Oh, I missed the reference to babies dying in the flood. I remember there was one where women were in the water holding up their babies toward the arc. Alas, they missed the boat.
whitman
JoinedPosts by whitman
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28
Watchtower images required
by jwfacts indoes anyone have any images from watchtower publications of "worldly people"?
i remember some collages of worldly people doing evil things and would like to included them in some articles..
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28
Watchtower images required
by jwfacts indoes anyone have any images from watchtower publications of "worldly people"?
i remember some collages of worldly people doing evil things and would like to included them in some articles..
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whitman
Blacksheep, that's exactly the image that came to mind. Paradise Lost is full of grizzly imagery. There was some other publication too which spent quite a few pages showing images of people involved in the occult, but I can't remember which one it was. Possibly the Revelation book? I don't have a copy here to double check unfortunately.
jwfacts....I was looking for a reason to procrastinate tonight, so thanks.
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if you only knew (1st Post here)
by lil.lady.03 ini've been in pain too long.
i have this whole entry i want to post but i don't know if it is too long to read.
i'll post it in parts.
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whitman
I don't post here often, but I'd like to say 'welcome' as well.
Hope you manage to get a good sleep tonight and wake up knowing you have a huge amount of support here for you.
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26
Is there a new 'rule' about disfellowshipping which can make it null and void?
by whitman infirstly, if anyone involved in this situation is reading this i hope i haven't overstepped the boundaries by raising this question here.
i'll try to keep it as anonymous as possible.. so folks this is the situation.
it has just been brought to my attention that during some type of shepherding call to a a disfellowshipped person who is experiencing serious mental illness as a result of the situation and the shunning from his family (his father is an elder), an interesting twist of events occurred.. one of the 'shepherding' elders asked the d.f-d person whether they had prayed and dedicated his/her life fully to jehovah before the baptism.
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whitman
QuietlyLeaving: You noted that: I wonder if this has to do with elders being re-invented as independent agents"
(sorry, I'm hopeless at making my posts look pretty and organised like everyone else)
I haven't stayed that up to date on technical changes in the borg on that kind of issue....what exactly does it mean that they are being 're-invented as independent agents'? What are the implications? I absolutely agree that it would be interesting to test the waters on this one.
xchange: What a horrid situation! Loopholes, loopholes, loopholes (as Elderdelite would say ;))
JWfacts: I didn't realise it had always existed as an option. This is the first time I've heard of it, hence my post here. It certainly sounds as though there are some precedents that have been set, but consistency is not really the mark of this particular beast.
Coffee: So if that's the case and you were baptised before you were old enough to really understand the implications, where does that leave you now? Did they recognise that your baptism was void?
Quillsky: You aren't suggesting I'm the actual elder involved here are you? Context can be tricky on here. I'm involved, but only as a family member watching on - I'm not an elder, and I'm not DF'd either, otherwise I'd be putting this loophole to the test myself.
Thanks again everyone. I appreciate the feedback.
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26
Is there a new 'rule' about disfellowshipping which can make it null and void?
by whitman infirstly, if anyone involved in this situation is reading this i hope i haven't overstepped the boundaries by raising this question here.
i'll try to keep it as anonymous as possible.. so folks this is the situation.
it has just been brought to my attention that during some type of shepherding call to a a disfellowshipped person who is experiencing serious mental illness as a result of the situation and the shunning from his family (his father is an elder), an interesting twist of events occurred.. one of the 'shepherding' elders asked the d.f-d person whether they had prayed and dedicated his/her life fully to jehovah before the baptism.
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whitman
Thanks to everyone for their responses to this question.
I'm not sure that the 'shunning' would stop just because the baptism was considered null and void, but the possibility that this is actually a new approach does open up a number of issues. Both elders in the 'shepherding' call stated that in such a case the baptism doesn't stand and therefore nor does the DF'ing. It didn't sound as though it was just one elder's opinion. It seemed a united front on the issue.
I'm sure there has been nothing official published about this. However, when a lay-dub was advised of the situation they just said it made perfect sense and acted as though there was nothing unusual about it at all. (Of course, we know they smile and nod at everything they are fed whether they understand it or not, so that is hardly confirmation that this is a new practice). Perhaps there may be something new included in the secret elder hand book?
I was just wondering whether anyone had any similar experiences or insight into what seems like a new strategy. Is there any way we can confirm that this is happening? While this person's father is an elder, he is hardly sympathetic to his child's plight. If anything he is harder on this DF'd person than anyone else is, so I can't imagine it is a tactic to assist and elder and his family situation.
Any further thoughts?
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26
Is there a new 'rule' about disfellowshipping which can make it null and void?
by whitman infirstly, if anyone involved in this situation is reading this i hope i haven't overstepped the boundaries by raising this question here.
i'll try to keep it as anonymous as possible.. so folks this is the situation.
it has just been brought to my attention that during some type of shepherding call to a a disfellowshipped person who is experiencing serious mental illness as a result of the situation and the shunning from his family (his father is an elder), an interesting twist of events occurred.. one of the 'shepherding' elders asked the d.f-d person whether they had prayed and dedicated his/her life fully to jehovah before the baptism.
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whitman
Firstly, if anyone involved in this situation is reading this I hope I haven't overstepped the boundaries by raising this question here. I'll try to keep it as anonymous as possible.
So folks this is the situation. It has just been brought to my attention that during some type of shepherding call to a a disfellowshipped person who is experiencing serious mental illness as a result of the situation and the shunning from his family (his father is an elder), an interesting twist of events occurred.
One of the 'shepherding' elders asked the D.F-d person whether they had prayed and dedicated his/her life fully to Jehovah before the baptism. The disfellowshipped person in question responded in the negative, stating that they just got baptised because it was the expected thing and felt pressure to be baptised.
This elder then told the disfellowshipped person that due to the DF-d person's attitude to his/her baptism at the time, the baptism itself was null and void and therefore the person in question cannot be treated as a disfellowshipped person.
On hearing this account, I asked whether this was just one elder's opinion or whether it now the accepted practice. I was advised that it is now the accepted practice.
Has anyone heard of this or had any experience with this scenario? Is this actually happening now? If so, the implications are wide ranging.
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Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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whitman
Hi Mr Flipper,
I haven't posted here for ages, but I drop in from time to time to see how everyone is going (hello again everyone!) so I thought I'd mention the generation change to my mum last night after I had seen your question about other people's experiences with this issue. It was confusing to say the least. She explained that a person who was alive and aware of the events of 1914 belonged to a generation, and that anyone whose life overlapped that generation is part of the same generation. I told her I found that confusing, and asked whether she did too. She asserted it was really quite simple but that she probably wasn't explaining it properly. I asked her whether she realised that technically this overlapping of generations could go on ad infinitum. She was not comfortable with the logical conclusion to this New Light and mumbled something about a 'Secret Place' and keeping close to god. Where is the Secret Place? How do I get there? Is it new too?
In trying to sort out this 'generation' issue, I used my grandmother as an example. I said 'well, could you consider me to be the same generation as Nanna because my life overlaps hers?'. Mum said 'no, it's different'. When I asked her how it was different she couldn't answer me. She just kept saying it was different. Then I asked where this new teaching was coming from, giving her an outline of what I had been brought up to believe. I asked her if this new teaching on the generation was based on a scripture in the bible. She said NO. That's right, she actually said no. She said that it was just a new understanding. I asked her if it was New Light, and she squirmed slightly and said that it was just a new understanding.
Just for good measure I thought I'd throw in a reference to their U.N membership. She was a little surprised but then went on to claim that the U.N do all sorts of good things and help a lot of people. Guess the WTBTS have done a good job keeping up their end of the bargain and spreading the 'good word' about the U.N.
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Am I being paranoid?
by Mandette inthis is stupid....maybe..... i was in our local public library last week.
i looked for crisis of conscience.
so i asked about it.
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whitman
Once I was researching break-dancing. I went to the state library and took note of all break-dancing books. Then I wandered over to the shelves to check the books out. Every single book was gone!! This is not a borrowing library. Only research could be done there. It was a Sunday afternoon and the library was empty.
Finally I managed to find a book just on dance which had a section on break-dancing. I flipped open the book..... and the entire chapter on break-dancing had been ripped out!! Coincidence?? I think not!!
This is a true and disturbing story. Who knows what people lurk about and prevent us from accessing books we need....
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Dearest Simon...please help some of our old (and banned) friends.....
by oompa inbeksbks and changeling for two..... i sense a kinder, gentler simon right now.
many people here had strong feelings with all the sudden news....and may have offended you.
you had every right to ban them.
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whitman
Hurrah!! and all is well with the world....
Hugs for everyone
xx
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Dearest Simon...please help some of our old (and banned) friends.....
by oompa inbeksbks and changeling for two..... i sense a kinder, gentler simon right now.
many people here had strong feelings with all the sudden news....and may have offended you.
you had every right to ban them.
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whitman
Simon, and all JWD-ers,
Come on people - it's Changeling and Beks we are talking about here!!! These are friends.... remember how much they've supported you, laughed with you, cried with you... remember how they took the time to respond to your posts???
These are not strangers. You know these people. They are not the type of people we need to be concerned with here.
Please let them at least have access to their p.m's. It doesn't seem fair that they should be punished for the actions of others.
I hope you can all take the time to remember who Beks and Changeling are.... this is really sad. I'm with Oompa on this one.