My thoughts are with you Mary…I hope your situation gets better soon…
LUKEWARM
JoinedPosts by LUKEWARM
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CURSE GOD AND DIE...
by Mary inever feel like you just wanna give up?
i'm losing my job at the end of this month.
because of the financial situation in the world, there's a hiring freeze on both internally and externally and hardly any positions are coming up.
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The WTS need a new tentacle of control
by passwordprotected inthe watch tower bible and tract society was founded on the belief that armageddon is imminent.
in the late 1870s when charles t russell gave up his business interests and began preaching that christ had returned - invisibly, of course - in 1874 and that by 1914 the current system would be over with, a religious model pinched from the adventists and millerites, was established.. 1914 came and went, this old system lumbered on, and the wtbts in the person of russell began re-reading his favourite biblical texts and re-calibrating his 'pyramidological' calculations.
yes, his prophecies hadn't come true, but the bible students lived to predict another end of the world.
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LUKEWARM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality
"Herd mentality implies a fear-based reaction to peer pressure which makes individuals act in order to avoid feeling "left behind" from the group"
As long as the WTS can keep its members occupied in thinking that there is only one group, one channel God is using, that they are that unique group and that salvation is only possible by association with them, then this "heard mentality" takes over and they continue their agenda uninterrupted.
Lukewarm
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LUKEWARM
Interesting info French!
Do you know where can we find information on the %'s of whole blood for the fractions WTS allows?
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-15-09 WT Study (DISCIPLE)
by blondie incomments you will not hear at the 03-15-09 wt study (december 15, 2008, pages 7-11)(disciple-making).
review comments will be in red.
wt material from today's wt will be in black.
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LUKEWARM
Thanks for this Blondie!! Agree with Panzer, I too look forward to your insightful comments here each week.
Here are some of my observations:
Paragraph 2: "Have you ...ever experienced the joy that comes from studying the Bible with someone? Jesus and his first ¬century disciples found great joy in the disciple-making work"
Studying the Bible with people or is it the WTS interpretation of the Bible?
Is the work the same one Jesus commanded his disciples to do? Is the same message Jesus and Apostles taught being preached?
Paragraph 10: "...we need to preach with a view to starting Bible studies"
Did people in the first century need to study to become Christians? If so, what did they study and how much study was required of them to gain salvation? Studying that salvation is possible only through faith in Jesus or that they need to belong to an organization to be saved
Paragraph 11:"By showing perseverance and adaptability in your ministry, you will experience the joy of finding individuals who will favourably respond to the Kingdom message"
Does all that effort and perseverance really matter since salvation in the end depends on God seeing and searching the hearts?
Lukewarm
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Alan Feuerbacher, Bob Wallen and "Apostasy"
by Dogpatch inhmmm.... let's see... dogz has a few nice things to share today!.
first on the agenda:.
from a km school in nov 2001 in fremont, calif., in the far right corner, is robert "bob" wallen, high level mucky muck at bethel, rated #2 in power and authoritae by barb herself!.
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LUKEWARM
Confession - that is an excellent letter and thank you for posting it!
The information is thought provoking and useful for our friends who need to think this through rather than "shut down quicker than an ATM after the third failed attempt" as JT putts it.
For anybody interested here are the references in the letter:
***truth book,chap.2p.13par.5WhyItIsWisetoExamineYourReligion***
***w863/15p.12par.7'DoNotBeQuicklyShakenFromYourReason'*** -
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2008 Service Reports 236 Lands preached......No China...No Korea
by RULES & REGULATIONS inthe 2008 service reports shows that jehovah's witnesses preached in 236 lands.
the preaching work is banned in communist countries such as china(which have over 1.3 billion people) and korea.
there might be underground preaching work but not enough to even cause a concern.. my question: how does the wts explain what will happen to all these people who will never hear their message?
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LUKEWARM
The WTS does not like its membership dwelling on the possibility that salvation is possible for people who have not been exposed to their preaching or are not JW's. So they publish things like this
***w081/15p.17par.19"RightlyDisposed"OnesAreResponding***With each passing day, the urgency of our commission to preach and make disciples becomes more pressing. Thousands of rightly disposed ones respond to our preaching every year. Yet, "the great day of Jehovah is near," meaning that those who remain in spiritual darkness are "staggering to the slaughter."-Zeph. 1:14; Prov. 24:11.
The reality is that this sense of urgency and bringing people into the organization for salvation does not make sense - something they acknowledge on their website and occasionally in their publications
http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htmDo you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?
No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.-Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.
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argument against the faithfull and discreet slave class ?
by KAYTEE inas an ex jw, i found that the faithful and discreet slave class (fdsc) was paramount in the make up of that religion.. prior to disfellowshiping anyone, the elders would question your loyalty to the (fdsc), disprove the existence of this class and the whole credibility of that religion collapses, remember this hinges on just three verses in math.24 v45-48.
imagine a scenario; the elders are confronting you with this dilemma, what would your argument be, against the authenticity of this class.. i know there are many on this site that could answer this very well, i know of two ladies who could put a convincing answer.. to hear your comments could greatly help many who frequent this site, that find themselves on the fringes of that religion.. kt.
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LUKEWARM
Mary, here are some additional questions for the CO:
(1) When did this "slave" come into being?
(2) Has this "slave" had a continuous existence for the past 19 centuries?
(3) Where was this "slave" when Russell got his start?
(4) How could Russel come to a knowledge of truth apart from this "slave?"
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Comments you will NOT hear at the Congregation Bible Study Week Starting March 9
by LUKEWARM ini have recently joined after spending over 12 months lurking reading posts and evaluating/digesting the truth about the truth.
i learned all about ray franz here and after reading both of his books feel a great deal of appreciation toward the man for what i can only describe as a labour of love on his part.. .
(romans 9:1) how, though, can we make sure that our conscience is in harmony with jehovahs holy spirit?
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LUKEWARM
Hi All,
I have recently joined after spending over 12 months lurking – reading posts and evaluating/digesting the truth about the “truth”.
I learned all about Ray Franz here and after reading both of his books feel a great deal of appreciation toward the man for what I can only describe as a labour of love on his part.
I’m grateful to Simon and to you all for the information available here as this has given me the opportunity to gain greater insight and depth to the issues at hand
More details about my situation later, but thought discussion on this week’s material might be in order. I have penned some thoughts and invite your comments please...
Lukewarm________________________________________________________________________
*** lvchap.2pp.1-11HowCanYouMaintainaGoodConscience?***
“Hold a good conscience.”—1 PETER 3:16.
Q1, 2 Why is a compass a vital instrument, and how may it be likened to the conscience? A MARINER steers his ship through the waves of a vast ocean; a hiker treks across a lonely wilderness; an aviator guides his aircraft as it soars above layers of clouds that stretch from one horizon to the other. Do you know what these individuals have in common? Each in his own way might be in big trouble without a compass—especially if other modern technology is not accessible.
2 A compass is a simple instrument, usually just a dial with a magnetic needle that points northward. When it is working properly and especially when it is used in conjunction with an accurate map, it can be a lifesaver. In some ways, it may be likened to a precious gift that Jehovah has given us—a conscience. (James 1:17) Without a conscience, we would be hopelessly lost. Used properly, it can help us find our way and keep to the right path in life. So let us consider what the conscience is and how it works. Then we can discuss these points: (1) How the conscience may be trained, (2) why we should consider the consciences of others, and (3) how a good conscience brings blessings.
If our conscience is a “precious gift that Jehovah has given us” then why does the WTS make laws and not allow JW’s to exercise it when making decisions?WHAT THECONSCIENCEISANDHOWITWORKS
Q3 What is the literal meaning of the Greek word for “conscience,” and what unique capacity in humans does it describe?3 In the Bible, the Greek word for “conscience” literally means “co-knowledge, or knowledge with oneself.” Unlike all other earthly creatures, we possess a God-given capacity to know ourselves. We can, in a sense, stand back and look at ourselves and make moral judgments. Acting as an internal witness bearer, or judge, our conscience can examine our actions, our attitudes, and our choices. It may guide us toward a good decision or warn us against a bad one. Afterward, it may comfort us for choosing well or punish us with sharp pangs for choosing poorly.
Are JW’s “guided” by their conscience or the conscience of WTS and its published material?Q 4, 5 (a) How do we know that Adam and Eve each had a conscience, and what resulted because they ignored God’s law? (b) What examples show the conscience at work in faithful men of pre-Christian times?4 This faculty was built into man and woman from the very beginning. Adam and Eve each showed that they had a conscience. We see evidence to that effect in the shame they experienced following their sin. (Genesis 3:7, 8) Sadly, a troubled conscience could do them no good by then. They had deliberately ignored God’s law. Thus they knowingly chose to become rebels, opponents of Jehovah God. As perfect humans, they knew what they were doing, and there was no turning back.
Subtle warning to JW’s to never ignore “Gods law” as interpreted for them by the WTS, otherwise they become “rebels and opponents of Jehovah God”5 Unlike Adam and Eve, many imperfect humans have heeded their conscience. For example, the faithful man Job was able to say: “On my justness I have laid hold, and I shall not let it go; my heart will not taunt me for any of my days.” *(Job 27:6) Job was truly a conscientious man. He was careful to listen to his conscience, letting it guide his actions and decisions. Thus, he could say with real satisfaction that his conscience did not taunt him, or torment him, with shame and guilt. Notice the contrast between Job and David. When David showed disrespect for Saul, Jehovah’s anointed king, “it came about afterward that David’s heart kept striking him.” (1 Samuel 24:5) Those sharp pangs of conscience surely benefited David, teaching him to avoid such disrespect thereafter.
*[Footnote]No specific word for “conscience” appears in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, the conscience is clearly in evidence in such examples as this one. The expression “heart” generally refers to the inner person. In such instances as this, it evidently points to a specific part of the inner man—his conscience. In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the Greek word rendered “conscience” occurs some 30 times
Can a JW really apply the attitude of Job here and remain in good standing?Is the Faithful and Discreet slave in the same league as “…Saul, Jehovah’s anointed king”?Q6 What shows that conscience is a gift to all mankind?
6 Does this gift of conscience belong exclusively to servants of Jehovah? Consider the apostle Paul’s inspired words: “Whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.” (Romans 2:14, 15) Even those who are completely unfamiliar with Jehovah’s laws may at times be moved by this internal witness to act in harmony with divine principles.
Interesting that non JW’s “may at times… act in harmony with divine principles”.
At which “times” do they not act in harmony with his will? Q7 Why may the conscience be wrong at times?
7 However, the conscience may in some cases be wrong. Why? Well, if a compass is placed near a metal object, it may be influenced to point in a direction other than north. And if it is used without an accurate map, the compass may be nearly worthless. Similarly, if unduly influenced by the selfish desires of our heart, our conscience may point us in the wrong direction. And if it is used without the sure guidance of God’s Word, we may be unable to distinguish between right and wrong in many important matters. Really, in order for our conscience to work properly, we need the guidance of Jehovah’s holy spirit. Paul wrote: “My conscience bears witness with me in holy spirit.” (Romans 9:1) How, though, can we make sure that our conscience is in harmony with Jehovah’s holy spirit? It is a matter of training.
“…guidance of God’s Word” or what the WTS have printed on a matter?
How does a JW’s get holy spirit or is it only reserved for the annointed?
HOW THECONSCIENCEMAYBETRAINED
Q8. (a) How may the heart affect the conscience, and what should matter most in our decisions? (b) Why is a clear conscience not always sufficient for a Christian? (See footnote.)8 How do you make a decision that is based on conscience? Some, it seems, simply look within, examine their feelings, and decide what to do. They may then say, “Well, it doesn’t bother my conscience.” The desires of the heart can be very strong, even swaying the conscience. The Bible says: “The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17:9) What our heart desires, then, should not be the most important consideration. Rather, we want to consider first what will please Jehovah God.*
*[Footnote]
The Bible shows that having a clear conscience is not always sufficient. For example, Paul said: “I am not conscious of anything against myself. Yet by this I am not proved righteous, but he that examines me is Jehovah.” (1 Corinthians 4:4) Even those who persecute Christians, as Paul once did, may do so with a clear conscience because they think that God approves of their course. It is vital that our conscience be both clear in our eyes and clean in God’s eyes.—Acts 23:1; 2 Timothy 1:3.
Q9. What is godly fear, and how may our having it affect our conscience?9 If a decision is truly based on our trained conscience, it will reflect our godly fear, not our personal desires. Consider a case in point. The faithful governor Nehemiah had a right to exact certain payments and dues from the people in Jerusalem. Yet, he held back. Why? He hated the very thought of risking Jehovah’s displeasure by oppressing God’s people. He said: “I did not do that way on account of the fear of God.” (Nehemiah 5:15) Sincere godly fear, a wholehearted fear of displeasing our heavenly Father, is essential. Such reverential fear will move us to seek direction from God’s Word when we have decisions to make.
“…seek direction from God’s Word…“ or WTS publications and its interpreted conclusions?How is the WTS showing its concern towards “risking Jehovah’s displeasure” when it continually oppresses JWs - “exacting” and imposing its Pharisaic “dues”?Q10, 11. What Bible principles bear on the matter of drinking alcoholic beverages, and how may we get God’s guidance in applying them?
10 For instance, consider the matter of alcoholic beverages. Here is a decision that many of us face in social settings, Will I drink or not? First, we need to educate ourselves. What Bible principles bear on the matter? Well, the Bible does not condemn the moderate use of alcohol. It praises Jehovah for the gift of wine. (Psalm 104:14, 15) However, the Bible condemns heavy drinking and revelries. (Luke 21:34; Romans 13:13) Moreover, it lists drunkenness among other very serious sins, such as fornication and adultery. *—1 Corinthians 6:9, 10.
*[Footnote]It should be noted that many doctors say that controlled drinking is not really possible for alcoholics; for them, “moderation” means not drinking.
Can a JW exercise their conscience and partake in “the moderate use of alcohol” at a “social” setting before attending a Christian meeting or going out in service?11 A Christian’s conscience is educated and sensitized by such principles. So when we face a decision about drinking at a gathering, we ask ourselves such questions as these: ‘What kind of gathering is being organized? Is it likely to get out of hand, becoming a revelry? What are my own tendencies? Do I long for alcohol, depend on it, use it to control my moods and behavior? Do I have the self-control needed to limit my drinking?’ As we ponder Bible principles and the questions they evoke, we do well to pray for Jehovah’s guidance. (Psalm 139:23, 24) In this way, we are inviting Jehovah to guide us with his holy spirit. We are also training our conscience to be in tune with divine principles. There is another factor, though, that should weigh in our decisions.
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A little gem from the latest WT
by dmouse in.
it never ceases to amaze me the propensity that the wbts has of seeing the straw in someone else's eye but not the rafter in their own.
this little gem is from the latest july 15th watchtower, page 22. .
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LUKEWARM
Posted below is this little GEM quote in full - If only JW's would "keep an open mind and carefully listen to what others have to say" then we would not be preaching to a deaf audience. What a difficult thing it is for them to listen and process information about the "truth".
I will definetly be using this quote with my family and friends to help them reason things through for themselves and not blindly follow...
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A gem from***w03 7/15 p. 22 Think Straight-Act Wisely***
Do Not Deceive yourself
It is also easy to deceive ourselves. In fact, it may be very difficult to give up or even question deeply cherished opinions. Why? Because we become emotionally attached to our views. Then we may deceive ourselves by rationalizing-by manufacturing reasons to justify what are really mistaken and misleading beliefs.This happened to some first-century Christians. They knew God's Word, but they did not let it govern their thinking. They ended up "deceiving [themselves] with false reasoning." (James 1:22, 26) One indication that we may have fallen prey to this kind of self-deception is if we find ourselves becoming angry when our beliefs are challenged. Instead of getting angry, it is wise to keep an open mind and carefully listen to what others have to say-even when we feel sure that our opinion is right.-Proverbs 18:17.
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-8-09 WT Study (FOLLOWER)
by blondie inreview comments will be in red.
wt material from today's wt will be in black.
quotes from other sources will be in quotes boxes.
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LUKEWARM
Hi Blondie,
It’s incredible that the WTS is everywhere in this article yet nowhere at the same time!
Thank you so much for dissecting these articles – helping people learn to cut through the fog and develop thinking and reasoning ability
“…Safeguard practical wisdom and thinking ability, and they will prove to be life to your soul.”—Prov. 3:21, 22.
Keep up the good work
Lukewarm