Posts by HB

10

JW trolleys - London

by HB in

thought you might like to know that during a visit to london yesterday, the jw's were conspicuous by their complete absence.

admittedly it was a tuesday in february, but myself and my ex jw friend thought we would see at least one or two trolleys in their usual haunts, but nothing.

we checked out the area around westminster station where we have talked to jws before, but there was no sign.

HB

The 12 apostates - I would love to know where these 'wrong places' are!

Half Banana, it's the only advantage I have, that I can honestly say when I talk to JWs that I have never had any connections to the religion, so they can't close the conversation down on the basis of me being 'a bitter and twisted apostate'.

Initially I present as someone who is fascinated to learn about all religions and they immediately pigeon hole me into the role of a standard 'interested person' that they are trained to try to entice in with platitudes and fear.

But further into the conversation, having established my lack of connection to their Organisation, they become deeply uncomfortable when they realise that an apparently 'normal' member of the public knows about some of the Watchtower's dirty laundry, eg if I mention I have heard about the UN scandal or the 'two witness rule' or paedophile court cases etc.

I try to stay off biblical discussion as it's my weak point, but I can show incredulity for example that in the 21st century, they still believe there was a global flood, and I can leave them with nowhere to go on the issue of whether the world conditions are getting worse. An elder once pathetically told me that all the information that he'd been presented with about evolution 'just went over his head.'

My favourite moment was the last time JWs called at my door. It was a mother and her 14 year old daughter. We talked for about 20 minutes, during which the daughter's eyes were big as saucers as I listed all the reasons I would not want to be a member of their religion.

When I said to the mother "You have a beautiful daughter, but one day as she develops her own mind, she might decide she disagrees with you and want to leave the JWs. I would never want to be a member of a religion which demanded that if that happened, I must shun my own daughter".

There was a very uneasy silence while the mother looked at the ground. The daughter had her mouth open and stared at me with a 'deer in the headlights' look. The mother then said it had been an interesting conversation but they must go, and they would call again, but that was two years ago and no JWs have called on me since then.

I genuinely want to talk to JWs with the aim of hoping a little seed of information might eventually take root to help them learn the real truth, as I have learned what a damaging and pernicious cult JWs are.

10

JW trolleys - London

by HB in

thought you might like to know that during a visit to london yesterday, the jw's were conspicuous by their complete absence.

admittedly it was a tuesday in february, but myself and my ex jw friend thought we would see at least one or two trolleys in their usual haunts, but nothing.

we checked out the area around westminster station where we have talked to jws before, but there was no sign.

HB

I was quite disappointed not to see any JWs in London, as I had been looking forward to a discussion with them.

I've never been a JW, never been in a KH or had any family connections to the JW Organisation, but I have learnt a lot from my exJW friend and from this forum and I am now feeling ready to test my debating skills on the topic of whether JWs are the one true religion.

I've had three satisfying discussions with JWs at my door in the past on other issues, but I have been building my confidence level to be able to approach a trolley with this fundamental question. My friend would have been there as a back up if I got lost (I don't know the bible like JWs do), but I was feeling quite confident, so it was a shame we didn't find anyone for me to debate.

I have several friends who are Christians (C of E, Methodist, Baptist, Catholic), but I don't debate religion with them as they keep their beliefs quietly to themselves, and I respect that, but JWs are fair game to challenge as they feel entitled to try to spread their beliefs to everyone.

Hopefully there will be another time for me, although if the carts disappeared completely from the streets tomorrow, I don't think anyone would miss them.

10

JW trolleys - London

by HB in

thought you might like to know that during a visit to london yesterday, the jw's were conspicuous by their complete absence.

admittedly it was a tuesday in february, but myself and my ex jw friend thought we would see at least one or two trolleys in their usual haunts, but nothing.

we checked out the area around westminster station where we have talked to jws before, but there was no sign.

HB

Thought you might like to know that during a visit to London yesterday, the JW's were conspicuous by their complete absence. Admittedly it was a Tuesday in February, but myself and my ex JW friend thought we would see at least one or two trolleys in their usual haunts, but nothing.

We checked out the area around Westminster Station where we have talked to JWs before, but there was no sign. Looked again at Oxford Circus and Regent Street which is the busiest part of London, but no one was there. No-one at Marylebone or Baker Street, no-one at Piccadilly, Leicester Square, Soho or anywhere else.

We did come across a couple of enthusiastic ladies from another religion handing out tracts and a man with a sign saying ‘Jesus Saves’ ranting about the sin of masturbation, but that was it.

In the evening, we attended an interesting lecture to celebrate Darwin Day, an annual event organised by HumanistsUK. The main speaker was Richard Dawkins, supported by Dr Alice Roberts, both evolutionary biologists.

I would love to know what the reaction would have been if the JWs had been brave enough to set up their cart outside the lecture hall as the 3,000 attendees came out after listening to the inspiring talk and Q & A session.

(Incidentally, we were interested to learn that Dawkins’ book ‘The God Delusion’ has been unofficially translated into Arabic - (it is illegally on the internet as a pdf) – and it has apparently been downloaded over 13 million times, at least 3 million of which have been from Saudi Arabia. Dawkins doesn’t get any royalties on illegal downloads but his books are currently being translated into Arabic, Urdu, Farsi and Indonesian, and these will be made available free of charge on the internet to respond to what he describes is a ‘stirring towards atheism’ in some Islamic countries.)

22

Blonde Jokes

by Bangalore in

blonde jokes.. two blondes went to the pound where each adopted a puppy.

the joy of their new best friend was quickly overshadowed when they got home and the first blonde said, "i think we're in trouble, how are we going to tell them apart?

" this lead to several hours of concentration until finally, the second blonde said, "i've got an idea.

HB

LUHE,

As well as being blonde, I was born & grew up in Essex, so I have a double whammy of jokes aimed at me, but I love it. The jokes are not in any way malicious and it irritates me when people take it seriously & needlessly take offence. Keep the humour coming!

22

Blonde Jokes

by Bangalore in

blonde jokes.. two blondes went to the pound where each adopted a puppy.

the joy of their new best friend was quickly overshadowed when they got home and the first blonde said, "i think we're in trouble, how are we going to tell them apart?

" this lead to several hours of concentration until finally, the second blonde said, "i've got an idea.

HB

I have blonde hair but I take no offence whatsoever and laughed heartily at all the jokes.

29

A funny idea about dating in the paradise...

by JW_Rogue in

how in the hell would it ever work?

everyone is youthful, everyone is perfect, everyone's personality is loving and kind.

how would you choose somebody?

HB

A question I have often wondered.....

(Please correct me if I'm missing some information, .... not having ever been a JW, I don't know all the teachings about paradise, but in a crazy sci-fi way it fascinates me as an imaginary concept.)

If everyone in paradise looks attractive and youthful and dating, relationships and having babies are a thing at least for some, how would a man know whether the girl that he had his eye on, with the cute face / attractive body / compatible personality was not say, his great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother?

Or, when paradise has been in existence for hundreds of thousands of years, how would a woman who was actually say 80,000 years old in our timescale, but still looks age 20, know that the guy she was interested in was not her great, great, (x however many) grandson or nephew?

Perhaps incest wouldn't matter any more as was apparently the case for Adam and Eve's offspring?

The whole idea of paradise is creepy and deeply unappealing to me, and reminds me of one of my favourite books written in 1932 by Aldous Huxley... 'Brave New World/'.

18

Scholarly interview on the existence of Jesus

by careful in

perhaps this has been linked here before.

if that's the case, i'm sorry.

however, new people join, others miss things, some forget, so i thought it was worth posting, especially since this issue comes up from time to time and some here have never worked it out or are in the process of trying to do so.

HB

There was a phone-in discussion a few days ago on 'The Atheist Experience' on the topic of proving the historicity of Jesus.

The video is available on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5AordEPtok

The caller is no match for the co-host David Fitzgerald who has written a book on the topic, but it's an interesting discussion.

It's quite long (about 26 minutes), but it held my attention throughout and I learnt a lot.

111

Is he interested?

by Sunnybear in

i met a wonderful man on match.com several months ago.

on our first date, there was amazing chemistry and we ended up having sex.

it was not planned, it just happened.

HB

I've never been a JW and so am not qualified to discuss that aspect, but you have already had plenty of good advice. I'm approaching your dilemma from a different angle, based on my own experience and observing other happy marriages, as well as the problems of badly matched or unhappy couples.

If you talk to divorced people, they will often tell you that one of the biggest mistakes they made in choosing their ex-partner was going with their heart rather than their head.

The problem is that much of modern culture in films, on TV, in novels and music lyrics encourages the ide that romance, emotions and physical attraction are a good basis for a happy relationship. It may sound unromantic and clinical, but my experience is that logic and rationality are invariably a far better guide to successfully choosing a suitable partner.

If you can, figuratively step outside your current situation and try to imagine a future you in say, 20 years’ time, when the first wrinkles and grey hairs are showing. Imagine you are looking back on your life. What would you like to have achieved during those 20 years, how do you realistically envision your day to day life has been and what would your relationship with your partner be like after living together all those years? Write it all down.

Now make another list. Write down what personal qualities your future partner would need to have in order that your vision for your relationship could be fulfilled. Be very careful to do this dispassionately, and don’t allow yourself to be influenced by the characteristics of your current boyfriend.

Your choices can be positives or negatives, (For example, Positives - he must be good with children, he must be open minded, he must be honest; Negatives - he must not be a smoker, he must not be controlling, he must not be moody).

Again being realistic, choose the top five to ten items on your list which you know you would not compromise on, and highlight these. The other items will be regarded as ‘nice to have’ but not absolutely essential attributes. Remember no one is perfect, despite the portrayal of some Hollywood films, and compromise on more superficial characteristics will be inevitable.

Now be absolutely honest and put a tick against the items on your list that describe your JW guy. Does he fit with all your fundamental requirements?

From your posts, I picked out amongst other things that you want someone who will be affectionate, someone who is able to discuss profound topics and someone who will be there to support you with life’s ups and downs.

Bear in mind that if your boyfriend is turning up the romance and attention when he is concerned that you are about to end the relationship, this probably means he is acting a role. If he was genuinely a caring and attentive type, it would be an everyday part of his life, not just used as a tool when needed to keep you keen. If you were to marry, he would not have to try any more, and the affection and romantic attention could very quickly disappear once the honeymoon was over. That is very common.

Enjoying deep conversations could last, but ask yourself, does he carefully listen to your views and happily accept that you are entitled to disagree with him, or does he get irritated and become dogmatic and arrogant if you take an opposing stance?

You already don’t agree on religion, but how about ethics, politics, lifestyle, financial management, household management, gender roles, and the best way to bring up children? You need to be sure you can compromise on any points where you disagree.

You don’t seem at all sure whether he would be caring and supportive of you in times of need. This is a crucial factor to determine. Forget about helping out with a tyre puncture, if he truly loves you, and is a genuine caring person, he would stick by you and take responsibility if you were in a terrible accident and left scarred and badly disabled. Would he do this for you? (And conversely, would you do it for him in those circumstances?)

The most important element of love is respect. Does he respect and admire the things about you that you are most proud of about yourself? Do you respect his best qualities?

If you take off the rose tinted glasses and work through these kind of questions with complete honesty (no point kidding yourself – this is a life-changing decision), you should be able to work out what is superficial and what matters to you. This may help you to by-pass your unreliable emotional responses and make a more rational decision.

I won't wish you good luck as I don’t think your future is entirely down to luck, but good judgement and a mature approach. But I sincerely wish you the best and hope whatever you decide, you won't regret it in 20 years’ time!

Heather

15

Jehovah's Witnesses on BBC World Service radio

by jw news 2017 in

it is supposed to shape every facet of the lives of its 8 million followers around the world.its beliefs set it apart not only from non-believers and other christian faiths.but what has emerged in recent years is an alleged catalogue of sexual abuse that has gone unreported and unpunished due to this adherence to the literal word of god.david cook meets the survivors of years of abuse who say their claims were ignored because of the lack of two witnesses to the crime, a major law of the organisation which it says is enshrined in the bible.jehovah’s witnesses deny they shelter any abusers but he will hear how some alleged abusers were allowed to remain part of the organisation because of the lack of witnesses.he will also investigate how this insular worldwide community is responding to mounting pressure to turn over decades of testimonies which could expose thousands more cases of abuse... "~ quoted text, and video image, from the web page:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p056p7wgaudio of the programme:'heart and soul ~ witness protection' ~ broadcast on bbc world service at13:32 uk time, on 30th june 2017© copyright bbc world service © copyright bbc heart and soul

HB

A friend, who is generally not at all interested in religion and never had any dealings with JWs (beyond saying 'no thanks' at the door), sent me the youtube link to this, suggesting I should listen.

She was shocked and thoroughly disgusted at what she had learned, partiicularly about shunning, the two witness rule and the whole attitude of the organisation to abuse victims,. She wanted to spread the word.

I think my friend's reaction will be typical of many non-JWs who listen to the programme or podcast.

It's satisfying that, the harmful aspects of this religion are becoming more and more widely known by the general public.

The illusion of JWs as a benign, well meaning, if slighty weird and irritating group is, at leastt in the UK, fading quite fast now, thanks to the internet and other media.

24

FFA - 4H - Conscious matter or not allowed?

by Jennifer Lehrer in

i was baptized 4 years ago, i have 2 little girls who love their bunnies, so this year we reached out to 4h and started our own 4h group - this was after asking the elders for counsel.

none provided.

now after doing this for 3 months i am being brought before a judicial committee for neutrality.

HB

I have never been a JW but I joined this forum several years ago when a young friend started attending the local Kingdom Hall. You might be interested in her story as it relates to your situation in several ways.

My friend was 20 at the time and her study conductor had deceptively reassured her that she would NOT have to give up being a member of Girlguiding (the UK version of Girl Scouts), which I understand is in some respects similar to the club your daughters are part of.

My friend was a leader with the Brownies and whilst being 'love bombed' by the JWs, she was initially told it would be fine to continue being a Guiding volunteer provided she avoided meetings where Christmas and Easter Crafts were part of the programme and she mustn't join in with singing Happy Birthday to the girls.

Of course things started changing as she studied more and was approaching baptism. The thumb screws were tightened, but the Elders were clever, they desperately didn't want to lose their new recruit, as it was a rare prize to have a new young member who was not 'born in'.

So rather than forcing her to leave Brownies, she was strongly 'encouraged' to understand that it would be better to resign from the Brownies because it was taking her away from fully dedicating her life to Jehovah, and of course she did not want to displease Him. So believing it was her own decision, she reluctantly on principle resigned her membership of Girlguiding.

Long story short, eventually she could not cope with the controlling rules of the WT organisation, and left the JWs after much suffering and depression. She realised the WT Organisation controlled her lifestyle, her behaviour, what she could wear, which information she was allowed to read, what she did with her spare time, even what books, music and ornaments she could own, and finally they even controlled her thoughts and emotions. She had joined a high control cult-like organisation.

Having happily broken all ties with the JWs, she is now a volunteer with Girlguiding once again and gains far more from that than she ever did from her membership of the WT Organisation.

Sending you wishes for clarity of mind as you face this situation, and I hope that if you are forced to choose between the 4H group and the Watchtower, whatever you do, you will put the happiness and welfare of your daughters as your first priority. x