Posts by hybridous

17

Is reasoning with a JW the answer?

by Saved_JW in

when i first left the watchtower society, i can remember being very eager to learn new information, especially information which pertained to discrediting the watchtower organization.

i called it "the cage stage" .

this excitement and newfound change in worldview completely rocked my world.

hybridous

'To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.'
- Thomas Paine

Good OP. I like this stuff. Not that it's helped me 'rescue' one family member in. But it's edifying, and serves (to some extent) in smoothing out some rough edges when dealing with JW family. To know them, know their motivations; their fears. This can be useful.

I've largely given up on trying to reason with JWs. One cannot reason them out of beliefs they did not reason themselves into at the start. It helps to know the family history. How some simple-minded and gullible people got scared, and foisted nonsense onto their kids, who didn't know anything else. And 2 generations later, here we are.

I like your closing remarks about being someone who cares - the 'safety net'. I'm maintaining contact with the family for just that purpose. It's hard to do this, while having no expectations at all that it will be used.

113

I just found out that my youngest brother committed suicide

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

my middle brother called me a couple of hours ago.

our youngest brother, josh, who was 38, was found by his friends in his apartment.

he hung himself.

hybridous

So sorry to hear, Snakes.

I've lost a friend that way. One that was closer then my real brother. It was part of a life-changing year for me.

You honor us by sharing your burden of grief. I'm glad you have found people to share it with.

35

No Kingdom Halls would definitely work!

by John Aquila in

last night we were invited to a get-together with quite a few heavies attendingelders and regular pioneers.

there was beer and later some music.

everyone got relaxed and let down their guard and starting talking all kinds of non-theocratic stuff that you only discuss after a few beers.

hybridous

Interesting OP,

I presume that the one major obstacle to overcome would be the 'hardliners' in the ORG that would balk at the potential loss of control.

Reformers gotta figure out how to frame the narrative. Hardliners actually could be costing the ORG money and threatening its survivability. Hardliners 'out' for the sake of God's Organization. It's all in the presentation.

23

WT is a human rights violator according to the definition of state.gov and USA law - time for us to start putting pressure in lawmakers!

by EndofMysteries in

religious freedom taken from http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/religiousfreedom/index.htm#wrapper.

quotingdirectly from the article...."it is the responsibility of governments to safeguard universal human rights and fundamental freedoms, including the right to life and the freedom of conscience, belief, practice, worship, and to explain and change ones faith.........people cannot enjoy religious freedom unless they have both the right to express their beliefs freely and change their religion without facing persecution, violence, or discrimination.... (ask yourself if the wt article i'm quoting next is allowing the freedom to change religion without discrimination and persecution.

so with that being said.....is the wt protecting religious freedom?

hybridous

Sparrow,

Don't forget money. They care about that, too. So all we need is a high-powered lobbying group to apply some pressure.

Of course, that'll take money, too. My wallet will be closed. I don't think I'm gonna spend money to leverage myself into the lives of people that don't really want me there in the first place...

23

WT is a human rights violator according to the definition of state.gov and USA law - time for us to start putting pressure in lawmakers!

by EndofMysteries in

religious freedom taken from http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/religiousfreedom/index.htm#wrapper.

quotingdirectly from the article...."it is the responsibility of governments to safeguard universal human rights and fundamental freedoms, including the right to life and the freedom of conscience, belief, practice, worship, and to explain and change ones faith.........people cannot enjoy religious freedom unless they have both the right to express their beliefs freely and change their religion without facing persecution, violence, or discrimination.... (ask yourself if the wt article i'm quoting next is allowing the freedom to change religion without discrimination and persecution.

so with that being said.....is the wt protecting religious freedom?

hybridous

No piece of legislation, no decree of the king, can undo what has been done and mend broken relationships.

Even if you got your laws in place, true-believers are going to know the score, and keep you at arms length.

They might not outright 'shun' you, but the relationship will not be restored to the original conditions present when you were a WT adherent.

They will always see you as having something 'wrong' with you.

Because they decided that WT opinions are most important of all. Even more important than their own. What can you do for people who abdicate the use of reason?

Not trying to minimize the pain that shunning can bring. I've felt it myself. Most of us here have. But it's a decision they make, and must own themselves.

137

Something interesting!

by John Aquila in

i was invited to a small get-together by a long time friend.

we both served as elders for years.

he is in his late 70s.

hybridous

I can understand the skepticism. I have some myself.

But isn't it mostly because, although we can acknowledge the probable eventuality of something like this, we've just not yet experienced it?

I mean, it's one thing to know that one day, big stuff will go down. It's another thing to know that we're actually sailing those waters.

I am cautiously optimistic.

54

Paranoia after today's Watchtower

by Truthexplorer in

boy oh boy did i feel paranoid at today's wt.

not only are we to watch our associations outside of the congregation, but also watch our associations 'within' the congregation.

this was emphasised by the wt study conductor.

hybridous

Good comment by stuckinarut2

The Tower has always wanted to destroy (if at all possible), or at least minimize to the fullest extent, the non-JW relationships of the average JW.

The only thing that made it tenable was the association, the feeling to belonging within the walls of the Org.

Now look as the Org seeks to kick out that one last crutch. You're a JW, you can't have close trusting relationships with worldly folks on the outside, and furthermore, you likely cannot have them with your fellow JWs.

The Tower is basically begging for JWs to equivocate...I wonder why TPTB in there wouldn't have thought to steer clear of that, but then, I don't think there's much thinking going on there at all, these days.

51

What is the best debate you've ever read on this board...

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

who won, and why?.

the rebel..

hybridous

Back in the day, I found the back-and-forth's with YOU KNOW quite notable.

He was an independent mercenary for the WTs cause. And if he couldn't bring a winning argument for the Tower, then there was none to bring.

54

What would you do if the Society Declares Bankruptcy

by Quarterback in

jw
friends

special pioneers let go.

bethel workers laid off.

construction halts, what's next?

hybridous

Yeah, this may be all wishful thinking...

Maybe the best we get to experience is in knowing that they are on the decline, and that their Halcyon Days are long past; probably never to return....

But if it all went down at once, I guess I'd make myself more available to the family I've been keeping at arms length...

It would be hard to keep myself from having expectations concerning their reasoning/belief systems and associated behaviors. I'm just now coming to terms with the overwhelming likelihood that they are in FOR LIFE, no matter what happens or does not happen.

Something catastrophic could happen to the tower, and it would mean the world to us here, and we'd hear of families reuniting, and greet new ex-JWs here and offer support. It would be a happy time for a lot of you, and I'd be glad for that. But for me and my peeps...I just don't see them ever giving up the dream. They are going down with the ship.

You cannot reason people out of beliefs that they did not get reasoned into...

26

How was it when you were a JW as a kid?

by nevaagain in

jw
friends

whats worse than being an adult jw?

when i was a kid i always had a bad concience all the time.

i believed i would not survive armageddon for the fact that i didn't like going to service and i didnt like going to the meetings.

hybridous

It freakin sucked. I could see all the lying and double standards, but wasn't allowed to point it out.

I was told to 'make the truth my own', which I took to mean scrutinizing it to the point of eliminating doubts...so I tried, but it didn't hold up too well when I kicked the tires, ya know?

As a side note, is that phrase still a part of modern JW jargon? I haven't heard it in quite a while. If it's been retired, maybe it was costing the Org more than it helped...

Holidays are more-or-less ruined for me. I now have the freedom to 'celebrate' whatever I like, I just don't have the emotional connection that would make me want to. In a way, it's easier, since I don't have any pre-conceived notion of the 'right' or 'wrong' way to do Christmas or birthdays, or whatever.

Although, the cognitive distortions imposed upon me as a kid sent me into therapy as an adult, which made things infinitely better for me and my kids....

I can't recommend it enough, for those of us still carrying JW baggage.