Posts by passwordprotected

170

UK justice..

by zeb in

tommie robinson has reported often about what he sees as the demise of british society by the imposition of 'sharia' norms.. https://www.infowars.com/update-tommy-robinson-gets-13-months-for-livestreaming-outside-courthouse/?utm_source=nightly+newsletter&utm_campaign=9e3ceb30f6-email_campaign_2018_05_25_03_10&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e12661a83c-9e3ceb30f6-38680565.

yesterday he was jailed for 13 months for reporting outside a court in the uk.

his was a non violent offence.. what no community service?

passwordprotected

"His life can not be guarented in prison - the last time he was in prison (for fraud) he was put in solitary confinement for his own protection.

The two options here must be solitary confinement and a non-custodial punishment."

The last time he was in prison the guards put him in a room then allowed 4 or 5 Muslim prisons in and closed the door. He lost his front teeth, but the guards had been assured that 1. they wouldn't kill him and 2. if they didn't have some access to him, they'd do worse to someone else, even a prison officer.

As he put it, some of the Mulsim prisoners are in for life for atrocious crimes. They have no issue killing someone in prison and having a few more years added to their tariff. The officers fear for their own safety and will comply to protect themselves.

Yes, one of the occasions an officer told him "when you're told to leave your cell refuse" and this resulting in him being put in solitary confinement, but it wasn't State mandated for his protection, but rather a nod and a wink from a screw trying to help.

During another incarceration, he was tipped off that he was going to be attacked with boiling water and sugar, and he was told which cell the attack was coming from, so he hit first. This was covered in a UK documentary where he was, of course, made to look like the bad guy.

I'd be very surprised if he makes it out alive this time.

170

UK justice..

by zeb in

tommie robinson has reported often about what he sees as the demise of british society by the imposition of 'sharia' norms.. https://www.infowars.com/update-tommy-robinson-gets-13-months-for-livestreaming-outside-courthouse/?utm_source=nightly+newsletter&utm_campaign=9e3ceb30f6-email_campaign_2018_05_25_03_10&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e12661a83c-9e3ceb30f6-38680565.

yesterday he was jailed for 13 months for reporting outside a court in the uk.

his was a non violent offence.. what no community service?

passwordprotected

So ... Tommy Robinson. I understand where he comes from completely ... but ... like many "crusaders" you can go too far. As I see it he had an accumulation of offences which meant the "slammer" for him. 13 months seems disproportionate but if he is a good boy he will be out after six and a half and as a "known" face he is unlikely to be killed/injured in prison.
As for the case he is protesting about - there is a very real danger that (if he "skews" the case by highlighting details or inciting a view that defendants are already guilty) there is a very real chance that the defence will cry "foul" and there will be a mistrial and they might get off scot-free.

Let's be clear, any mention of Robinson on the news or in new media will have "poison the well" labels such as "far-right", "racist", "Islamaphobic", such as those used by the press covering the Downing Street protest on Saturday.

The gagging order isn't necessarily against Robinson's arrest, but rather against the court case for the grooming gang, outside which he was live streaming. The argument FOR the court case having a gagging order is to protect the witnesses from intimidation. Read into that what you will...

However, Robinson asked the police officers in attendance if what he was doing, live streaming from the public pavement BEFORE the sentencing hearing (ie. the court case had already been heard by a judge and the defendants, all of whom, I believe, were out on police bail, were returning to hear what the verdict/sentencing would be), was ok or if he couldn't do it. And, of course, he was told he could do it by the police; public pavement, no restriction on filming or live streaming from there.

He was careful not to get on camera anyone not associated with the case who were there as witnesses/observers.

He also notes during the live stream that the trial judge was watching him from the window, and there are screenshots that seem to back this up.

A few minutes later, 6 police officers arrive to arrest him on suspicion of causing a breach of the peace.

The breach of the peace edict is a very tricky one legally as you can be arrest on SUSPICION of causing one, or even the pre-crime-esque charge of conspiring to cause one (ie. you actually haven't, but you may do in the future). People who planned peaceful protests before Prince William's wedding were arrested a couple of days before the event in case they went ahead with their protest and somehow caused a breach of the peace.

It's also an edict that can be rolled out and applied to just about anything; standing in a public place where your presence may not be wanted by third parties. Handing out leaflets criticising an ideology. Etc etc. Breach of the peace is used often by the police/state to stop such behaviour.

Now the very word "suspicion" surely implies evidence then needs to be gathered to establish whether the suspicion is based on fact. However, the very quick turn around of his arrest and sentencing suggests, to me, that this didn't happen.

Of course, he'd already been given a 3 month suspended sentence for his actions where he confronted men convicted of being part of a grooming gang outside a court. So where the 13 months comes from is strange, as surely it would be, upon the delivery of evidence, a 3-month sentence.

On the case he was reporting on, from what I've read there wasn't a jury that could be influenced by media coverage, the hearing was in front of a judge only. However, who can tell if this is accurate as there's zero press reporting on it. If, though, it was a judge and a judge only, how could covering the case be seen as potentially skewing the verdict?

To me, Islam is the holy cow religion. It cannot be criticised. It cannot be held to account. Within Islam there are clear teachings to hold no law other than Shariah, and there have been loud, vocal protests by Muslims in the UK against UK law, featuring banners that say things like "the only law we obey is Shariah". So we have a situation in the UK where groups of Islamic followers are breaking the law, harming children and the press either won't or can't cover these cases. The police have their hands tied by politician's (such as the Labour MP who liked and retweet a comment that the victims of the Rotherham rape gangs should "shut their mouths for the sake of diversity) and Mayors (like Khan in London).

So-called "Islamaphobia" is put in the same category as homophobia, racism and sexism when in reality Islam is a fucking choice...

So yes, Robinson put himself in a dodgy situation, but when you retrace the circumstances that led to his arrest, he can't really be to blame, but rather the fear of offending Muslims, Muslim intimidation and the liberal/leftwing policies that protect them.

97

Material such as the film at the end of this years convention confirms that I was right to take my kids out the religion

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

it’s quite affirming to see the horrific material that they’re serving up at the convention this year.

aside from blatant homophobia, the scenes at the end of the convention that are discussed on another thread stoop to new levels of fear mongering.

it seems to occur to nobody inside the organisation that this kind of material could trigger fear, deprsssion, anxiety, stress.

passwordprotected

During my brief time as PIMO*, a friend of my oldest son (who was probably 7 or 8 at the time) answered at the Watchtower study:

"My friends at school are bad and Jehovah is going to kill them."

Before being PIMO, I would have let that comment wash over my head. But in that moment I knew, without a doubt, that I had to get my children out of that toxic mess. That a 7 or 8 year old boy was GIVEN that answer by his parents and the WT Study Conductor's response was "that's right" shows up dangerous this cult is to young minds in particular.

10 years later, I'm out, my kids are out with little to no damage.

However, the young boy who made that comment is still in, but his Facebook shows photos of him and the friends Jehovah hates drinking Buckfast, throwing gang signs, etc. Lovely.

This video is incredibly dangerous.

*Took me a while to figure out what the fuck that meant!

117

Lloyd’s new book

by jwfacts in

i see there has already been discussion over lloyd’s new book how to leave the jehovah's witnesses.

this includes discussion around his personality, motives and financial gains.

i have written a foreword for this book, because it is an important topic that has not been covered in such a complete format before.

passwordprotected

I'm going to chip my tuppence worth in.

I've bought and read Lloyd's first book and gave it to my girlfriend to read also. She found it helpful to understand my journey. I even, briefly, supported him on Patreon (didn't get a thank you).

However, anyone who claims that Lloyd isn't like the perpetual baby in the pram, throwing the toys out when things don't go his way is deluding themselves, I'm afraid.

The guy lives with his wife's JW parents in Croatia and lambasted anyone on Facebook who was pro-Brexit because it was going to affect his standard of living...in his in-law's home in Croatia...he verbally attacked and then blocked anyone who was pro-Brexit.

The guy strikes me as an ex-JW mercenary, wanting to make a living as an activist when he was a wife and child to support. I could go all white male Neanderthal and say "get a fucking job, pay the bills and put a roof over your family's head".

What he did with Crisis of Conscience was virtually unforgivable. What he did with the Facebook Group was virtually unforgivable.

Yes, we all leave the Cult damaged and immature. But we need to learn from our mistakes, reshape our uncouthness and apologise where necessary. In my opinion, he hasn't and doesn't do this.

9

Interview with an Apostate - Passwordprotected

by passwordprotected in

father was raised catholic and converted to the jws in the late '60s.

my dad's side of the family are still catholics and are very nice to me.

my mum's side are all jws and they shun me (boo hoo).. were you a born in or a convert?.

passwordprotected

Tell us a little about yourself and your family.

Tell us a little about yourself and your family?

Father was raised Catholic and converted to the JWs in the late '60s. He met my mum - a born-in - and I was born in 1972. They adopted my brother in 1977. He was disfellowshipped in the early 90s. My dad's side of the family are still Catholics and are very nice to me. My mum's side are all JWs and they shun me (boo hoo).

Were you a born in or a convert?

Born in.

Are your parents / family JWs?

As above, yes and no.

How many generations have been JWs?

My maternal grandparents were JW converts.

Did you hold any position in the WTS? (MS, Elder etc...)

Pioneer. MS and Elder.

Did you *really* believe in the bible, in spirits (angels, demons)?

Not really.

Did you get baptised? When and why?

I was baptised in 1987 at 15 years of age. I did so because it was expected of me, but I didn't really believe it.

What was the initial trigger that made you start questioning things?

When the Governing Body wrote the letter to all congregations about cancelling the Book Study Groups and cited "rising gas prices" as one of the reasons, then seeing the dismay of many in the congregation about this change, especially since 6 months before we'd had a Service Meeting item about the huge importance of the Book Study Group.

Where did you find information? Internet sites? Books?

I first saw information about the above letter on a blog called "Letters from the Governing Body". That opened my eyes a bit, then I saw some YouTube videos, then eventually this site and JW-Facts. However, years beforehand I'd come across apostate newsgroup!

How difficult or painful was the process of leaving?

Devastating. I had 2 young children I was raising as JWs at the time, my ex-wife was a JW and I was serving as an elder. My whole life was built around the organisation.

Was it a big dramatic exit or a careful quiet fade?

Big and dramatic. Resigned as an elder around 3 months after the letter re. the Book Study Groups, DAd about 3 months after that.

Did you convince anyone else to leave with you?

I spoke to my ex-wife at the time, and she came to her own conclusions about "the Truth" and she left at the same time. I also spoke to a JW friend who I knew was having doubts and he and his now ex-wife exited around the same time.

How were your family relations affected by your decision?

The family was torn apart, both on my side and my ex-wife's side. Her JW family have zero contact with her. I was some, but limited, contact with my parents. I haven't seen or spoken to extended JW family since 2008, however a second cousin exited the religion a few years ago and he got in touch via Facebook.

Were you or are you still being shunned by those who didn't leave?

Yes, but fuck them. I don't give a fuck about any of them.

How long have you now been out?

Mentally since May 2008, DAd since October 2008.

Was there anything you looked forward to doing when you left?

I tried a cigarette then a cigar a few months after leaving. I got a tattoo the following year.

What are you most proud of achieving since you left?

Moving on with my life. Freeing my children from mental slavery. Growing a business. Not giving a fuck.

Is there anything you miss about life in the congregation?

The community element and believing I had a large group of friends (I didn't, they were all conditional).

Red pill or blue pill? Do you regret waking up to reality at all?

Red pill every day of the week, regardless of how painful the truth is. I don't regret it, although I confess sometimes that I miss the seemingly simpler and blinkered way of life and having a large group of friends.

Did you become an atheist or transfer your faith elsewhere?

I attended the Alpha Course at a local church very soon after ceasing to attend meetings. I told my father about attending church and this resulted in my mother pressuring me to DA so that he wouldn't have to tell the elders. I was a bit of a rabid born-again Christian for a few years, but by 2012, when I turned 40, I allowed myself to mentally unshackle myself from the need for a faith or a god.

I consider myself an atheist.

How do you now feel about religion in general?

I detest all forms of religion and blind faith, and I can see clearly the clinging to out-dated beliefs and mindsets have on society.

Do you feel any guilt celebrating Xmas or birthdays or doing any other JW "no-no"s?

At first a little. And I don't really throw myself into the "spirit of Xmas", but I enjoy seeing what it brings to my children and those who I care about.

Have you attended any face-to-face meetups of ex-JWs?

I've met up with some ex-JWs, but not for a while. In my experience, the only thing we have in common is that we're ex-JWs.

Describe your circle of friends - mostly other ex-JWs or regular people?

I have 2 or 3 friends, one of whom is like a brother. He's ex-JW, although not formally DFd. The others are also ex-JWs. I haven't made or maintained any friendships with people who didn't know me when I was 17. My girlfriend's family are very kind and welcoming, but I struggle to build new relationships and friendships.

Do you tell people about your JW past?

It depends. Most of the people I associate with are through work, and some of them know. When I started dating my girlfriend I told her straight away. I've found it can help people understand why I'm the way I am at times.

Do you feel animosity or pity toward current JWs?

I have zero sympathies for anyone who chooses to remain part of any religion despite their doubts. I have a "fuck them" attitude to JWs, especially the ones I used to be close to. My rationale now is, they didn't really know me and I didn't really know them, so they mean nothing to me now.

I have some sympathy for anyone in the Witnesses that are actively struggling with cognitive dissonance, but I had to go through it, I had to suck it up, and I had to make the tough decision to leave. So do they. Deal with it.

How do you respond to witnesses when they call at your door?

As my parents know where I live, I'm assuming I'm a Do Not Call as I've never had them at my door in the 4 years that I've lived in my current home.

Storm the barricades or tend to the wounded? (do you favor activism or support)

In my opinion, militant activism only cements the JW persecution mindset. I remember protestors outside a convention years ago, and it didn't shake me from my JW mindset, they didn't even give me pause for thought. What helped me was the information on sites like this, on YouTube and the wonderful JW-Facts, and then once I was mentally out, Crisis of Conscience. I'd class all of that as support borne out of activism.

At the end of the day, people will believe what they want to believe and will place themselves and their children in places of potential harm. There isn't a great deal we can do about mindsets if people don't want to change their mind. Support, where required, is the way to go, and freely available information to allow people to decide what they want to believe should be available, as it currently is.

What do you think is the most effective approach to reaching people still in?

The internet, Google in particular. Storming a Kingdom Hall and proclaiming verifiable facts isn't as effective at freeing minds as it is helping the torment of those of us who've left.

Do you think the WTS can or should be destroyed, will continue on as-is or grow / change?

I think the world would be better without religion, but I can't see that happening for many millenia. The WTBTS needs to change and adapt, but I've also said it will tighten its grip instead, which is what I see happening.

How has your life been impacted by your JW past?

I lack some social skills. I lack some maturity. I have some skills such as public speaking, that are beneficial. I realise that half of my life has been spent in a mental prison and I haven't done the things that I hope my children are able to do, which is sad at times.

Are there things in your life you blame the WTS for?

Denying me a proper relationship with my parents, the sort I'm cultivating with my children. But I don't assign blame, I take ownership of where my life's at and realise only I can change things.

JW upbringing - a protection or a curse?

Curse.

How do you fill your time now it's not filled with meetings and field service?

Family time. Relationship time. Watching the UFC on the weekends.

Do you still have an interest in JW beliefs and doctrines?

I keep my ear to the ground and I think I'll always be interested in the clusterfuck that is the Watchtower Society.

How much of your time is still spent on JW related matters?

Very, very little.

What do you think of the ex-JW community?

I think it's a minefield at times as many of us are damaged. I see a lot of judgemental people, at times. One very prominent exJW author is a little bitch who only tolerates people who hold the same views as him, for example. At the end of the day, the only thing most of us have in common is our shared JW experience, and we should remember that.

Do you see yourself still being associated with the ex-JW community in 5 or 10 years time?

I think I'll always check in.

Do you fear the future?

I try not to worry about how I don't have savings, a pension, investments etc. I don't fear death. I'm not looking forward to it, though.

What advice would you give to anyone starting the journey of leaving the WTS?

Expect pain. But know that on the other side you'll have a mental strength that few around you can comprehend.

What would you change in your life if you could go back and talk to yourself?

Don't get married (although I've never regretted my 3 children). Don't become a pioneer. Grow some balls, wake the fuck up, and do what makes you happy.

That being said, most of the time I don't regret my life as a JW because it's made me the person I am today.

Do you have any regrets about life since you left?

Starting smoking.

Can we read your life-story anywhere? (links to online or books)

Everything about my exit and some updates on my life since can be found here - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/users/31214/passwordprotected/topics

58

BOE-2018-04-16--Beards and Special Privileges!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

2018-04-16-boebeards and special privilegeshttps://we.tl/qoxbkltp4latlantis!.

passwordprotected

I notice they're still doing the whole "quote a scripture and follow it up with a quote from our literature" trick to juxtapose "inspired" text with their made-up bullshit.

I'm writing this while being fully adorned with a beard.

34

Nicolas King: JW celebrity and example of hypocrisy

by neat blue dog in

nicolas king frequently sings with the watchtower chorus and had a supporting role in the dvd released at the 2014 convention.

(he's on the bottom row, second from the right.).

but he also is a jazz singer, traveling constantly performing at concerts, casinos, charity events, even a brief appearance on the tonight show.

passwordprotected

He's not gay, is he?

10

A conversation with my ultra dub relative

by joe134cd in

here's a conversation i just had with my relative a few minutes ago i'll let you decide.. relative : would you like to read your grandfather the days txt (she passes joe the phone).

joe : sure.

(then proceed to read it to my grandfather and explain it).. after discussing the points joe says to relative.. hey what's the story arnt they printing books any more.. relative : no they arnt necessary any more.. joe : really why is that.. relative : it's all on line.

passwordprotected

As a new elder I was assigned to give a local needs talk on why computer print outs shouldn't be used during the meetings.

The congregation was deadly silent as I gave the talk and counsel as my father, at the time, used to compile Word documents with all of the references/citations for each TMS and Service meeting and mass email them to all the bros/sis.

Basically I was counselling my father not to do what is now the norm.

This was 2007/8.

45

Do JW beliefs deserve respect?

by azor in

what say you?

.

passwordprotected

I respect anyone's right to believe what they want. However, what they choose to believe is entirely at my discretion as to whether its worthy of my respect.

In terms of religious belief, I respect none. I'd have more respect for belief in an actual real boy named Jack and an actual real bean stalk.

In terms of the Jehovah's Witness belief structure, it can go fuck itself, as can they who believe it*.

*

26

Do you still believe in the concept of absolute truth?

by JW_Rogue in

jws very much believe that there is an absolute truth and of course, they are the only ones who have it lol.

how about now though do you still believe that absolute truths exist?

or is everything subjective?

passwordprotected

I'm not sure it's absolutely true to say that there is absolute truth. Or even that there isn't absolute truth.