just got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
JG wrote: " Well the next time someone comes up with a legal plan to counter the Watchtower Society, and it involves legal means, the first person to mention the slippery slope argument I will kindly redirect them toward you."
Huh? What does that mean?
just got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
The slippery slope argument is always used by those seeking to push their fear based agenda. It really is pathetic, and quite illogical. When they raised the speed limit in America from 55 to 65 (or 70) how many believed the 'slippery slope' argument then? That if we raised the speed limit to 65 the slippery slope meant we would soon be enacting 95 mph speed limits. Or the 'slippery slope' debaters when it comes to assault rifles. When govt seeks to outlaw AK-47s (machine guns) the 'slippery slope' hunters start decrying that what's next a 30/6? How many people really hunt (other than for hunting other humans) using an AK-47? They have nothing in common. It's a fear tactic, and frankly any time someone needs to make an appeal to your emotions, has already lost the argument.
Just a few days ago Mildred Loving died. She was the one responsible for getting the Supreme Court of the United States to strike down anti-mixed race marriage prohibitions. Yes, only 40 years ago getting married to someone of an opposite race meant you ran afoul of the law, and were not welcome in many states. Google Mildred Loving, and read her story. Then tell me that white and black people or mixed races shouldn't marry. Gay marriage is exactly, absolutely, 100%, identicaly to this ruling back in 1967. In 20 years time modern America will look back at this time frame and wonder what kind of uneducated, neanderthal, idiots, used to run the place.
just got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
Ben X wrote:Indo-Dude,
Wow, that's some powerful story. The 'spiritual paradise' is truly a farce.
I'm glad you saw 'da troof' for what it was at a young age. At 24, I was blinded by Bethel. And went on to waste many more years of my life there.
And I'm glad you're here.
B the X
Basically it made my parent realize how two faced the witnesses were. "We" did the right thing in going to the elders with "my little problem", and they essentially forced me to get baptized, spread rumors far and wide that I was gay, and "marked" me. My dad owns his own business that his father handed down to him in the building trades business. He would be on a job site and hear other JWs talk about me being a fag even though only two elders were supposed to know about my sexual relationship with that elder's son. Of course that elder's son was never mentioned, only me as being a fag. My parents watched so many times when the elders would never follow the rules supposedly laid out in the bible and instead have rules that changed daily, and always against me.
The elders had basically decided I was a "bad egg" and they were going to do anything and everything to get rid of me. Especially since the PO's kid was involved sexually with me. Looking back now it was almost comical.
just got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
Junction Guy wrote:
Perhaps I should start a new thread explaining the circumstances around this EX-JW I was mentioning earlier, probably not mention his screen name, but maybe give alot of clues. Perhaps he will read it and know it is he.
Does that break a rule or something where you say what happened? I am new here and have already run afoul of a couple of unspecified "violations" so I'm never quite sure what is allowed vs. not allowed. But if this was most boards, you could simply say what happened, and if the other poster disagreed, they were free to say their peace, and move on. So, I guess I'd err on the side of more information rather than less. It might help us understand where you are 'coming from' better, ya know?
just got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
Billy wrote:Junction-Guy,
Sorry for your confusion and unhappiness.
BenV started this thread to celebrate a legal victory in one state that may give many people a great deal of happiness and acceptance in their lives. Ben is a newbie of about 30 posts, a member less than a week. Is this any way to welcome him?
Please, JG, if you want to go start a ME ME ME thread, go, do it. Don't hijack the new guys thread to preach and talk about yourself. Take your soapbox elsewhere, please.
B the X
I certainly understand where you are coming from and agree on a certain level. I guess I came to the realization that my being gay helped my family escape the JWs completely. Had I not been gay, come out of the closet, and been abused by the elders / circuit overseer, my family would have never seen the horrific ways in which I was treated. They watched as many elders would break procedure and pay no attention to what the WTBS claimed was supposed to happen in a judicial matter, and instead did whatever they pleased. When they also found out that I had sex with an elder's son who was over 18 and I was 15, yet the elder started to retell a fictional story that I had raped/abused his son, they became irate. Especially since, they had found us together with the elder's son on top of me, being the penetrative partner. While I was unbaptized, and hung out to dry, the elder's son who was baptized, and in all reality a rapist under state law, was lauded, and given assignment after assignment of privleges. He got married shortly thereafter, and as recently as a few months ago I know he was fracking an ex-boyfriend of mine. Very pathetic and sad if u ask me.
i've never been a jw, so i'm curious exactly what drives a witness?
is it the fear of possibly not making it through armageddon that motivates them to do more, do more, do more??
our relative just starting pioneering.
Fear, loathing, self-hate.
Sad, but simple.
who's the worst?.
i was thinking sean hannity because he is such a jerk that he can't ever even shut his trap for 3 seconds to let anyone else say anything.
he annoys me so much that i can't even listen to his voice.. second, but possibly 1st, is olbermann.
Bill O'Reilly really needs to be castrated and put into anger management classes.
just got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
Junction wrote: Benjamin, maybe if there were more people around like you, when I was really conflicted with this, it could have made a difference. But just about every gay and gay friendly person on this board practically shunned me here, and this was well before I was even vocal about my christian beliefs.
Yes I was confused, yes I was angry, and alot more things, but not one person that I ever reached out to, had the decency to talk with me about this.
Indo_dude---I have never sought out sex in bathrooms, I don't even know for sure if Larry Craig did or if it was a set up.
I never wanted sex in the first place, I was looking for friendship, a place to belong, and other positive things.
I know all too well about A Common Bond and have been on their website in the past. I tried to make contact with people, but once they find out you aren't looking for sex or a civil union partner, they pretty much drop you like a hot pan.
I think you are over-generalizing, perhaps as much as I over-generalized your situation, and for that I apologize. Speaking only from my experience, that once you go thru the pain, self-loathing, and discovering process of coming out, you don't have a lot of patience for others that refuse to acknowledge their sexuality.
At a certain point, why should I, or would I have much sympathy for someone who hates themselves so much? Not to be rude or demeaning JG, but you seem very angry, hostile, and bitter over your sexuality. It's hard to keep such negativity around you, after you have finally escaped the damage of the JWs. I agree that may not be right, or proper, but really can you blame someone for not wanting to deal with such self-loathing? Look, I realize that 50% of America and the world hates me simply because I like men. When I seek out and have sought out a male companion, boyfriend, spouse, I want someone I can give myself over to fully, and he can to me as well. My patience level for people who aren't out yet shrinks with every passing year. I like who I am.... I really do. I refuse to apologize to anyone for who I am, and what I am. So frankly, to have to pull someone else along who is much older, and in denial about their sexuality seems like a waste of time.
Does that make any sense?
not an issue with me - but i wonder how many voters would turn against him if they found out he was?
the latest tabloid in check out lines has brought the sinclair scandal out into the public eye - and although i haven't heard it yet, i understand that rev manning has a damning video on youtube.
larry craig was vilified - would the same people who vilified him still vote obama in and why?
Preston wrote:Barack Obama cannot possibly be gay.
It's the republican, not the democratic party, that has all the closeted ones...
- Preston
LOL, ain't that the truth!
just got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
Junction Guy,
Now I understand why you are so conflicted and seemingly angry all the time. You haven't come to grips with your sexuality yet, which is sad. I wish you wouldn't hate yourself so much, and learn to love yourself. I don't know you from Adam, but when you claimed you were 'molested, but not in the classic sense' last week it set off alarm bells in my head. Unfortunately, in my opinion your are much like Larry Craig. Vowing loudly, and publically that gays shouldn't get married, are flawed, and not Christian, while skulking in airport bathrooms looking for dudes to suck/gratify you sexually.
I honestly feel bad for you, and wish you could overcome your self-hate. Life is too short to hate yourself dude. Trust me, I hated myself for far too long.
