Banana pancakes with loads of butter and maple syrup. English Breakfast or Earl Grey Tea.
OzGirl
JoinedPosts by OzGirl
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34
Quick introduction
by OzGirl inonly have a few minutes to spare so thought i would throw this together.. been in for about 30 years.
questions and doubts gathered over that time.
i have a keen interest in the legal and financial matters of the watchtower.. came across this site about 5 years ago.
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OzGirl
yes I did say the new tithing arrangement was like an everlasting loan lol...I was being facetious. - KateWild
Hi KateWild
I remember when I first read the phrase "everlasting loan" - it made me laugh.
So many people at my hall were saying how our congregation was now "debt free." I remember thinking at the time, that they had it wrong. The congregation is now locked into the "everlasting loan" and the Watchtower Society owns the hall.
I have the feeling that many brothers/sisters do not understand the financial dynamics behind this arrangement.
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New "donation" arrangement begins to FAIL
by Tech49 inso here we are, almost a year into the "new" congregation donation arrangement.
and its beginning, as was predicted, to fail miserably, and to have direct negative consequences on the poor sheep.. let me give you a little experience, directly from our congregation of about 80 publishers.
back in may, after reading the letter about the "new" arrangement, the elder body decided to "donate" the extra funds on hand to wt, as directed.
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OzGirl
"They weren't ever gonna get the full amount of the pledge. I suspect they knew that." - neverendingjourney
My guess is that the Watchtower Society is counting on the fact that most congregations won't meet the full payment of the pledge. This would then make "new light" necessary and pave the way for tithing.
I hope I'm wrong on this point but I just "have a feeling in my bones" on this matter.
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34
Quick introduction
by OzGirl inonly have a few minutes to spare so thought i would throw this together.. been in for about 30 years.
questions and doubts gathered over that time.
i have a keen interest in the legal and financial matters of the watchtower.. came across this site about 5 years ago.
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OzGirl
How come the GB are allowed to run ahead of Jehovah but the untitled brothers/sisters(congregation members) are not allowed to?
1975 - the GB accused the untitled brothers/sisters of having false expectations about what 1975 would bring. Who was responsible for encouraging the untitled brothers/sisters to think that the end would come in 1975? If the expectations of the untitled brothers/sisters were false, where did they get those thoughts and ideas from? (None of the untitled brothers/sisters are allowed to think or speak in a manner that conflicts with whatever the GB teach. And how did such an expectation become so widespread?) I personally didn't live through the 1975 time period, so I had to read up on issues of the magazines that were from the 1970's, to get a sense of the type of mentality that was being promoted during that time.
This next point is not a doctrinal one but more of a procedural one. In case of emergency at a convention/assembly, the only person permitted to call 000 (or the equivalent of the emergency number, depending on where you live) is the brother who is in charge of first aid. That's not what CPR/First Aid training says - if the person is unconscious and not breathing, the very next step is to call for emergency help. Then you start CPR. (Suppose the brother in charge of first aid can't be located for whatever reason.) I think that this is a lawsuit waiting to happen. It is not a case of "if" but "when."
The "apostates are mentally diseased" Watchtower study article. I've never seen the Watchtower Society publish a written apology and retraction for the printing of this article.
The direction to "obey us even if what we say sounds crazy" - Nah. I don't think so. Not here........ If the faithful and discreet slave is struggling to figure out who it is and its status before Jehovah and can't figure out the basics, I certainly will not be following any "crazy directions."
The other point which crosses my mind here is why would the GB feel that they need to say this, at this point in time. Is there something that they know that they are not sharing with the untitled brothers/sisters? (They claim to have the role of "watchman" - aren't they supposed to speak up if they know of something that will affect the congregation?)
"Whatever things you may bind on earth will be things bound in heaven, and whatever things you may loose on earth will be things loosed in heaven." - Matthew 18:18. So in the case where there is a miscarriage of justice in a judicial committee case, how does this scripture work?
Why aren't judicial committees held in public, in following with the Biblical precedent of "having your case heard at the gates of the city?"
Why doesn't the reinstatement procedure follow the time frame in which the prodigal son was welcomed home? (Luke chapter 15)
Why is only one witness needed to establish "proof" of adultery but two witnesses are needed in the case of child abuse?
If the internet was to be an instrumental tool in the preaching work, why wasn't it used years ago when it first came out?
Why is Matthew 24:45-47 phrased in the form of a question? ("Who really is the faithful and discreet slave?")
Criticism of higher education.
UN NGO affiliation. If the Watchtower Society felt that this wasn't an issue, then why were they so secretive about it?
Child abuse court cases. The Watchtower Society shows more fear of apostates than it does of pedophiles.
How come people are allowed to raise questions before they get baptized, but are not allowed to raise questions after they are baptized?
In what way does the building of the headquarters at Warwick advance Kingdom interests? I think it is just a retirement retreat for the GB.
The merging (read: another word for closure) has been described as a means of "removing national barriers from Jehovah's people." Does that mean that the act of building the branch buildings, was a means of placing national barriers within Jehovah's people?
If the GB were planning to "go digital" why didn't they use the funds that were spent on printing the revised version of the New World Translation, to fund the provision of electronic tablets for congregation members? (This is a question that I have heard several elderly ones ask.)
Those are the highlights for me personally - if I think of any more I'll post them as they come to mind.
I also have to credit Kate Wild for coining the phrase "the everlasting loan" - I saw that phrase on the forum a little while ago but couldn't remember who used it. -
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What comforts you when you no longer believe in a ressurrection ?
by EdenOne inour family just lost someone dear and very close, a faithful jw.
as we went through the entire funeral services and meeting long time brothers and sisters, who in general have been very kind and warm towards us, we realize that the hope of resurrection is a meaningless utopia for us, like a fairytale for little children.
we don't have faith in it anymore, and serves us of no comfort.
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OzGirl
Hi EdenOne
Just wanted to say that I am sorry to hear about your loss. I keep a memorial garden in my yard for those whom I've lost in death. As each family member dies, I add a new flower to remember them (as Scully described in her post)
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34
Quick introduction
by OzGirl inonly have a few minutes to spare so thought i would throw this together.. been in for about 30 years.
questions and doubts gathered over that time.
i have a keen interest in the legal and financial matters of the watchtower.. came across this site about 5 years ago.
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OzGirl
Have to post a correction here - I made a blooper with the figures about the 1914 "equation." Sorry. Oops!
5 days x 2520 = 12600 days. If I worked that out correctly, that comes to 34 years and 190 days.
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34
Quick introduction
by OzGirl inonly have a few minutes to spare so thought i would throw this together.. been in for about 30 years.
questions and doubts gathered over that time.
i have a keen interest in the legal and financial matters of the watchtower.. came across this site about 5 years ago.
-
-
OzGirl
Continuing to address Magnum's request for more information on questions and doubts. I've already covered the financial questions in the previous posts so I'll write about the non-financial ones now. These points aren't in chronological order.
Changing the meaning of the word "generation" in 1995. That to me, is an admission that the 1914 teaching is wrong. And it is a point that was buried in a Watchtower study and covered in a couple of paragraphs. Like they slipped it in there and hoped that we wouldn't notice.
I worked out that the 1914 chronology was wrong when we were studying the Revelation Climax book for the second time through. The book study conductor was droning on one night - I had a huge day at work, that day - (deep sigh) So I started working on the "7 times = 2520 years" chronology "equation." The years are calculated on the idea of 360 days making up a prophetic year. However, a calendar year makes up 365 days. Yet the prophetic years are counted from 607 BCE as if they are calendar years. 5 days difference doesn't sound like very much. But 5 days x 2520 = 9600 days. If my calculations are right, that means that 9600 days works out to be 26 years and 110 days. So the 1914 chronology is short by 26 years and 110 days.
Also Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 BCE, but around 586/587 BCE, according to scholars. Haven't seen any historian ever put the date at 607 BCE.
"Overlapping generation" - where is the Biblical evidence to support this? If Jesus thought that there were going to be 2 "generations" wouldn't he have made that clear in the Bible? The GB are just making things up as they go along. Whatever sounds good at the time.
How could the Bible Students be appointed in 1919 as the faithful and discreet slave when they were still celebrating Christmas and other practices that they now frown upon? (Although "new light" has since come out on this point as their appointment and reward is now considered to be a future event.)
Why did it take over 90 years for the faithful and discreet slave class to figure out who they were and what their status was before Jehovah?
What purpose did it serve, to preach for over 90 years that the slave class had received its reward, when this event hadn't happened?
The Watchtower Society bases its "new light" concept on the scripture at Proverbs 4:18 ("The path of the righteous one gets brighter....") Where is the scriptural precedent to show that Jehovah gave false information as a temporary, stop-gap solution until the true and accurate information was made available?
The context of Proverbs chapter 4 is a comparison between the path of the righteous one and the path of the wicked one. It isn't about prophecy.
How many versions of the Mosaic Law are there? One. And the Mosaic Law is thousands of years old. It doesn't seem to get "new light"
The scripture about the "two witness" rule and the child abuse policies don't seem to get "new light" either.
Will post more doubts and questions later, in response to Magnum's request. -
34
Quick introduction
by OzGirl inonly have a few minutes to spare so thought i would throw this together.. been in for about 30 years.
questions and doubts gathered over that time.
i have a keen interest in the legal and financial matters of the watchtower.. came across this site about 5 years ago.
-
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OzGirl
Following on from the previous post.
I also think that the Watchtower Society does not have a viable business model. It is worth a lot of money in terms of assets but is short on "operational cash." (This is to be expected from an organisation that doesn't encourage its members to get higher education and find lucrative employment.) Branch buildings and property need to be sold to try and generate cash. But the funds obtained from these sales is only going to go so far.
Other corporations have to use such measures to survive financially also. But they are short-term or stop-gap solutions that keep a corporation afloat while it recovers from financial shortfalls.
The hedge fund investment, the sales of building and property as well as the "special monthly contribution" (one of the posters here called it "the everlasting loan" but I can't remember who they were) - all of these factors combined tell me that the Watchtower Society needs to generate vast amounts of money and they need to generate it in a short space of time. -
34
Quick introduction
by OzGirl inonly have a few minutes to spare so thought i would throw this together.. been in for about 30 years.
questions and doubts gathered over that time.
i have a keen interest in the legal and financial matters of the watchtower.. came across this site about 5 years ago.
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OzGirl
Thank you for the warm welcome.
Yes, I am Aussie. Not related to "Dorothy."
I am a convert and still attending meetings at this point in time (depending upon how my week is going.)
I agree with what SAHS wrote - I don't think I could have written that any better.
I'm just going to write about some of the financial issues for now. I'll write about other questions and doubts in a separate post.
When I first started attending assemblies, our congregation used to hold these in rented school halls. So I figured that some of the contributions would go to paying for the use of the rented hall for the weekend. So I would make a small contribution on these occasions.
Later on, the Assembly Hall was built. I continued to make small contributions whenever I attended. Then the Assembly Hall was paid off. I felt then that the amount needed for donations should go down, technically speaking from a financial point of view. Instead, the opposite happened and the amount required to cover the cost of each assembly went up. No explanation was given. From that point on, I stopped donating.
I also wondered why it was that each assembly started off with a deficit. So I started to track the finances for the circuit as I went to each assembly. There seemed to be a pattern and I wondered if our circuit was struggling financially. To test out this theory, I started attending assemblies in a different part of the circuit and tracking their finances. But I noticed the same pattern, each assembly started off with a deficit.
Another point that I wondered about was the Annual General Meeting report from the Watchtower Society. Whenever I read an Annual General Meeting report from any other corporation, it always contains the financial status and a breakdown of their figures. The first time I read the Annual General Meeting information in the Watchtower magazine, I wondered how they would forget to include the financial information. So I asked one of the brothers about the matter, and was told that "I don't need to worry about such things because the faithful and discreet slave handle important matters like that." (Is that so?)
When I learnt that the Watchtower Society was getting involved in hedge fund investment, the thought that went through my mind was: "Skating on thin ice here. Dangerous game - hedge fund investing." There are high returns in investment BUT there are high risks involved as well. There isn't very much margin for error. I also do not understand how it is possible for an organisation to retain a non-profit, tax-exempt status and yet at the same time, be involved in hedge fund investment.
I'll write about other doubts and questions as time permits. -
34
Quick introduction
by OzGirl inonly have a few minutes to spare so thought i would throw this together.. been in for about 30 years.
questions and doubts gathered over that time.
i have a keen interest in the legal and financial matters of the watchtower.. came across this site about 5 years ago.
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OzGirl
Only have a few minutes to spare so thought I would throw this together.
Been in for about 30 years. Questions and doubts gathered over that time. I have a keen interest in the legal and financial matters of the Watchtower.
Came across this site about 5 years ago. Since I had never participated on a forum before, I was feeling hesitant about joining up so I went elsewhere. The threads that focused on the legal and financial matters drew my attention, though, and I've continued to return to read them.
I don't have any new information to add. More of a reader than a poster. I'm busy with work and other projects so I don't always have time to be at the computer.