed with her mouth slightly open as she listened to the conversation, especially about the flood and the Australian Royal Commission (which I suggested they should google to see their governing body member being deceitful).

I guess the daughter was probably more used to her mum confidently leading the discussion and being ready with answers to all questions rather that flailing around on the defensive with no logical answers.

The most shocking point I left till near the end of our chat as I thought it might terminate the discussion. I had brought the daughter into the conversation a couple of times in general chit chat to ask about school and her future plans.

I complimented the mum on having an intelligent and beautiful daughter but said that I was horrified to know that if, in a few years’ time, the daughter decided she didn’t want to be part of the JW religion any more, her parents would be expected to shun her. I calmly said that I personally thought that was a disgusting and inhumane practice and told her that I have a daughter too and couldn’t comprehend how anyone could be part of a religion which accepted this. The mum was lost for words to start with but then mumbled about it being a loving thing to do, but I could tell by the way both were looking down and squirming that they were both highly embarrassed.

It may have been a rather shocking and insensitive thing to say with the daughter listening, but I wanted to get her to think about the reality of her religion, and also surreptitiously put the thought in her mind that leaving is an option for the future.

12

Even Non-JW's Recall 1975

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

last night.

pub quiz.

12 teams, somewhere in darkest england.. category: eternal flame.

HB

I have never been a JW, nor any of my family, but I knew about 1975 because when I was a teenager, my parents had a young JW employee who came to work for the family business in the late 1960s.

It was a plant nursery and the employee explained he would need to know how to grow things in the paradise that would exist when the current world order ended.

In December 1974 he handed in his notice, telling my parents that he was sad that he would not see them again and begged them to come to the KH, but they were not the least bit interested or worried. He was very socially awkward and never spoke to my sister or me and kept his eyes lowered if we passed by or brought him a cup of tea.

I assume he did full time door knocking during 1975. His parents sold their large house and donated the money to the Watchtower and all the large family moved into a caravan.

Needless to say, in January 1976, he came to ask for his job back, but he rarely spoke about his religion after that.

I recall my parents laughing with their friends at how crazy his ideas were, and although I had no more brushes with JWs until 2008 (when a young friend was sucked in so I joined this site for advice), I never forgot the date of 1975.

17

Another trinity thing

by Mozzie in

i have gone through the ones on here, i have read so much about it and everyone seems to have a different idea as to what the creed actually came up with in the sense of explaining it, religious leaders from most denominations seem to try to explain it and are all different, it does your head in just trying to read half their stuff.

when i was going door to door, i knew how to argue against it, but now trying to learn about it.. i was reading an article of the net about this and how christ emptied himself of all deity and that, but with all the statements made and arguments to and for it, one question was brought up.

when jesus was asked by his disciples about the time of the end, jesus replied neither i nor the angels know the hour, only the father.

HB

I have come across various viewpoints, but they mostly fall into two camps:

1. Jesus IS NOT identical to God but is part of the Godhead in the way that a human son is part of his father. They share genes plus physical, emotional and mental characteristics, but they think and act independently.

2. Jesus IS God, i.e. he is fully one and the same ‘being’ as God and the reason there are separate names is to distinguish the part of God the father who remained in Heaven while his alter ego Jesus the Son was on earth. In this case, it appears that God decided to split himself into two different 'beings' by begetting a son. He can thereby appear in two places at once and his two personas can act autonomously to each other, but remain the same entity.

Another analogy for the first scenario could be a band comprising a guitarist, a bassist and a drummer. The word ‘band’ is a singular item grammatically although in this case it’s also a trio. We think of it as one thing, however its constituent members are separate independent beings. The band members each make a different sound, but to make music, they have to be in harmony with each other and keep to the same rhythm and timing.

It's much harder to find an earthly analogy/metaphor for the second scenario, especially bearing in mind Jesus allegedly existed before the universe was created. Conjoined twins later separated doesn’t work as there are two distinct individuals involved with that. Nor does genetic cloning fit as the offspring is not ‘as one’ with the parent, he/she is merely identical genetically. I'd be interested to know if anyone has any suggestions that are not sci-fi or mythology.)

In either scenario, people tend to only focus on Jesus but what about the third part of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit? Is it simply God’s consciousness, his brain and thoughts and wishes, or is he/she/it a separate but closely linked entity which God controls and sends to do his bidding?

If the former, why not just make the godhead a duality, why a trinity? If the latter, why not give the Holy Spirit a personal name?

Or could it be that humans invented God and later added the idea of ‘three in one’ following other earlier myths, traditions and superstitions? Trinity appears to imbue the deity with greater majesty, power and mysticism and the concept is great PR - “buy one, get two free”!