Posts by passwordprotected

33

Meeting with Elders - but not about me

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

so i agreed to meet with the elders to testify against someone.

this person is an elder, is married, but plays around and messes with sisters.

that's right, he is married.

passwordprotected

Sorry, but I call BS on this one.

421

jesus denies being God! scriptural discussion.

by reniaa in

i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.

17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.

"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?

passwordprotected

Oh Reniaa, you really are the worst sort of JW, aren't you? Your clear lack of respect for Jesus is compelling. It's like watching a spiritual car crash. Quite why you choose to enter into debates with Christians as to the divinity of Christ is puzzling. Jesus said "before Abraham was I Am." He was elevated to a position above everyone, given a name above every name, put above every kind of rulership both now and in the future. Why? Because he had the humility to empty himself of divinity, be born as a man on earth, be scourged, defamed and executed in agony so that mankind's sins would die with him on the cross.

And even though you know all of that you search the Holy Scriptures for caveats to down-play who Jesus was and is.

Jesus said that his Father has given the role of Judge to him. Why? In order that all my honour the Son, just as the honour the Father. As a worshiper of Jehovah, surely you wish to give him honour? Well, if you don't honour the Son you dishonour Jehovah.

You've been told, repeatedly, at the WTS meetings that Jesus is no more than a created being. You've been told that the greatest act of love was Jehovah sending his son to earth to die. You've been told that the second greatest act of love was Jesus dying for your sins. Does that even make sense?

You have to understand that many who frequent this discussion board have broken free, both mentally and spiritually, from the WTS Satanic abuse. They have left behind the WTS teachings, ceased feeding at the table of demons, and have collapsed in gratitude at the feet of the Christ. So for you to search the scriptures for ways to denigrate the position Christ has in heaven and publish those thoughts on this discussion board is comparable with an apostate going into a Kingdom Hall, taking the microphone and proclaiming "the Governing Body are nothing but a bunch of pampered, embittered old men who actively protect pedophiles, clinging to teachings that are long out of date!"

That wouldn't be a very nice thing to do, would it, even if there was some truth to the statement?

4

"Caledonia"

by passwordprotected in

jw
friends

i have moved and i keep on moving, i've proved the points that needed provin', i've lost the friends that needed losin' and found others along the way.

passwordprotected

There's always time.

73

As of tomorrow I will no longer be a JW

by passwordprotected in

after my last post where i asked for advice on how to handle whether i should tell an elder that we've been going to church, i decided to tell a local elder who's related to me through marriage.

this was to save my dad having to 'report' me (i'd told my dad we go to church).

anyway, i had an interesting chat with him and he said some very personally revealing things re.

passwordprotected

@pope - I worship because I believe, I always have. I'm grateful that the WTS haven't killed off my belief in God and I fully understand those who are embittered and angry because of WTS abuse.

44

Whats the reason behind the name change of the Watchtower Society ?

by Homerovah the Almighty in

i just read one of the wts.

recent km and realized the the wts.

the new name for the publishing corporation.

passwordprotected

Let's face it, we know JWs aren't Christians. But changing the corporation's name to include the word "Christian" maybe makes up for them denying Christ every year on Nisan 14.

4

"Caledonia"

by passwordprotected in

jw
friends

i have moved and i keep on moving, i've proved the points that needed provin', i've lost the friends that needed losin' and found others along the way.

passwordprotected

I have moved and I keep on moving, I've proved the points that needed provin', I've lost the friends that needed losin' and found others along the way.

73

As of tomorrow I will no longer be a JW

by passwordprotected in

after my last post where i asked for advice on how to handle whether i should tell an elder that we've been going to church, i decided to tell a local elder who's related to me through marriage.

this was to save my dad having to 'report' me (i'd told my dad we go to church).

anyway, i had an interesting chat with him and he said some very personally revealing things re.

passwordprotected

@ besty - I second your sentiments. Our biggest fear was losing our dignity on leaving and people thinking bad of us, which, in hindsight, was prideful and wrong. I was told by the two elders yesterday that everyone in the congregation we've left still thinks very highly of us and they're bewildered and confused as to why we've left. Obviously when our DA gets announced that will change, but not for everyone.

If that's the case, then it's a good thing. Firstly, we managed to leave on a high, we didn't fade and move into 'spiritually weak' status. A family we know are doing this in another congregation, and now no one takes them seriously.

One week we were at the meetings, I was giving talks and items, the next week we were gone. 4 months later we're attending church and have a new, happy life with new friends.

How do I know our method has made an impact? Two elders have told me they've been unable to think of anything else over the past 4 months than our leaving 'the truth'. It's been such a short, sharp, shock that it's made them think and we all know how dangerous that is a for JWs.

I spoke to a young ministerial servant tonight, one that I'd mentored. I've known the guy his whole life. We haven't spoken to each other since July. I knocked his door tonight and told him we'd DAd. He was stunned but he said he's been thinking and pondering and wondering why we left. He remarked that he knows I'm "a smart guy" and that if I've decided to leave it must be for good reasons. While he said he was tempted to ask me the reasons, he restrained himself. I was able to reassure him of my love and prayers for him before I left and I told him my door is always open to him. The guy's eyes filled and he couldn't speak.

There was me, an apostate, not bashing his faith, yet possessing a piece of knowledge so powerful that it's caused me and my wife to take our kids and leave "the truth".

IMO fading doesn't make JWs think. It only works to prolong the agony of leaving for those doing the fading. And I respect those who do it and I understand their reasons. It wasn't for us, however. But Paul's right; making a statement gets people thinking and it frees you to start a new life.

Jey Burrows told me that he agonised for a longtime about DAing because of the impact it would have on his father. On the night he handed in his letter he phoned his dad and told him what he'd done. His father's reply was, "I no longer have a son." Jey said he knew he'd done the right thing.

JW's love isn't agape. It's conditional.

73

As of tomorrow I will no longer be a JW

by passwordprotected in

after my last post where i asked for advice on how to handle whether i should tell an elder that we've been going to church, i decided to tell a local elder who's related to me through marriage.

this was to save my dad having to 'report' me (i'd told my dad we go to church).

anyway, i had an interesting chat with him and he said some very personally revealing things re.

passwordprotected

@besty - absolutely, mate. In fact, just last week I spent a pleasant few hours in the compay of Jey (Jeff) Burrows who was a good friend in my youth and the first person I'd heard having the term 'apostate' applied to. We enjoyed a couple of drinks, we caught up on what had been happening during the past 17 years. He's a confirmed atheist, but he didn't push that ideology on me and I didn't push my mental born-again Christian vibe on him.

Last night myself and two other local 'apostates' [hi, ninja] popped out for a chat and a beer, each one of us having separate views and opinions on pretty much everything.

Life is good.

73

As of tomorrow I will no longer be a JW

by passwordprotected in

after my last post where i asked for advice on how to handle whether i should tell an elder that we've been going to church, i decided to tell a local elder who's related to me through marriage.

this was to save my dad having to 'report' me (i'd told my dad we go to church).

anyway, i had an interesting chat with him and he said some very personally revealing things re.

passwordprotected

@meeting junkie;
I have no idea what drew me to the Baptist church. We used to meet for field service in a block of flats right next door to the church and we used to sneer when we'd hear the band playing during the Sunday service (if we were meeting the morning for FS). Also, the church was rebuilt a year or so ago at a cost of around £2 million, which we also sneered at. Plus, Baptists are happy-clappers, right?

Well, it just goes to show. My wife tried another local church, but she found it a bit too 'charismatic' for her taste. I tried the Baptist church, and enjoyed it.

Before my first service I met with the pastor (there are two pastors, both are fairly new to the area) and I asked him, in detail, what a service was like, what happened, what's expected etc. He took me through what they do there on Sundays.

There's no clergy/laity divide in Baptist churches, and it was actually one of the local elders who was preaching from 1 John 2 the first week I attended. The services started with a welcome from the pastor, who then encourages the congregation to take a few minutes to speak to the people sitting around them. Then after that there are about 3 songs, the words of which are displayed on big screens across the front of the church. Then there is a prayer, usually very specific in it's focus. Then a bit more singing.

Then after some announcements the children are dismissed to their little groups, depending on their age. After that there is a reading. The church we attend is working through John's letters, verse by verse. The focus is very much on the Word of God. No publications other than the Bible are used. After the reading there is a prayer to focus the mind on what is going to be discussed. The sermon lasts around 20-30 mins, then a few more songs, , then a prayer, then the kids come back into the congregation.

I had a check list in my mind of things that would have to be done to satisfy my expectations of religious worship. The boxes were all ticked.

At this church there isn't a huge out pouring of religious emotion, although people do really raise their voices during the singing and some raise their hands, but not many. The first time I attended they served communion and I was amazed at how sombre and serious it was, people all around me were praying on their own, totally un-self conscious as they took communion.

There was no love bombing, but they do take the arrival of new faces seriously and people were very friendly, but not in our faces.

What's great, though, was that yesterday Gail received 4 separate offers of fellowship, from us being invited for a meal to her being invited out for a coffee and a chat. That hadn't happened before. But this week our DA will be announced and we'll officially lose all of our family and friends, so it came at just the right time.

I've had a few one-on-one meetings with the pastor to discuss various faith issues and he's been non-pushy. He even recommended that we don't even think about joining their church. The first time we met he explained he's not interested in getting new members into his church, but rather he's interested in bringing people to Christ.

There are a couple of things that really impress me about this sort of church;
1. the people are genuinely committed and dedicated in their service and worship; they really want to spread the gospel of Christ.
2. the church is just a means to an end. It's merely a place for Christians to meet and worship God, praise Christ and enjoy each other's company. There is a level of organisation involved as it's a big church, but that never ever tries to eclipse the worship of God.

2

Sence the year 2000 What has Changed?

by underaglassmoon2 in

the year 2000 was the last time i can recall attending the guilt service (memorial) after that i was just able to say no because i did not see the family for the next few years.

though i was not able to seek "you people" out until last year and have my eyes opened, i am now aware of suttle changes over the last few years.

would anyone one be interested in a recap.

passwordprotected

I would say a lot has changed since 2000!

Blood fractions are now allowed, but JWs are expected to know how to explain, Scripturally, to their Drs why.

The date of the resurrection of the 'anointed' to heaven isn't set in stone as 1918 anymore. The WTS stated that this date is "an interesting possibility", while admitting it can't be confirmed in Scripture.

The WTS were exposed as being affiliated with the UN for 9 years. This resulted in a lot of unhappy JWs, a clamping down on freeness of speech by the WTS on those who talked about it or asked about it (elders were sent a 'secret' letter containing the official WTS spin), and a flurry of lies and cover-up by way of explaining this association. A local elder exclaimed to a stumbled JW who was deeply troubled by God's official channel of communication having relations with the disgusting beast of Revelation, "but it's just the beast!".

Thousands of Bethelites were 'reassigned' as Special Pioneers, thus losing their homes and jobs and any hope of health care.

The number of partakers are the annual denial of Christ - aka Memorial - has consistently risen each year.

The WTS admitted that Rutherford had 'shut up the kingdom of God before men' by teaching that the 144,000 were sealed in 1935. They've admitted there's no Scriptural basis for this teaching. (Bit of a pattern emerging.)

The "generation" teaching has reverted back to the early 1930s understanding that the generation refers to the anointed as a group on earth...at any time. Coupling this 'new light' with that of the 1935 sealing means that JWs have absolutely no marker in the sand anymore for where they are in relation to "Jehovah's purposes". A 5 year old kid could be of the "remnant" and there's absolutely nothing the WTS can do about it. Therefore his generation won't pass away etc etc. In other words, Armageddon is as far away for the JWs as it's ever been. (I'm pretty sure this has no basis in Scripture, either.)

The WTS no longer publishes 2 WTs per month for distribution to the public. Instead, they print one edition for the public and a 'kool aid' edition which is exclusively for JWs and those actively attending meetings. These magazines are studied each Sunday, as before, but now the WTS is able to take the kid gloves off and beat the flock without worrying if the neighbours are watching.

The Public Talk has been reduced to 30 minutes. This allows JWs to do an extra 15 minutes of door knocking on a Sunday.

Both parents are allowed to report up to 4 hours per month each for the family study.

The September 2007 KM had a question box which explained that the "faithful and discreet slave" class don't endorse groups who meet privately for Bible study and research. It was explained that they don't approve of JWs publishing books and booklets that contain Bible research and that if any JW does wish to do some extra study, it should be limited to the Insight Volumes and the WT Index.

The Governing Body wrote to all congregations in April to explain that, as of January 2009, there will be no more meetings in private homes. The explanation was that the increase of gas prices makes it quite expensive for the 'friends' to travel a few short miles to a local home for the Book Study Group. The Book Study Group has now been amalgamated into the TMS and Service Meeting and renamed Congregation Bible Study. Interestingly, they still study a WTS book. But now they only spend 25 minutes per week doing it.

The WTS have published a new book helping JWs to keep in God's love. Details include such areas as arranged marriages, masturbation, not speaking to DFd relatives and blood fractions. Oh, and clinking glasses and celebrating your child's birthday. It appears that Jehovah is up there in heaven with an itchy, twitchy trigger finger, just waiting to wipe out any JW who steps out of line. Apparently Jehovah has forgotten that Jesus died for all mankind and that he can put the rifle down now, it's ok, mankind's sins have been covered.

So, yeah, that's what's been going on with the JWs, how have you been?