Posts by hooberus

182

Words for the Day; please share

by compound complex in

jw
friends

greetings, word lovers:.

in my job, i work with words and wrangle them into shape, well, in a manner of speaking.

one word might be mistaken for another, a word with either a similar or identical sound.

hooberus

Quick question???

perhaps I have an old browser , but how do I operate the quote function ?

Thanks

63

Evolution is a Fact #27 - Monkeys, Typewriters, Shakespeare, 747s etc.

by cofty in

most creationist arguments can be summarised as "complexity, complexity, complexity - therefore god".

we have all heard the illustrations about the odds of (insert favourite example) evolving, being less than 10,000 monkeys typing macbeth by pure chance.

evolution is not like that.

Let's say one individual in a population of 10,000 acquires a favourable mutation. That has no effect on how many offspring the other 99,999 have. But over many generations the percentage of individuals with the mutation will gradually increase. Each generation of individuals with the mutation will do slightly better at leaving descendants. No change in the overall population will occur but the percentage of the whole population who have the favourable mutation will increase from 0.001% to closer to 100% while those without it gradually move in the opposite direction.

It really is a very simple concept."

I'm not being obtuse, I simpy explained how to have perfect selection in one generation, you had to pay the price of the elimination of the other 9,999 in that same generation (destroying your population) for the evolutionary scenario to work. Your example tried to have the benefit of perfect selection, without the price. There is a cost to selective replacement that must must be paid. In this case the cost in the real world would indeed be the lives of the other 9,999. I was simply showing that an evolutionists own "rosy example scenario" when adjusted for reality runs into trouble.

Obviously evolutionists are aware that single generation replacement has a horrific effect in the real world, so they try to spread it over many generations. But this requires the slow replacement of all the descendants AND their offspring having the unfavorable gene. Thus a number MUCH larger than 9,999. This takes time. The standard evolution model (with favorable assumptions) is one replacement every 300 generations. Which seems to goes unnoticed as being a problem.

However, when compared with the evolutionists "human evolution" timescale (5 million years since common ancestor with chimps) a problem developes, since humans have a slow generation time. In fact with a 20 year generation time the standard model of "evolution" allows only 833 beneficial mutations to have accumulated.

5 million years divided by 20 = 250,000 generations

250,000 divided by 300 (standard model) = only 833 beneficial mutations. (most of which are a single nucleotide)

Perhaps evolutionists have or will someday come up with a new genetics model, but it must have biological reality in its assumptions.

And actually the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of beneficial mutations are ELIMINATED early on by genetic drift. Most evolutionists are not generally aware of this.

Another real killer is when deleterious mutations are factored in. Your example of typing asumed that once typed, the words were prevented from degeneration by later mutations. In reality each of us recieves many each generation.

63

Evolution is a Fact #27 - Monkeys, Typewriters, Shakespeare, 747s etc.

by cofty in

most creationist arguments can be summarised as "complexity, complexity, complexity - therefore god".

we have all heard the illustrations about the odds of (insert favourite example) evolving, being less than 10,000 monkeys typing macbeth by pure chance.

evolution is not like that.

hooberus

In the real world of course the offspring entities are not pages, but baby monkeys. if "all the other" "are scrapped", then there is only ONE baby left. It now will be a long time to build up the population. Your example tries to have both perfect selection (100%), and a constant population size (10,000) between generations.

I simply showed the reality of what happens to YOUR OWN PRO-EVOLUTION scenario when adjusted for reality.

63

Evolution is a Fact #27 - Monkeys, Typewriters, Shakespeare, 747s etc.

by cofty in

most creationist arguments can be summarised as "complexity, complexity, complexity - therefore god".

we have all heard the illustrations about the odds of (insert favourite example) evolving, being less than 10,000 monkeys typing macbeth by pure chance.

evolution is not like that.

hooberus

Oh I "understood" it alright. Its just when you try to make it revelatant to the real world it FAILS completely.

Your OWN "inevitable" evolution example actually was inevitable extinction. (And this is from a "pro-evolution" example!)

You "illustration" is more reflective of misleading evoluionist argumentation, than reality.

63

Evolution is a Fact #27 - Monkeys, Typewriters, Shakespeare, 747s etc.

by cofty in

most creationist arguments can be summarised as "complexity, complexity, complexity - therefore god".

we have all heard the illustrations about the odds of (insert favourite example) evolving, being less than 10,000 monkeys typing macbeth by pure chance.

evolution is not like that.

hooberus

From the Opening Post:

"Most creationist arguments can be summarised as "complexity, complexity, complexity - therefore god"

We have all heard the illustrations about the odds of (insert favourite example) evolving, being less than 10,000 monkeys typing Macbeth by pure chance.

Evolution is not like that.

The genius of Charles Darwin was in recognising the power of natural selection as an accumulator of small random changes.

Imagine our 10,000 monkeys randomly typing until one of them by pure chance comes up with "When.."

At that point all the other pages are scrapped and every monkey is given a copy of this page. We observe some more until another monkey adds "shall.." and so on through thousands of iterations. How long would it take to achieve "When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?" Completing the full play now becomes inevitable.

Evolution is a little bit like that."

Not really!

Your example gives perfect selection in one generation with no reduction in population size. In order to acheive perfect selection, you would have to have the 9,999 of the monkeys with the wrong typing be ELIMINATED without typing again. This reduces your population to only 1 typing monkey (the one that typed "When"). One monkey would be extinction. Your example killed the population.

Even if one monkey could somehow reproduce it would take many years for the population size to increase back to 10,000 again. Such a small population would be very vulnerable to extinction by chance processes.

50

Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible

by Simon in

jws like to think they have found the one true religion.

but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?

not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?

hooberus

The O.P. uses both the term "religion" and "belief system". I will therefore use "belief system" in discussion .

Simon wrote:

Yes, I don't think there is any one true religion, they are all as fake as each other, just some more dangerous.

Using "belief system" your comment would read

Yes, I don't think there is any one true [belief system], they are all as fake as each other, just some more dangerous.

Is this statement part of your belief system?

If so shouldn't we reject it as part of a fake system?

21

Damaging Children With the Christian Gospel

by cofty in

the christian gospel begins with the dehumanising assertion that all humans are fallen sinners who deserve nothing but god's judgement and wrath.. not only does this taint all relationships between christians and unbelievers, it destroys the beautiful innocence of childhood.

in a recent edition of the popular christian radio program "family life today", titled “introducing your child to god,” co-host bob lepine discussed teaching “practical theology” to his young daughter, explaining:.

when my daughter, amy, was still less than two years old, i started teaching practical theology to her.

hooberus

If atheism is true aren't children simply a soulless bag of atoms?

The result of random copying mistakes filtered by purposeless differential survival?

39

Evolution is a Fact #12 - Lenski's E. coli Experiment

by cofty in

evolution works by the non-random selection of random mutation.

natural selection accumulates favourable random chance events.. the experiment that was began on 24th february 1988 on e coli bacteria by dr richard e. lenski and his team is surely one of the clearest demonstrations of the power of this process.. e.coli is one of the commonest bacterium on earth, there is around 100 billion, billion of them in the world at any given time and around 1 billion of them in your gut right now.

most of the time they cause no problem, until a new strain wreaks havoc on its host's digestive system.. if we assume the probability of a particular gene mutating to be 1 in a billion, the size of the population is so high that just about every gene in the e.coli genome will have mutated somewhere in the world every day.

hooberus

you didn't even read the OP did you Hooby?

Ugh, yes I did.

39

Evolution is a Fact #12 - Lenski's E. coli Experiment

by cofty in

evolution works by the non-random selection of random mutation.

natural selection accumulates favourable random chance events.. the experiment that was began on 24th february 1988 on e coli bacteria by dr richard e. lenski and his team is surely one of the clearest demonstrations of the power of this process.. e.coli is one of the commonest bacterium on earth, there is around 100 billion, billion of them in the world at any given time and around 1 billion of them in your gut right now.

most of the time they cause no problem, until a new strain wreaks havoc on its host's digestive system.. if we assume the probability of a particular gene mutating to be 1 in a billion, the size of the population is so high that just about every gene in the e.coli genome will have mutated somewhere in the world every day.

hooberus

Anyone can read the short posted article and its references. If you still think that the O.P. provides proof that the evolutionists claimed version of history is true over creation than that's fine.

Evolutionits claim to be purely evidence based, yet any information presented questioning evolutionary claims is immediately dismissed (Here as coming from "bullshit" -see also coftys response to links on his "10 questions for creationists" thread where the creation research society was dismissed as a "bullshit" website as well.

And evolutionists think it as some sort of great evidence when no one wants to take their TIME to dialogue with them.

39

Evolution is a Fact #12 - Lenski's E. coli Experiment

by cofty in

evolution works by the non-random selection of random mutation.

natural selection accumulates favourable random chance events.. the experiment that was began on 24th february 1988 on e coli bacteria by dr richard e. lenski and his team is surely one of the clearest demonstrations of the power of this process.. e.coli is one of the commonest bacterium on earth, there is around 100 billion, billion of them in the world at any given time and around 1 billion of them in your gut right now.

most of the time they cause no problem, until a new strain wreaks havoc on its host's digestive system.. if we assume the probability of a particular gene mutating to be 1 in a billion, the size of the population is so high that just about every gene in the e.coli genome will have mutated somewhere in the world every day.

hooberus

I don't post articles for the Evo-dogmatists here.