Posts by logic&reason

47

praying before a meal

by megaflower in

i have stopped.

it brings up too many memorys of having some elder pray for the cong before we partook of any food.

it just seemd like a big production, all would gather around and bow heads in silence while some senior male gave thanks- no more- no thanks

What's is the point of praying before a meal? Who are you praying to? Is it "Jehovah", is it "God", is it just a generic "Lord"? Are you praying to say how thankful you are? If god exists, doesn't he already know whether you are thankful or not? Why vocalize it if he can read your heart?

Consider this: If you are thanking god because you truely believe that he provided the food for you, should you blame him if you get food poisoning from a bad meal? If god is so great, and has the love and power to provide so much wonderful food for us, why is he so cruel and impotent when dealing with starving children in developing nations?

Just for the record, I still pray when I am with family, because I know it makes them feel good. I know it means something to them. I just don't think it goes anywhere beyond the ears of the people around me. Nobody else is "listening".

49

Who has lost faith?

by logic&reason in

i am curious about who (after leaving) went on to other religions vs. lost faith completely.

once i started questioning the wt society, i began to question everything.

as jw's we are taught from childhood up that other religions are false - so it seems easy, after elliminating the last one, to be rid of religion altogether.. .

logic&reason

Wow. I appreciate everyone's replies. I cannot tell you how good it is to know that so many of you feel exactly as I do.

I went through a phase at the beginning where I tried to convince myself that the new things I was learning were somehow twisted... that in some way I must have been misunderstanding the facts. I tried to do even more research to reassure my faith; READ more, STUDY more, PRAY more... but it had hte opposite effect. It's funny because I can remember praying and praying to Jehovah to give me the correct understanding, help me know that I was really in the "truth", and that I was following the right path. But that didn't help, so I resolved to stop reading the history books, stop relying on "Google" to answer the tough questions, and just concentrate on the meetings and WTS publications.

That lasted about a week. I can remember leaving the Hall irritated at everything.

Then I had the bright idea to look into examples of people who have struggled with faith in the past and had overcome their doubts. Maybe I could get some pointers... and get myself back on the road to life. That, of course, dropped into the realm of philosophy, and I came across some information on Soren Kierkegaard. In case anyone doesn't already know, Kierkegaard basically argued that in order to have faith, you must have doubt. If you can prove something exists (without a doubt) it takes no faith to believe in it. So faith equals believing in the unbelievable; embracing the absurd as reality.

Back to the books I went. I stumbled onto some books about textual criticism, and began to realize that it wasn't just the WTS that was peddling the absurd... Like I have said before, as a witness, you can easily dismiss other religious doctrine as ridiculous. But the reality seems (to me) to be that the stories of the Old Testament were just an invention of a bunch of primitive desert nomads that were edited, and embellished over centuries of telling and re-telling. (Or more realistically, they were plagiarized copies of stories told by other cultures that at one time or another dominated the Hebrews)

Anyway, once I got over the JW/Fundamental Christian mental block about Evolution, and I realized that there really is a lot of proof for evolution... undeniable proof for evolution, I started moving at light speed.

The thing is I can't really call myself an Atheist. Though I do agree with many Atheists, I cannot prove they are right either.

Sorry for the rant, and thanks again for all of the responses.

49

Who has lost faith?

by logic&reason in

i am curious about who (after leaving) went on to other religions vs. lost faith completely.

once i started questioning the wt society, i began to question everything.

as jw's we are taught from childhood up that other religions are false - so it seems easy, after elliminating the last one, to be rid of religion altogether.. .

logic&reason

I am curious about who (after leaving) went on to other religions vs. lost faith completely.

Once I started questioning the WT society, I began to question everything.

As JW's we are taught from childhood up that other religions are false - so it seems easy, after elliminating the last one, to be rid of religion altogether.

12

hidden illustrations in the watchtower magazine

by Wendy_Warden in

i have been visiting the site of the six screens of the watchtower and one of the things they speak about under screen three (i think) is the hidden pictures in the illustrations contained in the awake and watchtower mags.

i was blown away but what they found.

however, i don't want to seem paranoid about it go some of you should go and see it for yourselves and see if i'm crazy.

logic&reason

I remember that too...

It wasn't on the cover, it was on part of an illustration inside a Watchtower about "Obscene Talk".

39

Mary imperfect, Jesus perfect

by heyfea in

my husband never ceases to amaze me with the things he asks me.

yesterday night he asked me: why was jesus born perfect when mary was not perfect?

i said to him that it should be the same as having a surrogate mother.

logic&reason

That is funny.

Except for the part about freeballing it...

39

Mary imperfect, Jesus perfect

by heyfea in

my husband never ceases to amaze me with the things he asks me.

yesterday night he asked me: why was jesus born perfect when mary was not perfect?

i said to him that it should be the same as having a surrogate mother.

logic&reason

I am pretty sure that only the Gospels of Matthew and Luke mention the virgin birth specifically, and they were (most likely) written after, and influenced by, most of Paul's letters. \

If you go back far enough, there is evidence that the concept of a "virgin birth" is of pagan origin.

Google "Isis and Horus" for some information. It is interesting when you read the Egyptian myths that deal with Horus (the son of god) battling with Set (the evil brother of god)... I am simplifying here, but you get the point.

20

Bookstudy and the United Nations

by bud2114 in

wondering if anyone else is taking advantage of the subject matter being covered these past few weeks at the bookstudy (revelation climax book) regarding religion's association with the blasphemous scarlet colored wild beast (un organization)?

this week especially does the book get into religion's "heinous" involvement with the un with the wt society's writers even sarcasticly poking fun at other religions who have supported the un.

i, for one, have been taking full advantage of this grand opportunity to "witness" to as many j-dubs as possible about the wt society's secret 10 year involvement with the un and subsequent coverup.

logic&reason

I wanted to choke a few weeks ago when the conductor went on and on about how that WWII was instigated by the Pope, and that the Catholic church played the biggest part in the formation of Nazi Germany.

Nevermind the treaty of Versailles... war reparations... a major depression... none of those things played a part. It was "Babylon the Great" pulling strings again.

And people just sit there and nod in agreement, or make additional moronic comments that underscore the fact that they know little of real history outside of what the orgaization tells them.

20

Bookstudy and the United Nations

by bud2114 in

wondering if anyone else is taking advantage of the subject matter being covered these past few weeks at the bookstudy (revelation climax book) regarding religion's association with the blasphemous scarlet colored wild beast (un organization)?

this week especially does the book get into religion's "heinous" involvement with the un with the wt society's writers even sarcasticly poking fun at other religions who have supported the un.

i, for one, have been taking full advantage of this grand opportunity to "witness" to as many j-dubs as possible about the wt society's secret 10 year involvement with the un and subsequent coverup.

logic&reason

I have a link to the UN response if anyone wants it: http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf (sorry if I am reposting)

The problem is that most people still want to believe that it isn't real. When I first started learning about all of this, I ran out and told a bunch of people expecting them to react like I did. But they didn't. They just dismissed it. When I told a relative about the response letter on the UN website, they said that we couldn't trust the UN because it the the "Scarlet Colored Wild Beast".

The WT Society has done an incedibly effective job of creating distrust in everyone/everything but them.

It's like they have everyone addicted to "Crazy Pills".

20

Bookstudy and the United Nations

by bud2114 in

wondering if anyone else is taking advantage of the subject matter being covered these past few weeks at the bookstudy (revelation climax book) regarding religion's association with the blasphemous scarlet colored wild beast (un organization)?

this week especially does the book get into religion's "heinous" involvement with the un with the wt society's writers even sarcasticly poking fun at other religions who have supported the un.

i, for one, have been taking full advantage of this grand opportunity to "witness" to as many j-dubs as possible about the wt society's secret 10 year involvement with the un and subsequent coverup.

logic&reason

I just read the post... There are no updates after 3/20. I wonder what happened.

20

Bookstudy and the United Nations

by bud2114 in

wondering if anyone else is taking advantage of the subject matter being covered these past few weeks at the bookstudy (revelation climax book) regarding religion's association with the blasphemous scarlet colored wild beast (un organization)?

this week especially does the book get into religion's "heinous" involvement with the un with the wt society's writers even sarcasticly poking fun at other religions who have supported the un.

i, for one, have been taking full advantage of this grand opportunity to "witness" to as many j-dubs as possible about the wt society's secret 10 year involvement with the un and subsequent coverup.

logic&reason

It never works out for me when I try to let people know about the NGO involvment. If you slip it into a conversation, all you get is a canned relpy like: "Where did you hear that?" which leads to another reply of: "That's just apostate propaganda."

I am still undercover, so I cannot tell anyone how much research I have done, and that I know it is fact, so it just gets brushed aside.

It is difficult to sit through a bookstudy and listen to all of the mis-information and manufactured history in the Revelation book.