Posts by HildaBingen

13

Why I'm Still Angry & Benefit from Simon's ...

by patio34 in

jw
friends

some on this board have stated that many here are bitter and need to move on from criticizing the wtbs, even implying that there was something wrong with the mental state of ones who continue in their attacks of jws.

this following seemed to me to hit the nail on the head as to why so many of us stay involved long after weve left the borg.

also, even the watchtower has stated something like, why dont people just leave, why do they have to publicly attack jws?

HildaBingen

Hello Pat:

:Thanks for the reply. I would agree that Jesus did not follow this principle. But the point the author was making was that humans, throughout their history, have displayed this trait.:

I think the author is right if we are talking about humans (excepting Jesus) throughout history. Humans tend to display this trait. My proposal, however, is that nobility and anger over one's supposed hurt self-esteem are not necessary correlates.

:True, they claimed their God had ordered them to this path. However, don't most peoples claim that? If you take the supernatural out of the picture, then thymos is what seems to be the principle.:

What you call thymos is the normal existential principle of everydayness. Jesus was not into everydayness though; he was into holiness and lovingness and non-everydayness.

:If you insist on the supernatural, then it seems all discussion is pointless, because anything can be claimed about anything. And all evidence to the contrary is "wisdom of man.":

I do not agree with your assessment of the supernatural. There are controls in theology that prevent one from claiming whatever she pleases. Theologians, even those who believe in the supernatural, do believe that not just anything goes. Some theologians feel that the idea that is the least antinomous wins. This ol' gal thinks that idea is pregnant with possibilities.

:Jesus lived in different times and was not leading a nation, as was Moses, et al. So it's not comparable.:

Jesus leads the church. That is comparable, my friend.

:However, my point was also that the average individual had a sense of self-worth and responds with anger. But not everyone has it. Many people are downtrodden and do nothing about it. They accept the status quo. It's your assertion that Jesus was noble and that is not a given accepted by all people.:

Is there such a thing as an 'average individual'? If there is, then you are right. If there is not--maybe you are not right. I don't know.

One thing that I do know, dear. Even those who are not Christians have generally said that Jesus is noble. I judge by his actions and nothing else. I am not just asserting that Jesus is or was noble.

13

Why I'm Still Angry & Benefit from Simon's ...

by patio34 in

jw
friends

some on this board have stated that many here are bitter and need to move on from criticizing the wtbs, even implying that there was something wrong with the mental state of ones who continue in their attacks of jws.

this following seemed to me to hit the nail on the head as to why so many of us stay involved long after weve left the borg.

also, even the watchtower has stated something like, why dont people just leave, why do they have to publicly attack jws?

HildaBingen

Dear patio:

Let me explain why I think Socrates is wrong.

:Socrates suggests a relationship between anger and “self-esteem” by explaining that the nobler a man is—that is, the more highly he evaluates his own worth—the more angry he will become when he has been dealt with unjustly: his spirit “boils and becomes harsh,” forming an alliance for battle with what seems just” even if he “suffers in hunger, cold, and everything of the sort…” Thymos is something like an innate human sense of justice; people believe that have a certain worth, and when other people act as though they are worth less—when they do not recognize their worth at its correct value—then they become angry.:

What is entailed in being noble? Is being noble recognizing one's own self-worth? I doubt it. I am no philosopher--only an ignorant mystic. Yet I would pit my Jesus against Socrates' wisdom anyday.

Jesus was the most noble man who ever lived, I believe. This noble man was not angered when people insulted his self-worth. No but he prayed for those who insulted his self-worth and tried to help them in any way that he could. He left us a model to follow, friend.

Read what Peter writes:

For to this have ye been called; for Christ also has suffered for you, leaving you a model that ye should follow in his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth; who, when reviled, reviled not again; when suffering, threatened not; but gave himself over into the hands of him who judges righteously

(1 Peter 2:21-23)

To me that is true nobility, dear.

85

BREAKING MY SILENCE EVERYONE READ!!!

by D8TA in

jw
friends

as ive made it known on this board, my current status with the watchtower bible and tract society is that of inactive.

this is a loophole i have utilized, to keep an open channel of communication with family members in the organization.. i want to clarify with everyone: i do not hold any doctrinal ideas, theology, ideology, opinions expressed in any form by the wtbts.

therefore, to simply put, i do not believe in the wtbts in any way, shape, or form.

HildaBingen

Dear black:

:Oops, Hilda,
You gave yourself away. You have the jw vocabulary. Very distinctive, and easily recognizable.:

I have not yet affirmed or denied my affiliation with the JW organization. I prefer to think of myself as a free soul who floats in the clouds, dear.

:Your anger is showing too.
Don't council others without first looking at yourself. This is getting interesting, but I'm on my way out the door.:

I am not angry, dear black. What on earth gave you that idea? Because I used exclamation marks? Excuse the expression, but heavens no. I am as serene as a flowing river just eddying along.

2

Trust in the faithless

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

http://www.nandotimes.com/opinions/story/390994p-3104826c.html .

opinions: gary sloan: trust in the faithless .

HildaBingen

test

85

BREAKING MY SILENCE EVERYONE READ!!!

by D8TA in

jw
friends

as ive made it known on this board, my current status with the watchtower bible and tract society is that of inactive.

this is a loophole i have utilized, to keep an open channel of communication with family members in the organization.. i want to clarify with everyone: i do not hold any doctrinal ideas, theology, ideology, opinions expressed in any form by the wtbts.

therefore, to simply put, i do not believe in the wtbts in any way, shape, or form.

HildaBingen

Dear "heaven":

:When trying to make a point here, it is good to refrain from telling others what to do or not to do. No human is in control of anyone but themselves. Frankly most of us are fed up with controlling and judgemental people. Who are you to tell anyone to "quell their anger"? or that they are "Full of gutter talk"?!:

I only suggested that Mr Jay quell his anger and I expressed my honest opinion (exercising my freeness of speech) when I said he is full of gutter talk. Is this not a free speech zone?

:Jays post said so much about his strength and personal growth but you decide to comment on a couple of words in his post that you find to be "filthy speech".
He said so much more, how could you not see that?!:

I saw what he said. All of it, dear! A little leaven ferments the whole lump. Filth and what is clean do not come out of the same spring.

:I didnt find out the truth about the W.T.S untill I was able to open my mind and look at the whole picture. I stopped reading only one assigned scripture and following up with the watchtower. I began reading the entire page of the bible and evaluating it myself. Only then I saw its true meaning, In other words I took the watchtower blinders off. Please think about that. Are you only seeing what you are told to see or are you seeing whats actually in front of you.:

You do not understand the mystic, my friendly lady. The mystic listens to no one but God. I am one with Christ and he is one with me. I am in him and he is in me; we are united as husband and wife. Got that? I am only accountable to the law of my husband and the Lawgiver.

51

Barb Anderson--Front Page of the Tenn. paper

by VeniceIT in

jw
friends

http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/02/05/17418642.shtml?element_id=17418642 .

here is her front page article, luv the kh sign in the background!!!.

ven

HildaBingen

Dear Dakota:

:More of your "innocent" questions, Hilda? Does it matter whether or not the lady wishes to be a JW?:

Not to me, it doesn't. She is a free moral agent with her own mind and heart.

:What matters is that for 14 years she has sought justice within the religion she belonged to over her daughter being molested. What is the end result? The perpetrator says he is sorry and has full recognition and privileges. The victims, on the other hand, ae booted out and to be totally shunned by others, family included.:

I do not know all of the facts in this case and neither do you, D. I can say this, however, my dear. The children of Israel waited for over 100 years to be released from the ornerous grip of the mean ruler of Egypt and God finally heard their prayers. All it takes is a little patience and trust, my friend. One wise man said that it is better to be wronged than to do wrong.

:Your motives and love of the Watchtower are abundantly clear, Hilda. The only thing missing is how they are compensating you for your harrassment of vicitms here.:

What harrassment, D? I thought this was a free speech zone. Are you saying that only those who agree with the JW dissidents should speak out in this place?

13

Why I'm Still Angry & Benefit from Simon's ...

by patio34 in

jw
friends

some on this board have stated that many here are bitter and need to move on from criticizing the wtbs, even implying that there was something wrong with the mental state of ones who continue in their attacks of jws.

this following seemed to me to hit the nail on the head as to why so many of us stay involved long after weve left the borg.

also, even the watchtower has stated something like, why dont people just leave, why do they have to publicly attack jws?

HildaBingen

Dear patio,

Shun the philosophy of the world. It will bite you everytime, dear. Read Colossians 2:8. Socrates was wrong.

51

Barb Anderson--Front Page of the Tenn. paper

by VeniceIT in

jw
friends

http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/02/05/17418642.shtml?element_id=17418642 .

here is her front page article, luv the kh sign in the background!!!.

ven

HildaBingen

Does Ms Anderson still want to be a JW? Why did she allow such a defiant picture to be taken of her? If she no longer wants to be a JW, she could always become a mystic and support the pope. Or she could go the way of other souls on this board.

I'll fly away.

85

BREAKING MY SILENCE EVERYONE READ!!!

by D8TA in

jw
friends

as ive made it known on this board, my current status with the watchtower bible and tract society is that of inactive.

this is a loophole i have utilized, to keep an open channel of communication with family members in the organization.. i want to clarify with everyone: i do not hold any doctrinal ideas, theology, ideology, opinions expressed in any form by the wtbts.

therefore, to simply put, i do not believe in the wtbts in any way, shape, or form.

HildaBingen

Dear black:

:Hilda,
Many here have been personally effected by the borg, and it is hard to be objective when you have been brutalized mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and in the case of those molested, physically. Objective? Maybe not, but it doesn't mean their experiences aren't real. Their feelings are valid.:

I can understand the plight of those who have been abused. I myself have suffered abuse that is real hard to talk about these days. Karen Armstrong also underwent abuse at the hands of the beloved Catholic Church. Poor lady. Karen has bounced back and now produces objective work, my friend. It takes time but victims can recover.

I do not expect victims of abuse to be objective shortly after abuse of any kind occurs. They have been hurt. But I feel it is wrong to present one's subjective feelings as if they are objective. I also feel it is wrong to skew data in one's favor at such times.

:So, the number 23,000 bothers you? In my opinion, it is probably higher than that. I lived in places all over the country, and I was in many congregations. I think statistically, and judging from the number of cases that have come to light, that the number is valid, perhaps conservative.:

We cannot be subjective here, my dear. Too much is at stake. A hard scientific approach is needed in cases of this nature. The social sciences do not survive on guesses and emotions. There are times when even the mystic must step aside for scientific inquiry, dear black.

:People giving Bill a verbal pat on the back is a good thing. What he is going through is very difficult, and he has lost family members over it. He needs to know that he has support. There is nothing wrong with that.:

I agree. There is nothing wrong with edification. Just make sure that we encourage for the right reasons, right causes, and that we do not overdo it, my friend.

:I have talked to Bill on many occasions, and can readily tell you that he is a sincere person, and not out for personal gain.
Have you talked to him? Do you kmow him? Be careful not to judge him.
Jesus had plenty to say on that topic.:

I have not talked to Mr Bowen. Just read his posts and read where others pat him on the back. I was waiting for him to tell others not to pat him on the back anymore (Acts 12:21-23). Alas! It was not to be in the cards.

:Your comment that JWs should verify everything is interesting. JWs don't do that. When they start to verify things, they leave the borg, because it doesn't take long to realize that they have been deceived.:

What did the beloved apostle say? Make sure of all things--hold fast to that which is fine (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

Everyone of us, JW or not, should heed the admonition of the apostle.

85

BREAKING MY SILENCE EVERYONE READ!!!

by D8TA in

jw
friends

as ive made it known on this board, my current status with the watchtower bible and tract society is that of inactive.

this is a loophole i have utilized, to keep an open channel of communication with family members in the organization.. i want to clarify with everyone: i do not hold any doctrinal ideas, theology, ideology, opinions expressed in any form by the wtbts.

therefore, to simply put, i do not believe in the wtbts in any way, shape, or form.

HildaBingen

Dear Black:

:I never rely on heresay. I personally know of some of the cases.
Because of this, I don't think the numbers are exagerated at all. I was in the borg for 38 years, I saw a lot. I left it because I could no longer stomach having any part of it.
Many on this board have been personally effected by the evil.:

There are problems in the [B]org. That much we all know unless we choose to shut our eyes to the folly of men. But problems in the [B]org or some cases of abuse does not equal 23,000 cases in the US alone. If you had to leave, then more power to you, dear. But the evidence for 23,000 cases of abuse in the JW org has still not been produced.

:You say you can't address the evil in the borg without specific information. There's plenty of specific information in the threads on this board. Dateline will also present specific information. Maybe you need to learn more before expressing an opinion on the matter.:

I originally started to post because I was concerned about the mob mentality here (the social contagion). I could not understand why Mr Bill, if he is the good follower of Christ that he claims to be, would not tell people to stop patting him on the back. Others brought up peripheral issues.

Last I would like to say that I find it hard to trust information given out on this site. Dateline may be objective in their presentation. The people on this list mostly are not objective.

:Instead of maligning members of this board, you need to do some real investigating. I honed my research skills after having been lied to by the borg. I verify everything now.:

Your suggestion is a good one. Let us verify everything, black. Both what Mr Bill tells us and what the JW organization tell us. Just as a Roman Catholic would have trouble accepting what Hans Kung has to say--that heretic!--so a loyal JW should be relunctant to believe what JW dissidents say.