You want to see what that would like - try Iran
Gladring
JoinedPosts by Gladring
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5
"The dark ages" religious rulership set us back 1,000 years!!
by Witness 007 inimagine if the witnesses ruled the world!
something like this happened in the dark ages when science was banned by religion and the inqisition.
anyone coming up with "crazy" theories like the earth revolves aroung the sun faced death and science stalled for nearly 1,000 years.
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Atheists/Theists: What is the best argument FOR theism (a God's existence) you have heard?
by Spook ini have lived for the last 3 years with two phd philosophers as roomates, both in the last year of their dissertation at reputable institutions (notre dame, penn/uic respectively).
they are both moderate semi-christian theists after having been fundamentalists as youths.
i have a sceince and engineering background and am a naturalist atheist former jw.
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Gladring
Chalam, I find the definition of faith at Heb 11:1 problematical.
You acknowledge that your faith is built upon evidence. The Heb definition though says that faith is "being... certain of what we do not see." "Seeing" certainly is a form of evidence. You believe that you "see" God when looking at his creation. If belief or faith is simply a matter of looking at the evidence and reaching the obvious conclusion, then what exactly were the ancients of Heb 11 being praised for? Why are there so many conflicting truth claims of different faiths in the world?
As a Christian, you believe that the only way to attain salvation is through Christ. Do you understand that all other religions feel that they too have the very same reasons for believing that they do, that their claims are equally valid?
I understand that you feel that you have strong reasons for believing as you do, and I have no desire to undermine your beliefs. Do you acknowledge, though, that your reasons may not be convincing to other people? Your personal experience may convince you, but carries little weight with me. Speaking in tongues and faith healing may be easily faked and used to relieve the unsuspecting of their cash (I am not saying that is the case in your experience, just that it does happen). The Bible itself does not stand up to close examination. Why choose one book or tradition over another? Muslims believe that the Quran is the innerrant word of God - why not believe them?
Romans 1 says that the unbeliever is inexcusable, but do you not see that I have evidence to support my beliefs? Is it unreasonable to acknowledge and accept another person's point of view?
You mention that science changes its views over time (I'm not sure that the flat earth wasn't a religious claim, but it's not important right now). This is one of science's strong points - it is open to correction, and is self correcting. Religion is not open to correction. At times religion has been forced to adjust some of its claims about the world/universe by the forward momentum and increased understanding of the universe brought to us by science.
There are some spiritual teachings in many religions, but these are almost always lost beneath layers of dogma.
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Sacrifices ?
by need2no ini am new here--and am not sure if i have posted this in the right area ?
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i have often wondered why god need to have sacrifices ?.
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Gladring
If you've ever seen a documentary of animal sacrifice in africa or south america...not a pretty sight.
Restful odor my ass!
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Atheists/Theists: What is the best argument FOR theism (a God's existence) you have heard?
by Spook ini have lived for the last 3 years with two phd philosophers as roomates, both in the last year of their dissertation at reputable institutions (notre dame, penn/uic respectively).
they are both moderate semi-christian theists after having been fundamentalists as youths.
i have a sceince and engineering background and am a naturalist atheist former jw.
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Gladring
knowt to self... ;)
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Do not Disassociate, Anull your baptism
by jwfacts ini am now a jedi, so trust me on this.. .
why dis-associate, you are just playing by the wts rules?
how can you dis-associate anyway, you never thought you were baptised as a watchtower society member, you thought your dedication was to god, so why formally disassociate from something you did not formally join?
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Gladring
just musing...
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New QFR on May 1 WT reaffirms 1914 and talks about Satan's ouster from Heaven
by stillajwexelder inno matter how stupid, they can not drop 1914 - far too embarassing.
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Gladring
As I recall things, the whole reason that WW1 kicked off was that Satan was cast down and started to create a fuss. If he wasn't cast out until 1918, then who started WW1???
I'm being brief, but that's how I remember the teachings.
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Straight intellectualizing cannot lead to belief or faith in God !
by caliber ini have never just done complete word for word post without additional comments.
but this article is beautiful ..it would be a shame to add or subtract anything it is imo.
that well written (full due credit to the author listed below !!).
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Gladring
I have no problem with people believing, or having faith in any kind of weird stuff.
Write down your beliefs, ask other people to accept them with no evidence, get offended when someone questions those beliefs - This I have a problem with.
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Atheists/Theists: What is the best argument FOR theism (a God's existence) you have heard?
by Spook ini have lived for the last 3 years with two phd philosophers as roomates, both in the last year of their dissertation at reputable institutions (notre dame, penn/uic respectively).
they are both moderate semi-christian theists after having been fundamentalists as youths.
i have a sceince and engineering background and am a naturalist atheist former jw.
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Gladring
Several times this week I find myself reminded of a self-confessed, self brainwashed JW who I used to have deep conversations with. This elder was a deep thinker/feeler and had tied himself up in so many knowts to maintain his JW identity.
Several times, when the rubbish was brushed aside, at the bottom of his faith was a story like ....
..... If I was God, I would write the Bible in such a clever way that only those of the right heart condition could read and understand it.
He would quote "God's word is alive and exerts power ... dividing soul and spirit ..." etc.
He was a friend, and it's sad that he has himself so tied up. I do miss those kind of discussions, this board helps fill some of that need. "By iron, iron itself is sharpened". That's part of why I enjoy following these threads.
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Atheists/Theists: What is the best argument FOR theism (a God's existence) you have heard?
by Spook ini have lived for the last 3 years with two phd philosophers as roomates, both in the last year of their dissertation at reputable institutions (notre dame, penn/uic respectively).
they are both moderate semi-christian theists after having been fundamentalists as youths.
i have a sceince and engineering background and am a naturalist atheist former jw.
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Gladring
Hi Chalam,
You touch on a subject of interest to me - faith. Sometimes it seems to me that believers' definitions of faith are subject to change depending on the argument at hand. It is always useful to have terms defined at the outset of a discussion.
From your quotes from the book of Hebrews, may I take it that your definition of faith is "to believe something with no evidence"? This would appear to make faith somewhat immune from criticism or analysis. In practice though, believers often cite forms of evidence to support their belief. You mention some of these in your post. You say "He speaks and shows His presence through various ways, His Holy Spirit, creation, the bible, His people, circumstances and God-incidences..." These certainly are forms of evidence, and are open to review and criticism. Without a holy book, or personal intuition/feeling, what do you base your beliefs on?
There must be a starting point for faith, something to hang your hat on. No matter how thin, there must be something which appears reasonable to start from. To quote from Romans 10-
However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?
and...
So faith follows the thing heard. In turn the thing heard is through the word about Christ.
Certainly this word, or testimony, about Christ is a form of evidence - evidence which we may examine and judge as to trustworthiness and authority.
You also mention the "big questions". Some of those you mention science has answered, or is in the process of answering. Some may never be answered. What makes you think that belief, unsupported by evidence, will answer these questions? Without evidence, all you have is your opinion (which is sometimes dressed in holy garb, and called "faith").
I look forward to hearing your reply.
RAmen!
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83
Do not Disassociate, Anull your baptism
by jwfacts ini am now a jedi, so trust me on this.. .
why dis-associate, you are just playing by the wts rules?
how can you dis-associate anyway, you never thought you were baptised as a watchtower society member, you thought your dedication was to god, so why formally disassociate from something you did not formally join?
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Gladring
Just musing over this - I do wish that this was an option, but I agree with the posters that have expressed the opinion that it won't work.
I wonder though, what if one were to write a letter saying that you no longer recognise yourself as a member of the XXXXtown Congregation of Jehovah's witnesses? Would that stop the local body having authority over you? The congregations don't have the same legal resources as the WTBTS.
Thoughts anyone?