Posts by milligal

68

Suing the tower

by Tired of the Hypocrisy in

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/157788/1.ashx.

in the above thread, otwo made a comment about how someone might sue the wt based on their shunning policy.

i have not seen the topic discussed here and have been unsuccessful in getting the search function of the site to gather information about it, but i wonder if we as a group could sue the washtowel society.

milligal

I think it's time for me to let this go. I just want to say in one final hurrah-everyone's right to religious freedom is important and can be upheld by law: it would be harder to prove that someone who chose to be a JW THEN got df'd has suffered the same amount of victimization as someone who was raised a JW and later shunned for choosing another way of life. I find it interesting that none of the naysayers so far, have specifically commented on the basis of a law suit defendeding the right to religous freedom of minors in this situation.

Yes, it would cost money, time, effort, energy etc. etc. I think we all agree on this. However, the wtbts is not the messenger of God and somehow devoid of public responsibility for their actions against the civil rights of the American public. I would just ask those with such strong opinions against 'suing the tower' to consider whether this "feeling" (as this is all you've shown me it is) is based upon your prior doctrinization into the cult and not wanting to be called apostate or anything close because of JW relatives....I could be way off on that one.

Thanks for a lively exchange.

68

Suing the tower

by Tired of the Hypocrisy in

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/157788/1.ashx.

in the above thread, otwo made a comment about how someone might sue the wt based on their shunning policy.

i have not seen the topic discussed here and have been unsuccessful in getting the search function of the site to gather information about it, but i wonder if we as a group could sue the washtowel society.

milligal

John Doe I'm sorry I cannot figure out the quote and respond function so far. I wanted to respond to your comment about unethical behavior and providing hope against an action happening that is unrealistic. You can end this discussion by responding to me with legal research and good case law indicating that a suit filed against wtbts in each of the states would be rejected. If you cannot prove accross the board that this suit or any suit with relating issues would not be heard, then you have no argument. Once in a Judge's hands, no one can say where it would go.

Secondly, with all due respect to those of you who have posted examples of cases that have not gone through, what I cannot say loudly enough for all to hear is :

Just because one specific reuquest was put through in one state, does not mean the topic is closed or **that this example qualifies as precedence**

A) many side issues off the same topic may be filed successfully

B) diiferent courts have different leanings per the state they represent, you will get different rulings in Texas state courts both civillay and criminally than in New Jersy state courts which are typically more liberal.

Finally, I do not control anyone's response to what they read here. You can read it and take hope, or you can read it and be irritated. My main goal is that you read it and understand that factually and realistically speaking, the US legal system does not operate the way the wtbts does. Anyone can pursue an issue they see as relevant and if they have a good attorney who understand the law, the paperwork, and can argue well, they have as good a chance as anyone at success. I think I speak for many here when I say simply opening the topic for the court system and the public to examine is itself a 'win'.

68

Suing the tower

by Tired of the Hypocrisy in

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/157788/1.ashx.

in the above thread, otwo made a comment about how someone might sue the wt based on their shunning policy.

i have not seen the topic discussed here and have been unsuccessful in getting the search function of the site to gather information about it, but i wonder if we as a group could sue the washtowel society.

milligal

I just have one more thing to say here about my previous post: you can attack me personally, my mispelled writing (apologies all around!) or try to make anyone who comes out with this idea feel like a prick. But, unless you can give me some substance, some documentation, some factual arguments to support your responses, then all I can think is that you are offering your opinions-nothing more. I can't argue opinions, you are welcome to them, but clearly opinions are not food for thought to the critical thinker-unless they are a politician.

68

Suing the tower

by Tired of the Hypocrisy in

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/157788/1.ashx.

in the above thread, otwo made a comment about how someone might sue the wt based on their shunning policy.

i have not seen the topic discussed here and have been unsuccessful in getting the search function of the site to gather information about it, but i wonder if we as a group could sue the washtowel society.

milligal

Well, I'm not trying to get in anyone's face here, so my response will be based on the body of the discussion and no one person posting. I'm saying this because I'm new here and I don't want to start off on the wrong foot....everyone has a right to their opinion.

When the assertion is made that anyone who wants to sue is playing the role of victim-that is a personal opinion or feeling and cannot be debated. It is also not a good argument to put anyone thinking about suing, off of the idea. A good argument is supported by substantiated facts, not by insibuation or name calling.

As far as any precedent being set, the legal system works like this: if you file a greivance in a state where the topic has never been heard before, there is no precedence and the court (if it finds basis after the discovery period) can hear the complaint. If a precendent has been set in a higher court, either in the state or the land (such as Supreme Court) the greivance can STILL BE filed if it can be shown to the court that this specific subject matter has not been addressed or the decision is no longer considered 'good law': such as the treatment of individuals baptized as minors. A blanket statement that there is already precedence in this area-is not accurate. That opinion is up to a Judge to decide-and no one, not even the arguing counsel can say what would be decided.

Finally, in regards to the argument that this topic is a waste of time, unattainable or otherwise an insult to the intelligence of anyone entertaining it;

"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his personal safety; is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."-John Stuart Mill

This is America-we deserve to have our rights upheld. We deserve to be able to worship-or not worship freely without being followed, harassed, having our businesses affected, being cut off from ourr families. Anyone who thinks it is within the rights of the JW's to treat people with such utter lack of humanity, has forgotten what country they live in. If we don't fight for that, then we have no one to blame but ourselves.

68

Suing the tower

by Tired of the Hypocrisy in

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/157788/1.ashx.

in the above thread, otwo made a comment about how someone might sue the wt based on their shunning policy.

i have not seen the topic discussed here and have been unsuccessful in getting the search function of the site to gather information about it, but i wonder if we as a group could sue the washtowel society.

milligal

John Doe are you an attorney? Maybe this is inappropriate to ask, but I wondered what criteria/experience/education you are basing your opinion on. With that being said you must also know that attorney's would hold differing opinions on this topic. It's not a question of 'can it be done' but 'what would be involved and are the resources available to complete the task'. Attorney's don't promise wins or losses (if they do they are not experienced), they outline strategies, based on thier knowledge of the law, legal and jurisdictional precedence. Now if I'm not mistaken there are many states where no precedence has been set for this, it's open to any US citizen who feels his/her constitutional rights have been trampled to request the courts hear them on this matter.

You think it cannot be done? Read the 'Trial of the Century' by Frank Schmalleger. That is an example of artistic lawyer skills (as stomach wrenching as it is).

The wtbts settled out of court regarding the sexual abuse cover-ups last year, they also paid out millions in exchange for gag orders on the sex abuse victims. There is clearly reason for them doing this: they thought they'd lose/they didn't want the publicity. There is reason to think one of these inspirations might show itself again.

Now you're entitled to your opinion but I would appreciate not being called stupid for holding mine, which is clearly supported by intelligible evidence.

14

JW relatives....ughh

by milligal in

i'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this (sorry it's kind of long): both my husband and i are df'd.

both our families are active witnesses.

his family has decided to shun us 150% (you know what i mean, no phone calls even when you're dying).

milligal

Thank you all for your feedback-

I agree with those that posted about JW's not accepting your happiness while df'd. It unravels their entire theory about God blessing them, and turning his back on you. What's funny is that my JW mother thinks that my troubles with my ex is the fault of Satan (of course) she says he's testing me. I said 'mom, by your own teachings Satan's already got me, why would he continue working on me?' She had no reply to that.

As far as my hubby, this is a hard issue for us. I can't seem to say in any polite way that his mother is horrible and he should feel as angry as I do. I don't know what else to do but let him get there on his own.

14

JW relatives....ughh

by milligal in

i'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this (sorry it's kind of long): both my husband and i are df'd.

both our families are active witnesses.

his family has decided to shun us 150% (you know what i mean, no phone calls even when you're dying).

milligal

I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this (sorry it's kind of long): both my husband and I are df'd. Both our families are active witnesses. His family has decided to shun us 150% (you know what I mean, no phone calls even when you're dying). So, fine after several hurtful years we moved on and let them shun us. That wasn't good enough. My mother-in-law continues to try to get our attention by sending hurtful messages to us through non-JW relatives, like when my husband was about to deploy to Iraq she said he would be the first to die, or telling my 9 year old son (who is associated with the JW's through his dad) that his younger half brother is being kept away from her-by us. She actually cried in front of my son and made herself out to be the victim. She forbid my husband's sister from inviting him to her wedding and they instead, invited his ex-wife. Then his witness Aunt called him up and told him how beautiful his ex wife looked.

About two months ago, my mother-in-law sent a red cross message to my husband who was on an assignment in NY that his grandfather was dying. She has our phone numbers, she didn't need to make it all drama-red cross messages involve his chain of command. My husband asked me if he should go to his dying JW grandfather at his mother's request, it would cost us about $1000. I told him I couldn't decide that for him but life's a bitch isn't it? I mean these people have shunned us-all of them even when I was laying in the hospital having organ failure with my second son-not a peep out of them. Then they need something and we come running? Well he didn't wind up going.

My dilema is this; I wrote my mother-in-law a letter after she cornered my 9 year old son and I told her from here on out, the rules are that if you want anything to do with your grandchildren-you go through my husband. She crossed the line with me. Now, of course, she was HUGELY offended by this, how dare I-right? She should absolutely be allowed to shun, and insult us and play mind games with our children without any consequence. But my husband still defends her. He still hopes that someday he'll be able to take our children to see her. He tells me, I just don't know her (which is because she shuns me, but anyway...) We argue over this and I think it's insane.

Does anyone else deal with this? Do you just 'accept' how badly your JW relatives treat you? Do you try to set your own rules with them? How is it working?

68

Suing the tower

by Tired of the Hypocrisy in

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/157788/1.ashx.

in the above thread, otwo made a comment about how someone might sue the wt based on their shunning policy.

i have not seen the topic discussed here and have been unsuccessful in getting the search function of the site to gather information about it, but i wonder if we as a group could sue the washtowel society.

milligal

In my mind, the important thing here is that even if it were work intensive and involved, the final outcome would send a huge message to JW's and the outside world. Door to door work would be a little different with that kind of publicity. And, what kind of message would it send to wbts if suddenly they have to be aware of how they treat people-whether the suit wins or not. Look at how the elders followed me for weeks before disfellowshipping me in a grocery store parking lot. Shouldn't they have felt some restraint before harassing me?

Involving JW's in a legal suit would be like 'suing' them in itself. Think of all the uncomfortable elders, pioneers and ministerial servants subpoena'd and forced to defend their ridiculous behavior in front of a roomful of people who DON'T understand.

One thing I know from the last eight years in court with my ex 1-people HATE to go to court especially if they have to testify, it's a very intimidating experience 2-the legal expenses incurred by the neccessary defense are a burden and a form of retribution all by itself.

I disagree that this should be looked at as though it's an impossibility. It's just an issue that would deserve time and planning, but you have to believe that some things are worth the effort.

22

New family situation, and I'm HOT!!!

by bluesbreaker59 in

ok, so this morning i get a call from my aunt (active jw), in a panic.

she's telling me about what happened to her this weekend.

apparently my scumbag of an uncle (non-jw, he faded) came home drunk, and pushing her around, raising cane, and apparently hit her a few times.

milligal

BB59-

Here's the sad truth. My ex used to beat me (he was JW pioneer, ministerial servant yada yada yada). He was actually arrested and fined in court for domestic violence and abuse and neglect of a minor. He had to go to anger management which he referred to as his 'men's group'. Oh yeah, and he's still a witness-in good standing. The support I received from the congregation? The elders followed me to work and to the car dealership, Bibles in hand to tell me that God hates a divorcing. The JW's are a man led group, women have few rights. 'If he beats you, you married him, you made your bed...'

I truly feel for your Aunt. She is lucky to have you, since she will need some support and hopefully, this will be the beginning of a revelation to her. If she gets out she will have a chance at retreiving some of her dignity and sense of self worth. Best wishes.

By the way, it totally cracks me up that you call them the Borg. I'll have to use that one....

68

Suing the tower

by Tired of the Hypocrisy in

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/157788/1.ashx.

in the above thread, otwo made a comment about how someone might sue the wt based on their shunning policy.

i have not seen the topic discussed here and have been unsuccessful in getting the search function of the site to gather information about it, but i wonder if we as a group could sue the washtowel society.

milligal

Tired of Hypocrasy:

I'm studying to be a lawyer, ironically my inspiration came from a 7 year long custody battle with my JW ex. I have thought extensively about the question you raised. Here's my humble opinion: a lawsuit in this category would have to be filed under some form of denial of freedom of religion. This could probably be construed only if you were talking about children raised as witnesses-thus given no choice of what religion they would attest to and then being shunned for choosing a religion (or no religion) outside the JW's. Thus, their right to freedom of religion is being denied by JW's and enforced through obstruction of civil rights.

Next it would have to be proven that civil rights were being stepped on (not hard to do in this forum : ) but you'd really have to have some attorney's that were ambitious and on board. Civil rights are some of the hardest to prove in this category-especially since wbts would try to say that their freedom of religion and the right to disfellowship were being brought into question. You'd have to start the suit out on the other foot.

Finally, the suit would have to be filed initially within a state, and since this is a national issue -the state could be chosen according to liberal political views. Of course it would be appealed no matter what the ruling and you'd have to hope the Supreme Court would eventually hear it, because we all know how much JW's dislike negative publicity. In my opinion it would be worth it whether you won or lost just to bring some negative press their way. It would take years, and lots of money. Any further thoughts?

P.S. your picture is scary ; )