Posts by StoneWall

347

Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

by StoneWall in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-slagzjmdu.

StoneWall

XJW4EVR also stated in regards to selling all your belongings and becoming a follower of Christ at Matt.19:21:

I really can't believe that you have to be walked through this! This statement was issued to a specific person with a specific issue, if you have any doubts read Matthew 19:16-22. Now, is this particular situation applicable to all Christians now, and in times past? Not necessarily, but Jesus never said that money was the problem, but that making money an idol was the issue.

OK lets analyze this a moment. Would Jesus or should Jesus have two sets of scales? Should he expect this follower

to do something he doesn't expect of his other followers?

Just in case you don't follow what I'm getting at look at Luke 14 and read the whole chapter if you'd like so you

know the setting as well to who Jesus was talking to.

Then notice this verse in that chapter 14:33 "Thus, you may be sure, none of YOU that does not say good-bye to all his belongings can be my disciple." (NWT)

The fact it says none of you denotes that he was/is talking to more than an individual right? So more than one.

The fact it states also none of you, does that mean everyone to you or just those back then?

If it applies to only those back then, then there's two set of standards, two sets of scales so to speak.

347

Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

by StoneWall in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-slagzjmdu.

Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

by StoneWall in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-slagzjmdu.

StoneWall

Wow the discussions have continued while I been away. Very nice.

I would like to go back and touch on something that I intentionally skipped over last night because of being tired and

sleepy.(and frankly was wanting time to think how to answer such a wild,fanciful "explanation")

Quoting XJW4EVR:

If someone is righthanded, and they throw a right cross (since most people are righthanded, this is a logical presumption), what cheek are they going to hit? The left. If someone is righthanded, and strikes your right cheek, what have they done? A backhanded and insulting slap. The issue here is not about pacifism in the face of all violence, but pacifism in the case of violenece done to a believer as an insult to his beliefs.

This has got to be the most imaginative,grasping at straws,trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat,jumping through hoops,

throwing the ball up and hoping for anything piece of literary work I've seen in a long time.

I've read a lot but this takes the cake.

I'll have to agree with exjdub about this being one heck of a spin.

I noticed that everyone else kinda glossed over this or decided to talk about something else other than exjdub.

(thanks exjdub for quoting that earlier and letting me know I wasn't the only one that was having a hard time digesting

that explanation.)

Was everyone else just to flabbergasted to respond or did you actually understand/agree with it?

*Edited to add: This was his response to Jesus saying to turn the other cheek in case you're wondering what it was

dealing with, since a lot of posts have occured between his post and now.

14

I'm leaving .....

by RR in

jw
friends

.... no, not the forum, just the computer for a few minutes, i'm hungry!

bye!.

StoneWall

So just out of curiousity RR, what did you get to eat?

347

Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

by StoneWall in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-slagzjmdu.

StoneWall

not a captive said:

I have been used to having my grammar corrected during troublesome disputes with my vastly better educated husband; so I recognize passive aggression when I see it.

Do you now? Under no circumstances should you take what I said as aggresive in any form.(even passively)

I like when someone points out where I make a mistake whether it be spelling,punctuation,grammar or otherwise,as

long as it's done with good motive or intent as you stated above. It lets me know they took interest in something I had

to say, even if they might not agree with what was said.

I think of this scripture in Proverbs that I like.

Proverbs 9:8,9 "Do not reprove a ridiculer, that he may not hate you. Give a reproof to a wise person and he will love you. 9 Give to a wise person and he will become still wiser. Impart knowledge to someone righteous and he will increase in learning."

I have very much enjoyed reading your posts as of late, and the other night I read through your letters you had written to Elders,the congregation and even the society. I was very impressed that you stood up for what you saw in the scriptures and was willing to suffer the consequences.

Very commendable. Keep on knocking.Keep on searching.

And if I remember correctly, I think it was you on some other thread that said you had laughed more these last couple months

than you have had in years. That resonated with me because I too have laughed very much as of late and have needed

it for some time.

What do you think of Jesus comments on the law of Moses?

I will leave this for another time because I was never that impressed with the law of Moses since no one could ever measure up to it since it was pointing to something better in the future.

But suffice it to say the law I was impresssed with is this one at Romans 2:14

" For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves"

23

ATTENTION ALL LURKING, CURIOUS JW'S, JW TROLLS, AND FORMER JW'S DETERMINED TO SAVE JW'S FROM THEMSELVES

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

thank you all.. it seems that we former jw's have excellent reasons to be be upset.

between being lied to about how russell and rutherford started this fruity little cult, having to deal with the coverups of pedophiles and other criminals, the mysoginistic treatment of women, being lied to about 1914 and the related date of 607 bce, the ridiculous and ever changing blood doctrine, being lied to about gb involvement in the un, the changed it once and now back again understanding of what a "generation" is, being lied to about when the end of this system was supposed to come, being lied to about 1975, being told not to go to college and instead explore the underrated world of window washing with the outstanding income potential it produces...... *panting* i am sorry, i am out of breath...... my point is this, (and i speak from experience): former jw's are pretty raw.

and thus, easily exploitable on internet boards by trolls.. trolls see this.

StoneWall

sherah said:

I lurked when the troll "R" was posting. What struck me about her was her lack of debating skills, her refusal to use or even research WT publications or use the NWT in her quotations. For lack of these things, nothing she wrote held any weight with this lurker. Many were concerned that she would influence the lurkers with her weak arguments. Not this lurker, i could clearly see that 'the truth' could not stand up to logical reasoning and facts.

In the quote above I underlined the part that caught my attention.

This "R" sounds a lot like the recent "BANE" that just basically could not provide any facts,figures,scriptures to back up

anything that was being discussed. The most he could get out is I've heard it all before blah,blah,blah.

I kept waiting and hoping that he would share some of his "knowledge" with us and show us the error of our ways. LOL

18

Are there dangers in being 'spiritual but not religious'? - CNN Article

by Mr. Monday Night in

jw
friends

hello friends -.

i would like to share a news article from cnn i thought was interesting.

i'm 'spritual but not religious' person who still believes in god almighty and jesus as his son.

StoneWall

Without a spiritual community and being just you and God would you be moved to reach out to those in need?

I kinda think of the illustration of the good samaritan. How it wasn't necessarily someone in his church,temple,synagogue

or whatever that spurred him into action but just that he saw someone in need and was willing to help out.

To me thats the bigger message of Jesus. He didn't say go out and join a church(organization) so that you can be in a

better position to help others. Just basically being a good natured person and help any you see could use assistance.

But I can also see Balsam's point. Some people need to be around others to spur them on or to get motivated.

347

Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

by StoneWall in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-slagzjmdu.

StoneWall

Talking about taking things out of context. Lets's examine this

Luke 22:35-38: Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered.
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”
The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That is enough,” he replied.

Look at the part"And he was numbered with the transgressors."

Who at that time was known for having swords. Remember reading about roadside bandits and "highwaymen"?

The robbers,bandits,thieves and Rogues were all well known for carrying swords. By having these swords and going about

their way they could have just as easily been numbered in with them.

If you continue reading further in Luke you will see that Jesus made sure they had the swords so it could take place with

Peter about him striking the ear of the slave and taking it off. No where did Jesus say to defend him or retaliate.

Matter of fact if you look closely at Luke 22:49 which states in part "Lord shall we strike with the sword?"

Notice what Jesus told them.

My point is the swords had to be there for Jesus to show them "that he who lives by the sword will die by the sword"

That is why he instructed them to purchase them.

Notice verse 52 gives it all away about how Jesus was reckoned in with the robbers

"Jesus then said to the chief priests and captains of the temple and older men that had come there for him: “Did YOU come out with swords and clubs as against a robber?"

So please read the whole chapter before trying to show Jesus was asking them to get swords to fight back with.

The whole chapter clearly shows what his intentions were.

347

Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

by StoneWall in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-slagzjmdu.

StoneWall

Remember that Jesus did not bind himself to scriptures.

I would have to disagree somewhat with this statement.

Go back in your bible and read Matthew chapter 4(where Jesus is being tempted by Satan) and read how many times

Jesus quoted scripture and said "it is written"

There is many more if you need me to get them for further reference.

Why try to polerize , why try not to understand each other.

If you meant polarize, that is not what I'm trying to do, just to understand why people feel or think the way they do.

Is it rational discussion we want or just debates?

Why not both. I like rational discussions but even debates serve a purpose.

347

Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

by StoneWall in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-slagzjmdu.

StoneWall

Just because we love our enemies does not mean we can't defend ourselves against them when they try to kill us.

BINGO!!!

So the rational part of our minds will cause us to realize that when being attacked to defend ourselves.

Even though it is written that he that lives by the sword will die by the sword, and to not return evil for evil to no one,

the author of this video is apparently trying to show that even professsed christians wil ignore parts of it when it doesn't

suit them or what their rational part of their brain is trying to tell them.

Is there anywhere in the bible record of where Jesus said to defend yourselves or retaliate?

We can all recall words such as turn the other cheek:

Matthew 5:38-39 "YOU heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39 However, I say to YOU: Do not resist him that is wicked; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. (NWT)

In other words it so easy to read in the bible about selling everything you have and disperse it to the poor, but how many

christians will/would follow through with that part?

Even though I don't agree with all that is stated in this video, I think the author of said work makes some valid remarks about how

even "christians" have no problem disobeying parts of the bible or words attributed to Jesus, when it doesn't fit in

with their perceptions.