Posts by hillary

58

Goodbye Fred...

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

or should i say goodbye folks.

my posting days on xjw sites are over.. thanks to everybody for making this place so vibrant, informative and at times invigorating.

an special thanks of course to simon and angharad, of whom too many expected too much and who, despite our differing viewpoints at times, have been trustworthy friends to me.

hillary_step

Hello,

Or should I say goodbye folks. My posting days on XJW sites are over.

Thanks to everybody for making this place so vibrant, informative and at times invigorating. An special thanks of course to Simon and Angharad, of whom too many expected too much and who, despite our differing viewpoints at times, have been trustworthy friends to me. I hope that life will be very kind to them both.

I have re-disovered some old friends here, "Duncan" whom I was at school with too long ago to admit too publicly. We both posted here on JWD for a long while before we realized who was whom, as he had no idea that I had left the WTS.

And newer friends, Stilla, whose JW mentor I pioneered with in the 70's. TJKMO who proudly boasted that the wife of a mutual close friend had a crush on him not realizing that she once had a crush on me too and it was not as rare an occurrence as he may have thought. ;) lol..Never did tell ya that did I tjkmo. Japan Boy who once sat in my group while I poisoned the minds of the believers. Funky Derek whose dad was not unkown to me.

The gifted AlanF, the Magnificent Andersons, my old chum Outlaw, the kind and gracious Ginny Tosken, the challenging and unique SevenofNine, Belbab and beautiful missus, the gentle Cog, Steve, Joyazabel and their beautiful daughter, - I had better stop now before the Oscar is driven into my skull with an alarming force by BurnTheShips.

You all know who you are and you have all played a wonderful part in my life, for which I thank you all.

It is always easier to say it with music. Those who know, know:

Siamese Friends

And one from my dearly departed friend Laura:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNd-oR39_9U

Bye folks.

HS

35

Was There Any 1 Thread or Post or Subject That REALLY Got You Thinking???

by minimus in

jw
friends

for me, i was attracted to concrete proofs, facts, published information that showed conclusively the errors of the watchtower.

i love seeing posts that prove the watchtower's hypocrisy.

i very much enjoyed reading anything historical from pre-bible students time to the present day.

hillary_step

Minimus,

Regarding AlanF, I've heard from some of his more intimate associates that he was as bright as they come but couldn't tie his shoes without help. His brilliance might've been irrefutable but his delivery was not always accepted.

DM is talking crap.

Alan is as clued in about everyday life as he is about the subjects that he discusses on discussion boards. He has a scientific mind, not a creative one, and I am sure that he would be the first to admit that but as a friend who knows him, I find that description of him insulting as well as innacurate.

The point about 'delivery' is still being missed. To a person who is ignorant of his subject yet pontificating about it at great length (the board has its fair share of these) and is taken to task, ANYTHING said to them in the way of criticism would not be palatable. You can describe someone a 'bastard' or suggest that their parents marry, the end product is the same. You bastard.

As you have noted, the most worthy posters on this Board have been those who have a blunt, but consistent manner.

HS

35

Was There Any 1 Thread or Post or Subject That REALLY Got You Thinking???

by minimus in

jw
friends

for me, i was attracted to concrete proofs, facts, published information that showed conclusively the errors of the watchtower.

i love seeing posts that prove the watchtower's hypocrisy.

i very much enjoyed reading anything historical from pre-bible students time to the present day.

hillary_step

Minimus,

For some, it depends upon timing. Some people can accept the in your face approach better than others. Most JWs are babies, to begin with. They are often emotionally stunted and cannot accept any type of criticism. That's why group hugs are so popular. To be fair, what's so good about this place is the balance. Otherwise, my bet is that JWD would never have been as successful as it is now. H2O was a great thinking man's site but has pretty much dead for years. And it's not because the posters weren't sharp. It just didn't have a balance that allowed others to feel a comfort level unless they solely wanted to debate. Not all are debaters. Some are lovers.

I can understand what you are saying, but there is a temptation if you take this attitude to paint a scenario that leads to our own particular cognitive dissonance where we hold that wo types of persons are both right and wrong.

The reality is that an international discussion board, with hundreds of different personalities, some newly exited from the WTS, some old hacks, some undergoing therapy, some therapists, some clued in, some as dense as boxwood, will never please anybody or everybody. It is the people who try to make a board what it is not and cannot be, that actually cause the most trouble though they will never see it. They tend to want to imbue a 'personality' to the board, in concert with a memory perhaps of a 'spirit' in a congregation. This cannot happen. Discussion Boards do not have personalities. Their currency is words and words cannot do you any harm or ineed any good, unless YOU the reader give them power to do this.

For example, I recall having a debate with another poster a few years ago in which he used AlanF as an example of how not to post, because his posting style might offend newly emerging JW's. A poster, one of our best TMS wrote these words in a thread on the subject:

For over four decades I was in the business of influencing beliefs by my words and attempting to "adorn" those words by impeccable conduct. Although basically the same person, I am now out of that business.

I could put it no better myself.

HS

35

Was There Any 1 Thread or Post or Subject That REALLY Got You Thinking???

by minimus in

jw
friends

for me, i was attracted to concrete proofs, facts, published information that showed conclusively the errors of the watchtower.

i love seeing posts that prove the watchtower's hypocrisy.

i very much enjoyed reading anything historical from pre-bible students time to the present day.

hillary_step

Burn,

One can be critical, without being an asshole. Assholes just make a stink.

....and your posts would be a lesson in what style?

One mans 'asshole' is anothers critic Burn, THAT was the point of my post....missed by you as usual because you did not stop long enough to think about it before you reacted. Some think you an 'asshole', others just a critic and this would depend on just how much of an 'asshole', or 'critic' you have been.

I have seen AlanF described as an 'asshole' on this board by many of the people that he entered into debate with. I have also seen his name regularly turn up on posts where posters have stated that it was his posts that ensured their exit from the WTS. Same with Farkel, and yes, the same with me. I have a least three email messsages just this week from persons thanking me for driving home points vigorously when needed, especially in my past posts, when I took the XJW 'community' a little more seriously than I do now.

Those days have long gone.

HS

35

Was There Any 1 Thread or Post or Subject That REALLY Got You Thinking???

by minimus in

jw
friends

for me, i was attracted to concrete proofs, facts, published information that showed conclusively the errors of the watchtower.

i love seeing posts that prove the watchtower's hypocrisy.

i very much enjoyed reading anything historical from pre-bible students time to the present day.

hillary_step

Minimus,

It's noteworthy that those that got us really thinking are the bluntest.

This is more than true, it is a truth. The sophomorical, back-slapping, 'supportive' threads that we saw too much of in recent times did nothing to impart life-changing information, but did much to empower the needy in their neediness. The reality is Minimus that people will think others who point out anything that criticizes their thinking in any way, as 'rude', especially emerging JW's who have been convinced, often for decades that what issues from their mind is automatically correct merely because they read an Awake!magazine on the subject once. Often we need to be shaken from the stupor that the WTS left our brains in and made to wake up. The process is not comfortable, but imo the posters who do the shaking are doing us a great service in more ways than we might imagine. HS

25

what would you think

by John Doe in

jw
friends

of this concept for a forum.

seems to me that the driving force behind a lot of bitching at this place is being banned by moderators.

what would you think of a forum where reputations are earned through a point system, and if enough negative rep was earned an automatic banning took place?

hillary_step

Burn,

Your comments are all from your own experience and perspective. Mine are looking at the wider picture.

You may not be interested in informational threads regarding the WTS any more, but there are still six million JW's who may be. I am well past my WTS experiences, but I also see that there are many who are not.

Is it the fluff threads?

The fluff threads appeal to many, I have already noted that. That is why a 'chat' feature is essential as it would serve to remove at least 50% of the threads that clutter a board.

Information is the heart of any XJW site, lose site of that and you lose your focus and your site.

On JWD in the past we have had posts from authors, scientists, artists, musicians etc. etc. But we see so few of such posts these days. Is this due to the people being past their 'scientific' or 'musical' expereinces, or are they no longer authors? Or perhaps that they work hard to produce useful information only to have it buried under a ton of chat and think, 'What is the point'?

HS

25

what would you think

by John Doe in

jw
friends

of this concept for a forum.

seems to me that the driving force behind a lot of bitching at this place is being banned by moderators.

what would you think of a forum where reputations are earned through a point system, and if enough negative rep was earned an automatic banning took place?

hillary_step

John,

I think your perception of a good forum is interesting. Yes, dissemination of information is certainly valuable. However, did I not read a post recently where you said you thought the face of xjws was chaning, that the new ones are a more social group? How does that fit into the picture?

Give them 'chat' John. That is what they want. However, the heart of any XJW site is information. Without it the site will die.

Yes, we are seeing a new demographic of XJW's the past few years as more people find the internet and find a voice. These are frankly much more emotionally needy than those I have seen in the past. They are far less informed about WTS matters, which is often the reason that many want a 'Kingdom Hall' atmosphere without the religion. Many are extremely dysfunctional and their time would be better spent searching for a therapist rather than doodling on discussion Boards.

An informational site with meatier and yes, vigorous debates, will be of little interest to such people. Chat will attract them more than anything and with the demise of JWD their will be plenty of 'social' XJW discussion boards to fill that need anyway.

What I have not seen is any person yet with some sort of serious vision for a definitive XJW board that provides an outlet for informative and serious posts.

HS

25

what would you think

by John Doe in

jw
friends

of this concept for a forum.

seems to me that the driving force behind a lot of bitching at this place is being banned by moderators.

what would you think of a forum where reputations are earned through a point system, and if enough negative rep was earned an automatic banning took place?

hillary_step

Burn,

Great formula for promoting groupthink.

Too true.

When the group thinks, it may not be so dangerous, but XJW's carrying baggage - duck for cover.

HS

135

My theory about the behavior and obsession of some ex-JWs

by Simon in

jw
friends

i've had this theory for some time and alluded to it occassionally but have never explored it in detail.. it is of course a huge generalisation so no, not everyone will fit into the boxes and i'd like people's opinion.

i don't know everyone's circumstances so it's based on a small sample of some of those i do know something about.

it could be completely wrong, it's just an idea.. basically, i have seen a difference between some of those ex-jws who walked out vs those who were kicked out.. the most bitter and obsessive seem to be the kicked out and, i must add, those who were legitimately kicked out.

hillary_step

LisaAnn,

Interesting... perhaps I misunderstood the purpose of this forum.

Yes, you did and that is the only accurate comment in your post apart from your acknowledging that Gerard behaved like a 'dumbass'.

Gerard did behave like a 'dumbass'. He was called on it.

HS

11

GOLD ! So Pretty & Sparkling...

by Rabbit in

luckily the un is 'on the job' , plus other countries and big gold trading companies have formed 'investigating' commitees to look into any nasty accusations of dangerous child labor.

and...good news !

they didn't 'see' any problems.... reading this story, i realized the truth of the old sage, "walk a mile hundred miles in another mans shoes little boys flip-flops.".

hillary_step

Rabbit,

I do see the UN as helpful in some ways, but, utterly toothless in true emergencies. They "...move slowly and lumber along...", like in Darfur for over a decade and very little has changed. It seems certain BIG countries using their permanent VETO powers to stop any real action are the real impediment. The best thing the UN does -- is to provide a forum (like this board) for countries to complain, organize, publicize and even embarrass idiotic leaders. Better still -- let them embarrass themselves.

I have to disagree with a large part of your post above.

Most people fall into the trap of imagining that the UN is a beast that is unleashed in times of emergency and that between these emergencies it lies dormant.

The UN was NEVER established to deal with emergency situations. It is a worldwide working government of sorts and its accent where conflicts are concerned is generally on peacekeeping, not on confrontation. That is its brief. UN soldiers are among the bravest on any battlefield as they become the soft targets for both sides of the conflict, an example being the deliberate murder of a UN soldier in an air attack by the Israeli's in the Lebanon skirmish. One of my closest friends was a peacekeeper in Yugoslavia and put his life on the line in ways that most soldiers need never worry about. I know many mamebers of the Irish UN contingent and they have courage to burn.

The reality is however, and this is the point that is missed by so many, that the main responsibilities of the UN is not carried out in armed vehicles.

Take a long look at some of the successes of the UN in recent times:

http://www.un.org/Overview/achieve.html

I do hope that many of the prejudices, some inherited from the WTS, that many have against the UN are judged against a framework that is fair and just.

HS

hillary_step

Posts by hillary_step