When it comes to the WTS, Barb Anderson and Kim Norris are comparable to the MOAB:
Posts by hawkaw
-
52MAJOR AP ARTICLE ON JWs CHILD ABUSE ISSUE GOES NATIONWIDE IN USA
by hawkaw in------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- religion today
but a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of jehovah's witnesses.. .
religion today.
-
-
-
16
How my cult minded husband feels about sexual abuse and Silentlambs.
by kls inyes here is another story about my cult minded husband,but this one really blew me away.
the silentlambs caucus that was recently in nashville was in our local paper last sunday.
i saw the article before my husband did so i knew what it said.
-
-
hawkaw
Don't have a war with him. You can't win a "pi$$ing" contest with a skunk.
Continue to stay in a very non confrontational questioning style and never loose your cool. If you can, let him bring an issue and not you.
There is a very good chance he might not come out of the "fog". But give it time and you may be surprised. I have watched over the years ones come out - so it does happen with time and patience. Its good you can come to this board and sound off to us instead of him.
The point about the associated NGO status with the UN's DPI is that it is an "offence" under the JWs doctrine to "partner" with the UN as an "associated NGO" (example - Their Refuge - A Lie! article in the 1991 WT magazine clearly identified that only false religion would partner with the beast through the NGO associations at the UN and that JWs would never do that!!!!!). JWs died in Malawi and were imprisoned in many countries following the leadership's wishes when it came to political neutrality. The DPI Directories show the leadership knew of the partnership. This is hypocrisy and based on the Nov. 15, 2001 article on hypocrisy, anyone who practices it including the JW leadership would not be part of God's Chosen organization. You can't be a faithful and discreet slave [emphasis added on discreet] when you partner with the UN for no matter what the reason. Note that "discreet" word. Also Remember that the "you are allowed to lie doctrine" (theocratic warfare) only allows for "lying by omission" and nothing else.
hawk
-
52
MAJOR AP ARTICLE ON JWs CHILD ABUSE ISSUE GOES NATIONWIDE IN USA
by hawkaw in------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- religion today
but a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of jehovah's witnesses.. .
religion today.
-
-
hawkaw
BTTT
hawk
-
52
MAJOR AP ARTICLE ON JWs CHILD ABUSE ISSUE GOES NATIONWIDE IN USA
by hawkaw in------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- religion today
but a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of jehovah's witnesses.. .
religion today.
-
-
hawkaw
BTTT
hawk
-
52
MAJOR AP ARTICLE ON JWs CHILD ABUSE ISSUE GOES NATIONWIDE IN USA
by hawkaw in------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- religion today
but a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of jehovah's witnesses.. .
religion today.
-
-
hawkaw
BTTT
-
52
MAJOR AP ARTICLE ON JWs CHILD ABUSE ISSUE GOES NATIONWIDE IN USA
by hawkaw in------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- religion today
but a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of jehovah's witnesses.. .
religion today.
-
-
hawkaw
Your thoughts are not out of line.
I am off for the weekend folks. Maybe a few of you can keep "bumping" this for a little while.
Thanks for your help in advance.
hawk
-
11
New photos at Quotes website
by Quotes ini have a new page at the quotes site: .
russell grave: http://quotes.watchtower.ca/russell_grave.htm.
i realize this is not a new item, however i felt it was important to add it to the quotes archive.
-
-
hawkaw
Way "Kool".
-
52
MAJOR AP ARTICLE ON JWs CHILD ABUSE ISSUE GOES NATIONWIDE IN USA
by hawkaw in------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- religion today
but a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of jehovah's witnesses.. .
religion today.
-
-
hawkaw
My 2 cents,
I have always enjoyed your 2 cents.
at first I thought this letter did not have the damning effect that you posted. But upon consideration, I realized that I'm coming from a different angle than some and I'm always thinking of whether or not something is damning in the eyes of an active JW whereas your work focuses on creating external legal and public pressure on the WT.
You are correct on my thinking. I am into vaccinating the "base" and pressing the financial button.
To me, the 2 witness rule is irrelevant. I could care less how the elders judge someone. My problem is with their reporting policy and would like to see all accusations handed over to the authorities. I wish either the WT would be proactive and change their policy or that the states in the US that do NOT require this would catch up to the modern awareness of this problem and require it.
I dealt with this first hand watching Vicki Boer go through her court case. Her case clearly quantifies your point. If they had just reported it properly and let the authorities handled it instead of them handling it, the case would have never happened. However, I should say that how the elder's judged her (using the WTS policy) in the confrontations did actually turn out to harm her.
I think the JWs two witness rule for DFing is completely within their realm of freedom of worship, especially since they have conceded to allowing two single witnesses from two single accounts in the case of sexual offenses. But their unwillingness to report accusations of such an illegal abhorence is damaging to society and people in general. That is what I would like to see changed.
I would like that changed. But there are many aspects of the policy that need changing or need to be created. Where I live, in Ontario, Canada my place of employment was taken to task for a screw up in public water quality that cost the lives of little children. The words of His Honour (Justice O'Connor - who I have met with) in recommending solutions to prevent that disaster from happening again seem to come to me all the time when I look at this issue. His words were ... "The best way to achieve a healthy public water supply is to put in place multiple barriers that keep water contaminants from reaching people" (Walkerton Report Part 2, Chapter 3, page 72). Its clear to me that if the GB adopted a "multi-barrier" approach for child abuse from reporting, educating, spirtual gudiance to whatever etc. with proper checks and balances, then I think kids and the public at large would be protected. They are definitely tough approaches to take that are not quick fixes, do cost money, time and patience. But, hey if you want people to stay in your Organization and you want a base to recruit from that won't be angry at you, then it is well worth the effort.
If any JW says that the WT is just following caesar's law, then they should be reminded that the law was created for confidentiality of Christendom's tradition of confessions to priests which JWs do not practice, so they are participating and abusing a law created for Christendom, not "true Christians." Again, just my 2 cents on a very personal issue against the WT.
Agreed
hawk
-
52
MAJOR AP ARTICLE ON JWs CHILD ABUSE ISSUE GOES NATIONWIDE IN USA
by hawkaw in------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- religion today
but a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of jehovah's witnesses.. .
religion today.
-
-
hawkaw
I still cannot get a grasp on why certain papers who do indeed subscribe to the AP wire, get this news and STILL do not print it.
I hear you and have had bouts of that too during the Boer trial no mater how I spun it. To this day I still wonder where the hell the Star was. Its an editoral thing and its a section thing .... What stories in the section (usually the National section) will sell the most newspapers.
hawk
-
52
MAJOR AP ARTICLE ON JWs CHILD ABUSE ISSUE GOES NATIONWIDE IN USA
by hawkaw in------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- religion today
but a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of jehovah's witnesses.. .
religion today.
-
-
hawkaw
I know this has been posted already but I am not sure if it is being absorbed or not or the significance. This was probably one of the best articles yet written on this and even Barb Anderson stepped out of the "silence" of her court case to help out. The comment by WT attorney Brumley is a killer and yet nobody has chewed on it. This is too important an article for people to have missed and thus I am reposting it. The Tennessee newpaper around Barb's place has picked it up and its really a huge column inch wise. Laurie Goodstein at the NY Times has read it too and was happy that Richard Ostling was there and has done these articles. Laurie's newpaper (only the biggest in the country) had it on the AP ticker yesterday as well. It makes quite an impression. This is a terrific article that people including Bill, Heather, Kim Norris and Barb did and it's a damning article too.
I would just like to take this opportunity and thank all of you for setting differences aside and coming together to do one of the best written pieces I have ever read on this issue. You guys kicked a$$ in my not so humble opinion.
hawk
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Religion today
By Richard N. Ostling, AP Religion Writer, 4/1/2004
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- They're an all-volunteer organization with little money, and could only muster two dozen attendees to their first national meeting last weekend. But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Founder William Bowen says silentlambs exists to educate the public and "give a voice to survivors of child sexual abuse that had been silenced by the institution of Jehovah's Witnesses."
The group claims rules of the Witnesses protect child molesters: The Witnesses, however, insist that they are committed to doing everything their faith allows to prevent abuse.
Meanwhile, the whole situation highlights the fact that, while the clergy sex abuse crisis in the Roman Catholic Church has dominated headlines the past two years, smaller American religious bodies are dealing with variations on the same problem.
The Hare Krishnas, with 100,000 devotees in the United States and Canada, are working on a settlement with 540 students who claim they were abused in boarding schools while their parents were practicing the faith by chanting and begging. A $400 million suit by 91 of them drove the Hindu group into bankruptcy.
In a trial scheduled to open Monday in Marshall, Texas, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America agencies, including an Ohio seminary, are charged with negligence in ordaining a pastor who molested 14 boys.
And the upcoming Presbyterian Church (USA) assembly will discuss rules to tighten handling of abuse allegations after a case in which a missionary molested 19 girls.
The Jehovah's Witnesses dispute involves a highly insular community of 1 million U.S. followers of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, whose unique doctrines include a belief that the end times are imminent. Adherents are famed for door-to-door distribution of Awake! and Watchtower magazines.
The Governing Body at Brooklyn, N.Y., headquarters commands not only an obedient flock but formidable finances and a corps of trial-hardened attorneys.
Their opponents are motivated by what some say is a problem comparable with, or even worse than, the scale of abuse by Catholic clergy.
Bowen founded silentlambs three years ago after he quit as an elder in Draffenville, Ky., saying Watchtower took no action against an alleged molester. He charged that the group's rules created a "pedophile paradise."
The central issue is the Witnesses' policy of first bringing accusations of any sin to local elders. If an accused person denies the charge, two credible witnesses are required to establish guilt -- due to literal application of such Bible verses as Deuteronomy 19:15 ("only on the evidence of two witnesses, or of three witnesses, shall a charge be sustained").
Philip Brumley, Watchtower's general counsel, says his religion cannot alter its beliefs and doubts secular courts will demand this.
"Do you change doctrine because someone feels something is more convenient, even if it's not in harmony with Scripture?" he asks.
But getting two witnesses in a molestation case "just goes off the scale of improbability," Bowen says.
And if two witnesses are lacking, the accused is deemed innocent, charges remain confidential and -- silentlambs says -- parents who warn others are subject to disfellowshipping for slander.
Disfellowshipping -- also the fate of some silentlambs whistle-blowers -- is an extreme penalty that means a total cutoff of relationships by family members, friends and business associates who are Witnesses. Silentlambs notes that during the Catholic crisis, no parishioner has been penalized for raising complaints.
Former Witness Heather Berry, of Claremont, N.H., said that when she was molested by her father, a "ministerial servant" in the congregation, local elders told her mother "to pray more and Jehovah would take care of it." Others at the Nashville meeting of silentlambs had similar stories.
Often "the victim is taken to a back room with guys who don't know diddly-squat about rape investigation," complains Bowen, who insists all allegations should be referred immediately to police.
Silentlambs also says Witnesses discourage police involvement because they believe Satan controls everything outside the faith.
However, official Watchtower policy states that victims have the right to file secular charges, and that elders report allegations to police where state laws require this.
Witnesses headquarters says it must follow what the Bible teaches, and that includes the belief that "child abuse is abhorrent." It points to a 1997 Watchtower article stating that, except for a few instances, proven molesters are barred from congregational leadership or full-time work.
The conflict escalated in mid-2002 when Kimberlee Norris, a tenacious Fort Worth, Texas, attorney, began working full-time on Witnesses litigation. She has since filed suits for 47 alleged victims in California, Nevada, Oregon and Texas, with 20 more cases in the pipeline.
Norris targets Watchtower organizations and alleged abusers who are leaders in local congregations. She told the silentlambs she culled the strongest cases from 2,000 people who contacted her, making accusations against 729 Witnesses.
She says the Witnesses' policy will change only when "the cost is too much, in the court of law or in the court of public opinion."
Eventually, Norris plans to get testimony from Barbara Anderson of Tullahoma, Tenn. Now disfellowshipped, Anderson says that, while working as a Witnesses headquarters researcher, she compiled an inch-thick dossier about believers' child abuse and other psychological maladies that went to the Governing Body in 1992.
Says Anderson: "Yes, they knew (about abuse), and didn't do a thing about it."
------
On the Net:
Silentlambs: http://www.silentlambs.org
Jehovah's Witnesses official child protection memo:
http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm?contentbackground.htm
Links to news stories,Religion TodayThe Ledger, FL - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ...
Religion TodayKansas City Star (subscription), MO - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ...
Religion TodayBiloxi Sun Herald, MS - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ...
Religion Today Religion TodayWichita Eagle, KS - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ... Religion TodayJournal Gazette, IN - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ... Religion TodayMiami Herald, FL - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ... Religion TodayNews Sentinel, IN - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ... Religion TodayTuscaloosa News (subscription), AL - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ... Religion TodayWorcester Telegram, MA - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ... Religion TodayFort Worth Star Telegram, TX - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ... Religion TodayAkron Beacon Journal, OH - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ... Religion TodayDuluth News Tribune, MN - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ... Religion TodayCentre Daily es, A - 8 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ... Jehovah's Witnesses join the US religions facing key molestation ... rovidence Journal (subscription), RI - 3 hours ago... But a group called silentlambs has still gained visibility in its campaign to change the sexual abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses. ...