passwordprotected

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Posts by passwordprotected

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  69

  Can you be an atheist and believe in logic and maths?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheists are, by definition, naturalistic materialists; i.e.

  they believe that only the physical universe exists, only the nature exists therefore there is no supernatural and certainly no god.. can you, therefore, be an atheist but believe in logic and maths?

  they're also not made of matter.. is it true to say, then, that the atheist worldview is contradictory?

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  passwordprotected

  So, did gravity change? no, but the way we humans understood it did once we had more information to figure it out. Our local measurements and experiments worked fine (and we still use the "old" math for calculations that are purely local in nature since they work).

  Next question?

  So the laws of science don't change and they're also not made of matter. Yet I'm guessing you believe that all that exists is ever-changing matter (i.e constantly evolving things). Doesn't the fact that the laws of science are immaterial and unchanging contradict your worldview? And doesn't that contradiction (remember the law of the excluded middle) mean your worldview is false?
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  69

  Can you be an atheist and believe in logic and maths?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheists are, by definition, naturalistic materialists; i.e.

  they believe that only the physical universe exists, only the nature exists therefore there is no supernatural and certainly no god.. can you, therefore, be an atheist but believe in logic and maths?

  they're also not made of matter.. is it true to say, then, that the atheist worldview is contradictory?

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  passwordprotected

  I hope Perry finds his way to this thread and you two can laugh at how closed-minded people who disagree with you guys are.
  I just hope that you and Perry agree, otherwise you will have to call each other closed-minded.

  Surely you can see that resorting to ad hominem attacks doesn't strengthen what you're saying. I'm open minded enough to consider whether the naturalist materialistic world view has any validity or not.

  I recognise that claiming that all that exists are things is a worldview that doesn't have any sustainability to it as logic and reason need to be applied to the evidence to form a conclusion. And logic and reason aren't things.
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  69

  Can you be an atheist and believe in logic and maths?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheists are, by definition, naturalistic materialists; i.e.

  they believe that only the physical universe exists, only the nature exists therefore there is no supernatural and certainly no god.. can you, therefore, be an atheist but believe in logic and maths?

  they're also not made of matter.. is it true to say, then, that the atheist worldview is contradictory?

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  passwordprotected

  But....science knows this.

  How does science know this if all that exists is matter?
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  69

  Can you be an atheist and believe in logic and maths?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheists are, by definition, naturalistic materialists; i.e.

  they believe that only the physical universe exists, only the nature exists therefore there is no supernatural and certainly no god.. can you, therefore, be an atheist but believe in logic and maths?

  they're also not made of matter.. is it true to say, then, that the atheist worldview is contradictory?

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  passwordprotected

  Things which exist are measurable phenomena.

  Show me a pint of logic.
• 
  69

  Can you be an atheist and believe in logic and maths?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheists are, by definition, naturalistic materialists; i.e.

  they believe that only the physical universe exists, only the nature exists therefore there is no supernatural and certainly no god.. can you, therefore, be an atheist but believe in logic and maths?

  they're also not made of matter.. is it true to say, then, that the atheist worldview is contradictory?

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  2. 
  3. 
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  passwordprotected

  You are creating a false dichotomy

  No I'm not. Read what I'm actually asking.

  Consider the law of “excluded middle” which says that a proposition is either true or false, there is no third option. What is the ontological foundation of this law? Is this law just a result of the chemical functions in our brain? If so then how is it universal? Is the law material? Of course not! Laws of logic are immaterial abstract entities, the very things that cannot exist if the only thing that exists is matter.
  
  Dan Barker, in a debate with Dr. James White, attempted to refute this argument by saying that “logic is not a thing.” Well if by thinghe means a physical object then I would agree with him. The problem is that he already said that thingsare all that exist. So according to Dan Barker there is no logic.

  Therefore, either all that exists is matter, constantly changing, or it isn't. A natural materialist has to borrow from someone else's worldview in order to prove what they believe. This contradicts their worldview and as a result makes it false.
• 
  69

  Can you be an atheist and believe in logic and maths?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheists are, by definition, naturalistic materialists; i.e.

  they believe that only the physical universe exists, only the nature exists therefore there is no supernatural and certainly no god.. can you, therefore, be an atheist but believe in logic and maths?

  they're also not made of matter.. is it true to say, then, that the atheist worldview is contradictory?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  passwordprotected

  Math has many branches including the use of irrational numbers.

  In those instances, are the numbers consistently irrational? You see, how would understanding anything work without there being constant and unchanging laws?
• 
  69

  Can you be an atheist and believe in logic and maths?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheists are, by definition, naturalistic materialists; i.e.

  they believe that only the physical universe exists, only the nature exists therefore there is no supernatural and certainly no god.. can you, therefore, be an atheist but believe in logic and maths?

  they're also not made of matter.. is it true to say, then, that the atheist worldview is contradictory?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  passwordprotected

  Setting aside the argument that maths is constant and universal, it isn't when you enter the world of quantum mechanics, or that logic is similarly constant, which it isn't either, it depends on the environment etc. it is being applied in, even if these things were constants, how would that prove that god exists ?

  So there are times where maths aren't constant and universal? Wouldn't that make them - in that instant - constant and universal? Same for logic.

  And I don't think it's my responsibility to prove the existence of God! As I've already said, if a person doesn't want to believe in God and only wants to believe in what can be seen and proven in the natural, material world, then that's up to them.

  I'm just asking the question as to whether claiming that all that exists is matter - and constantly changing matter at that - is contradictory to holding up the laws of logic and maths.
• 
  69

  Can you be an atheist and believe in logic and maths?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheists are, by definition, naturalistic materialists; i.e.

  they believe that only the physical universe exists, only the nature exists therefore there is no supernatural and certainly no god.. can you, therefore, be an atheist but believe in logic and maths?

  they're also not made of matter.. is it true to say, then, that the atheist worldview is contradictory?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  passwordprotected

  Since this is an antagonistic thread, I propose that Christians are required to believe in magic.

  How is the thread antagonistic? And what do Christians have to do with it?
• 
  69

  Can you be an atheist and believe in logic and maths?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheists are, by definition, naturalistic materialists; i.e.

  they believe that only the physical universe exists, only the nature exists therefore there is no supernatural and certainly no god.. can you, therefore, be an atheist but believe in logic and maths?

  they're also not made of matter.. is it true to say, then, that the atheist worldview is contradictory?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  passwordprotected

  That's just silly.

  Atheists, by definition, do not believe that sufficient evidence exists to indicate the existence of any god.

  Period.

  If you're going to try to point out fallacies in someone else's worldview, first start by accurately representing that worldview.

  And by denying the existence of God proscribe to a naturalistic materialist worldview. If all that exists is the natural and matter.......

  That being said, are you going to completely ignore the rest of the post?
• 
  69

  Can you be an atheist and believe in logic and maths?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  atheists are, by definition, naturalistic materialists; i.e.

  they believe that only the physical universe exists, only the nature exists therefore there is no supernatural and certainly no god.. can you, therefore, be an atheist but believe in logic and maths?

  they're also not made of matter.. is it true to say, then, that the atheist worldview is contradictory?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  passwordprotected

  Logic and Math are similar to Art.

  Art can be literal or imaginative.

  Can logic or maths be literal or imaginative? Are you saying that logic and maths, like art, are open to interpretation? Sometimes hitting yourself on the head with a blunt object with result in joyful singing, other times with blinding pain. Sometimes 2+2=4 but other times, according to whether we take it literally or not, it can be 5 or 17 or 24,003.

  I don't see my question about the possible contradictory nature of the naturalistic materialist worldview being addressed; either everything is matter and constantly changing, or it isn't?

  Where did logic and maths come from? How come all people around the world have logic and maths?

  And what about thought; did thought pre-date logic or maths? Did 2+2 only = 4 whenever we thought about it? Surely, if all that exists is matter, then our thoughts are just neurons firing and chemical reactions going on in the matter that makes up our brains.

  If that's true, 2+2 may = 4 for me but 18 for someone else. You say that logic makes sure we aren't contradictory. But that truth is contradictory to the naturalistic materialist worldview; if all that exists is matter, atoms colliding into atoms, where does logic come from?

  If thought were the deciding factor in logic and maths, these laws would be subjective. But they aren't, are they? They're objective, constant and universal.

  Atheists look for extraordinary proof of God. But how could they ever consider processing any proof that may be offered without having to use logic and reason, both or which are neither matter (things) or constantly changing.