herbert

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Posts by herbert

• 
  63

  About Daniel Fitzwater-Exposed on Dateline

  by LFitzwater in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is a very long story that i will try to condense.

  it will still probably be too long.

  life is good for us now that we know the real truth.

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• 

  herbert

  email this pop\st to rodney stark and his colleagues, together with a link to the WTS media site.
• 

  DATELINE Go for the soft underbelly

  by herbert in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  imagine that you appear, as a non jw , but as a well known international expert, on the http://www.jw-media.org web site defending the dubs, after dateline tonite.

  what do you hope ?

  that your colleagues didn't watch dateline ???

• 

  herbert

  Imagine that you appear, as a non JW , but as a well known international expert, on the http://www.jw-media.org web site defending the Dubs, after Dateline tonite. What do you hope ? That your colleagues didn't watch Dateline ??? - as nasty as it seems, we have to spread the word, and quick, that a prominent Univ. Wash. Sociologist is right there, in lights, defending the dubs. It's public information..... http://www.soc.washington.edu/

  The UK cabinet minister Stephen Byers resigned mainly because of the slogan "Liar Byer." Well, how about Rodney the Brainless Watchtower Runner in honor of Warren Zevon, or, perhaps, Stark, the WT Nark.

  Let's do it - gnaw the soft underbelly....weas it Marx who said that ???

  h
• 

  Oatmeal's

  by herbert in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal good for assholes.

  lotsa roughage.

• 

  herbert

  reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal good for assholes. Lotsa roughage.
• 
  1

  Rodney Stark and JR Brown Feature

  by herbert in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the wts's defense re: dateline:.

  http://www.jw-media.org/.

  gail and brumley etc are here:.

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• 

  herbert

  in the WTS's defense re: dateline:

  http://www.jw-media.org/

  Gail and Brumley etc are here:

  http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=/vnr/default.htm

  I strongly suggest that we contact the Seattle press (Stark is Prof at UW, Seattle) and also Prince George's County where Gail is located to find find out if these individuals are being represented honestly by the WT Liars and Factless Society...

  herbert
• 

  Rod and Gail

  by herbert in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems to me that we might want to mail or email prof. rodney stark (univ.

  wash. seattle) and gail bethea-jackson; rod's at [email protected].

  gail is harder to track down, but her outfit is the pathfinder project, just search the web.. let's be respectful since i'm sure that the wts duped these good people one way or another.. now is not the time to be shrinking back, to be revelling in idle self-congratulation, or toying with the notion that, somehow the work is done, the battle over.

• 

  herbert

  It seems to me that we might want to mail or email Prof. Rodney Stark (Univ. Wash. Seattle) and Gail Bethea-Jackson; Rod's at [email protected]. Gail is harder to track down, but her outfit is the pathfinder project, just search the web.

  Let's be respectful since I'm sure that the WTS duped these good people one way or another.

  Now is not the time to be shrinking back, to be revelling in idle self-congratulation, or toying with the notion that, somehow the work is done, the battle over. Brothers - To the Fucking Field.

  herbert
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  22

  Dr. Bethea-Jackson

  by drahcir yarrum in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  excuse me!!!!

  i was alive and kicking 18-20 years ago and i didn't need a fucking study to clue me into the idea that sexually abusing children was harmful.

  harmful immediately and harmful in the long term.

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• 

  herbert

  Here's a copy of a letter I've been sending to a variety of journalists; I am certain that the WTS has somehow twisted what Rodney Stark and Gail Bethea-Jackson said, or taken their words totally out of context. Couldn't get the formatting to work quite right - it started out in raw html.

  herbert

  [p]Dear XX,

  [p]The NBC show Dateline is scheduled to devote this coming Tuesday's show to child abuse within the Jehovah's Witness (JW) (or Watchtower Society) community.

  [p][a href=" http://www.msnbc.com/news/dateline_front.asp?0NI=-38&ta=y
  "]Please see the "coming up on Dateline" section[/a]

  [p]Based on your reporting of recent episodes in the Catholic Church, I thought you might be interested in how the Jehovah's Witnesses are reacting to an ever growing number of similar incidents in their church. It is quite incredible; the WTS has somehow co-opted the help of fairly prominent individuals to produce web videos, designed to mislead the media, on their organization's web site.

  [p] These videos are no more than transparent attempts to whitewash the whole thing - essentially damage control after the fact. The intransigence and stupidity of the JW leaders is incredible given what's happened with the Catholic church.

  [p]Ihe latest video can be viewed here.

  [p][a href=" http://www.jw-media.org/vnr/2122827332/717263isdn.htm
  "]WT Video Release: Progressive Understanding[/a]

  [p]One particularly ridiculous excerpt is the following:

  [p]"People didn't have the body of knowledge 18 or 20 years ago to say that this is something that will harm your child emotionally, if you don't address it. Parents didn't know the seriousness ... and the long-term effects."[p]Some quotes supplied at the end of this email, from the WTS's own literature, put the lie to the claims made in this interview. Also, even a cursory search of the professional literature reveals that the seriousness of child sexual molestation - rape in plain words - has long been considered a serious problem with damaging effects. This video occurs alongside another by the prominent sociologist-of-religion Rodney Stark, who, in the following video also defends the JWs.

  [p][a href=" http://jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=/vnr/default.htm";]Rodney Stark Video: Education Through Publications[/a]

  [p]Certainly, WTS publications might sometimes appear to be very supportive of protecting the child, and, what they say may make some sense. That's just good PR. The basic problem, however, with the JWs is that if the abuse occurs at the hands of one of their own, their instinct, often enforced through the threat of excommunication, is to cover the matter up so as "not to bring reproach on Jehovah God's name" as they put it. Actually, that's just code for protecting the leaders.

  [p]More information on the scope of the problem of molestation in the religion can be found here:

  [p][a href=" http://www.silentlambs.org";]SilentLambs Website[/a]

  [p]The WTS has been in the news quite a bit recently; Stephen Bates of the UK newspaper, the Guardian, exposed the hypocrisy of the WTS in affiliating with the United Nations as an NGO while, at the same time, condemning both the UN and astonishingly, other religions for doing the same thing. However, JWs can be excommunicated for pointing out the hypocrisy of this.

  [p] Mr. Bates wrote an article for the Tablet last November on the UN scandal, in addition to several newspaper articles. It can be accessed here, although you may need to register (it's free).

  [p][a href=" http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi?tablet-00577
  "]Tablet article[/a]

  [p]Sincerely,

  [p]**************************************************

  [p] Watchtower Quotes re: Child Abuse from 18 - 20 years ago

  [p]Here are several excerpts from articles written 17 to 20 years ago. The articles are quite lengthy. But is fairly evident that the WTS knew what the experts in this field recommended.

  [p]An excerpt from twenty (20) years ago:

  [p]June 22, 1982 Awake page 10, Rape at Home
  [p]

  Incest is probably the most selfish and reprehensible kind of child abuse. It is a grotesque violation of the child's trust and dependency. It is the child's closest protector that is turning on it. And the child is a damaged victim. I have never knowingly talked to a happy, well-adjusted, unconcerned incest victim, said Dr. Suzanne Sgroi, former chairman of the Sexual Trauma Treatment Program.

  [p]Dr. Judianne Densen-Gerber, director of Odyssey Institute in New York city, says: In my own practice I have the hardest time imaginable treating these children who suffer from incest, even more than the kids who are battered, abused, set on fire, and whipped because at least those children dont confuse whats being done to them with love. The parent who sexually uses a child while telling him, I love you, is raising a child who will be afraid to establish rapport, trust, and engagement with anyone else in his life, even with the therapist, because unlike the beaten child, he doesnt seek affection, he fears affection and becomes extremely isolated.

  [p]An excerpt from nineteen (19) years ago:

  [p]October 1, 1983 Watchtower page 27, Help for the Victims of Incest
  [p]

  Incestuous child abuse is sexual abuse of children by an older relative. Usually, it is by a male relativesuch as a father, stepfather, uncle or older brother. Sometimes, but much more rarely, it is by a female relative. According to the book The Silent Children, incestuous abuse can range from improper fondling to oral-genital contact to intercourse. Of course, affectionate physical contact between children and older people is proper. But when the older person finds these contacts arousing, or when he does things alone with the child that he would not do if the childs mother were present, this will likely lead to sexual abuse of the child.

  [p]FOR most of her life Rachel has been ridden with guilt, convinced of her own worthlessness, and trapped in a sense of hopeless isolation. What could so blemish the life of a British housewife and mother

  [p]A 16-year-old girl from California said: I now have a pain deep in my heart that will never go away, and it hurts, truly hurts.

  [p]An excerpt from seventeen (17) years ago

  [p]January 22, 1985 Awake pages 3-4, Child Molesting-Every Mother's Nightmare--A Widespread Problem

  [p]

  The fact is, sexual molestation of children has been going on for a long time and today it is widespread. In 1983, the head of New York Citys Advisory Task Force on Rape reported a dramatic increase in the number of young children who are victims of rape, incest, and other forms of sexual abuse. Dr. David Finkelhor of the Family Violence Research Program at the University of New Hampshire conducted a large-scale study of the subject. He found that the children of 9 percent of the parents interviewed had been sexually abused. Fifteen percent of the women and 6 percent of the men had themselves been sexually abused as children!

  [p]Exact statistics are difficult to come by. In the United States, the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect has records of 55,399 cases of children being sexually molested in one year. But these are only cases of incestuous abuse. Abuse by friends, neighbors, teachers, and so forth as well as by strangers would increase that figure to a considerable extent. And a spokesman for the Child Welfare League of America told Awake! that the figures we have are only the tip of the iceberg.

  [p]A report in the magazine Ladies Home Journal estimates: Sexual abuse of young girls is four times more common than rape of adult women. Between the ages of five and 13, one in four little girls falls prey to some form of sexual abuse by adults whether it be exhibitionism, inappropriate fondling, rape, or incest. Although young females are the most common victims, 20 to 25 percent of those attacked are little boys.

  [p]Doctors are convinced of the harmful and long-term effects of such abuse. Hence, parents wonder: Are my children at risk What steps can I take to protect them What sort of person would try to harm them[/quote]
• 
  11

  JW's at McD's

  by beckyboop in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i just wanted to share a quick experience that happened to me on our way home to providence ri from iowa.

  we had stopped at a mcd's in connecticut for me ("tiny tanks") to go potty.

  as i was returning to the car, 2 different older gentlemen approached me with the magazines.

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  herbert

  I think the point beckyboop is making is not that there are pedophiles in the JW religion - there are, and it brings no shame on the <i>religion</i>, or JWs in general that they exist (except in the warped minds of the GB). The shame comes from how these situations are handled. That, I believe, is the point being made by beckyboop. The charge is not that there are many or few pedophiles, but when the problem emerges it isn't handled correctly. Ergo, the congregations tend to harbor pedophiles.

  No one would really fault the Catholic Church had it removed pedophile priests from their positions and made sure that they were dealt with properly - although it could be argued that their celibacy rules might serve to attract pedophiles to positions as priests. Though I doubt that the celibacy rules actually cause individuals to become pedophiles.

  herbert
• 
  22

  2 WITNESSES NEEDED

  by crawdad2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's why children are suffering.... dueteronomy 19:15 says...........no single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or a sin, in the case of any sin that he may commit.. at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good.

  16. in case a witness scheming violence should rise up against a man to bring a charge of revolt against him, 17. the two men that have the dispute must also stand before jehovah, before the priests and the judges, who will be acting in those days.

  18 and the judges must search thoroughly, and if the witness is a false charge against his brother.

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  herbert

  Of course, the WTS conveniently forgets that Christians were freed from observance of the Mosaic Law. In fact, pharisaical-minded Jewish Christians in the 1st cebtury were roundly condemned for attempting to impose the Law on the congregation.
• 

  Posted on NYT Religion in America TalkBoard

  by herbert in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here: http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/[email protected]^[email protected].

  message 16055. the links are live on the talkboard;.

  the nbc show dateline is scheduled to devote this coming tuesday's show to child abuse within the jehovah's witness (jw) (or watchtower society)community.

• 

  herbert

  here: http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?11@183.2lcoaHFdLg3^[email protected]

  Message 16055. The links are live on the talkboard;

  The NBC show Dateline is scheduled to devote this coming Tuesday's show to child abuse within the Jehovah's Witness (JW) (or Watchtower Society)community.

  Coming up on Dateline

  Of course, much attention is currently being given to child molestation by Catholic priests,
  and rightly so. However, what is happening in the Jehovah's Witness religion is, in some
  ways even more disturbing, if only because victims and their families have officially been
  excommunicated for contacting the authorities, or criticizing the way the religion handles
  the problem of child molestation.

  It's interesting - and disturbing - how the Jehovah's Witnesses are reacting to an ever
  growing number of molestation incidents, going a long way back, in their church. It is quite
  incredible; the WTS has somehow co-opted - most likely through misinformation and
  deception - the help of fairly prominent individuals to produce web videos, designed to
  put an entirely dishonest spin on this problem, on their organization's web site.

  These videos are no more than transparent attempts to whitewash the whole thing -
  essentially damage control after the fact. The intransigence and stupidity of the JW leaders
  is incredible given what's happened with the Catholic church.

  Ihe latest video can be viewed here.

  WT Video Release: Progressive Understanding

  One particularly ridiculous excerpt is the following:

  "People didn't have the body of knowledge 18 or 20 years ago to say that this is
  something that will harm your child emotionally, if you don't address it. Parents
  didn't know the seriousness ... and the long-term effects."

  The WTS's own literature from 20 years back, put the lie to the claims made in this
  interview, since they were happy to fault other religions back then for what they were
  covering up as well. Also, even a cursory search of the professional literature reveals that
  the seriousness of child sexual molestation has long been considered a serious problem
  with damaging effects. This video occurs alongside another by the prominent
  sociologist-of-religion Rodney Stark;

  Rodney Stark Video: Education Through Publications

  Certainly, WTS publications might sometimes appear to be very supportive of protecting
  the child, and, what they say may make some sense. That's just good PR. The basic
  problem, however, with the JWs is that if the abuse occurs at the hands of one of their
  own, their instinct, often enforced through the threat of excommunication, is to cover the
  matter up so as "not to bring reproach on Jehovah God's name" as they put it. Actually,
  that's just code for protecting the leaders.

  More information on the scope of the problem of molestation in the religion can be found
  here:

  SilentLambs Website
• 
  24

  JWS Definitely Know About Dateline!!!!

  by MarchOn in

  1. social
  2. current

  if they did not know before this past friday's airing of dateline they do now.

  dateline previewed this tuesday's show.

  my jw mom calls me the next morning to tell me about it.

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  herbert

  Kenneson,

  Good idea. Here's the New York Times' talkboard on Religion in America. http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?50@@.f2a8e64

  herbert