i realize i peddle carl sagan like christians peddle jesus but i think every one of us who has survived the watchtower, regardless of our current beliefs, should be able to appreciate this.
in the path to freedom (chapter from one of his books), sagan was discussing frederick (bailey) douglass's life in the early 19th century and his quest for literal freedom.
see if anything here sounds familiar:.
The WT uses Information Control to keep their members ignorant of so many facts. The result is seven million 'illiterate' slaves, held captive by ignorance, fear and guilt. I was a slave to them for 23 years. One of the happiest days of my life was when I released the bonds and took control of my future.
http://freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php#information
this is one that i've been struggling with since i started hanging out here.
when you get on a thread and quote a scripture with a comment to make a point, the believers who have never been jw's often knee jerk reaction jump all over it, and in essensce say that you cannot understand the passage because you are not a believer like them.. it's as if they are saying what is written and what you have learned about certain passages are automatically wrong just because you were taught from a jw perspective, or that you lack basic reading comprehension.
i agree many of the jw teachings are off, but i can certainly respect more of their interpretations of scriptures than i can of other christian denominations.
Pick a topic and lets find out.
thinking of becoming one of jehovah's witnesses?
on page 109 of steve hassan's first book, 'combatting cult mind control', he advises that people ask the representative of the group the following series of questions:.
"how do you feel about former members of your group?
bttt
so i thought ill check to see how "strong" the things are i believe in.
im still hooked to allot of the wts's teachings, and i still believe in allot of them , even thought i have enough questions of my own to start my own bible school.. so what would you ask me as a "witness" now, so i can try and defend my faith and by doing so, that i might learn something about myself, and what i believe in..
Have you read Captives of a Concept?
What evidence is there to support the idea that Jesus selected the WT organization in 1919 as being special?
1. if you say that reducing harm is a valid standard because that is what people want, then how are you not committing the logical fallacy of begging the question by saying that what people want, is what makes something morally right?.
2. if you say that reducing harm is a valid standard of morality because that is what people want, then how are you not promoting an arbitrary standard since it is based on peoples subjective feelings and desires which change?
3. if reducing overall harm is the standard of morality, then should a nation that is being attacked by another nation not practice self-defense, since by defending itself it may very well increase overall harm to both nations?.
You can threaten people will burning in literal fire for all eternity for disobedience. You can promise them eternal bliss for obedience.
Still, they do whatever they please.
Nothing will ever change this.
So, how is an absolute standard relevant to our lives?
1. if you say that reducing harm is a valid standard because that is what people want, then how are you not committing the logical fallacy of begging the question by saying that what people want, is what makes something morally right?.
2. if you say that reducing harm is a valid standard of morality because that is what people want, then how are you not promoting an arbitrary standard since it is based on peoples subjective feelings and desires which change?
3. if reducing overall harm is the standard of morality, then should a nation that is being attacked by another nation not practice self-defense, since by defending itself it may very well increase overall harm to both nations?.
Why worry about a standard?
All seven billion of us will continue to do whatever we'd like to do, and then we'll all live with the consequences.
i am no longer one of jehovah's witnesses(well mentally that is)---however i am a christian...i recently started reading different translations from www.biblegateway.com...jesus is so different to how the jw's teach....and god...i mean, i still am learning and confused about certain things but i am in love with them.... it's obvious that the jw's are not an organization of god.i don't think god is working through an organization but through individuals...however i am going to speak to an elder tomorrow about my issues---all of them---and i'm going to tell him everything--what i've been reading,where i got it from---everything!!
i'm not hiding anything!
i have done no wrong....i just want to be a true christian and if they disfellowship me for seeking answers then this is not where i need to be.
MsGrowingGirl20: Will you please remind me whether or not you've read Hassan's first book? (You're about to experience an aspect of the WT religion that may seem unexpected and harsh. This book will explain what's going on inside the heads of the JWs you know.)
i am no longer one of jehovah's witnesses(well mentally that is)---however i am a christian...i recently started reading different translations from www.biblegateway.com...jesus is so different to how the jw's teach....and god...i mean, i still am learning and confused about certain things but i am in love with them.... it's obvious that the jw's are not an organization of god.i don't think god is working through an organization but through individuals...however i am going to speak to an elder tomorrow about my issues---all of them---and i'm going to tell him everything--what i've been reading,where i got it from---everything!!
i'm not hiding anything!
i have done no wrong....i just want to be a true christian and if they disfellowship me for seeking answers then this is not where i need to be.
If you tell them the truth, prepare to be disfellowshipped.
sooo i was a ministerial servant (omg a ministerial servant on this site!?
you apostate!!!
) yea yea i just wanted to see what other people think and whatever, coz i had a few questions myself, (butttt its not like i was about to start throwing them with rocks and stuff, they arent that bad).
"If you would act like a good JW, we wouldn't have to treat you like crap."
my jw brother-in-law is 32. he admitted to me the other day he's been inactive since 1989 (pretty much right after baptism).
he stopped going to the meetings in 2003, and acknowledges he is a fader.. his reason for not attending the meetings was the lack of passion for jehovah exhibited by the elders and the brothers and sisters.
he attended four different congregations in the fort worth/haltom city area of texas.
Most inactive JWs are mentally captive.
