argument against the faithfull and discreet slave class ?

by KAYTEE 18 Replies latest jw friends

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  KAYTEE

  As an ex –jw, I found that the faithful and discreet slave class (fdsc) was paramount in the make up of that religion.

  Prior to disfellowshiping anyone, the elders would question your loyalty to the (fdsc), disprove the existence of this class and the whole credibility of that religion collapses, remember this hinges on just three verses in Math.24 v45-48

  Imagine a scenario; the elders are confronting you with this dilemma, what would your argument be, against the authenticity of this class.

  I know there are many on this site that could answer this very well, I know of two ladies who could put a convincing answer.

  To hear your comments could GREATLY help many who frequent this site, that find themselves on the fringes of that religion.

  KT
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  neverendingjourney

  Everything you need is right here:

  http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/slave.htm
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  quietlyleaving

  I think I'd dig out the verses from the bible itself and go over them with the elders and pause at the appropriate places. I've used this with a JW but they ignored me.
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  Kosonen

  At my judicial commitee, I had to explain my point of view to Matthew 24:45.

  I just said them, you know in Matthew 24:45 you have the question Who really is the faithful and discreet slave? It is not a statment that the leaders of the Watchtower-society is a faithful and discreet slave. It is just a question. Then the context, the verse prior says that you would not know when the Son of man arrives, so why do the leaders of the Watchtower claim that he arrived in 1918?

  Also the verse 47 says when the Son of man arrives, He will appoint him over all his belongings. Does this not happen when Jesus' slaves get the Heavenly Kingdom? But the Watchtower claims that this has already happend, and that this does not refer to the Heavenly Kingdom. But that can't be the true.

  The elders had nothing to say. So I asked them, please, let's write together a letter to GB and tell them the right understanding. But they refused. I asked why? One of them said: We do not want the truth to come through you to all Jehovah's witnesses. An other said the truth is not so important, it can wait, till Jehovah gives it through the Watchtower-pages.

  But you can use some more arguments if they will listen, for example:

  (All the quotes from the New World Translation)

  Isaiah 5:21 says:

  21 Woe to those wise in their own eyes and discreet even in front of their own faces!

  You see, the leaders of the Watchtower make a big misstake boasting and claiming to be faithful and discreet. Their approving themselves has no value. They should wait when the Son of man comes and see who will be approved as faithful and discreet. It is an individual question.

  Also Jesus told how his disciples should regard themselves. Luke 17:10: So YOU , also, when YOU have done all the things assigned to YOU , say, ‘We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.’”

  You see how they have tried to missinterprete the Scriptures in their behalf!

  Here is Matthew 24:45 with its context:

  43 “But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming. 45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU , He will appoint him over all his belongings. 48 “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.
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  Anti-Christ

  Simple. Ask them who decided that the Bible is from God? Who actually wrote the bible ( with proof ) and who put it all together. What are the manuscript that were used in the translation of the bible and the age of these manuscript, of course all of their answers must be back up with proof.
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  passwordprotected

  Another angle to consider is if the food the FDS was supplying in 1914 was so good, where is it now? And why was it in 1914 that the group who eventually became the FDS were actively preaching that Christ had in fact returned in 1874?

  Add this to the mix; in 1914 the WTS were teaching that Russell was the faithful and discreet slave. They believed he's already been chosen. Obviously this was a falsehood on their part. Why would Christ choose a group who were preaching falsehoods?

  This also needs to be considered;

  Luke 12:35 “Let YOUR loins be girded and YOUR lamps be burning, 36 and YOU yourselves be like men waiting for their master when he returns from the marriage, so that at his arriving and knocking they may at once open to him. 37 Happy are those slaves whom the master on arriving finds watching! Truly I say to YOU , He will gird himself and make them recline at the table and will come alongside and minister to them. 38 And if he arrives in the second watch, even if in the third, and finds them thus, happy are they! 39 But know this, that if the householder had known at what hour the thief would come, he would have kept watching and not have let his house be broken into. 40 Y OU also, keep ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think likely the Son of man is coming.”

  41 Then Peter said: “Lord, are you saying this illustration to us or also to all?” 42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? 43 Happy is that slave, if his master on arriving finds him doing so! 44 I tell YOU truthfully, He will appoint him over all his belongings.

  Jesus made it clear that he would be looking for people who were girded and ready to open the door to him. How could the WTS have met that criteria if they believed he'd actually knocked on the door 40 years previously?

  It is scripturally impossible to know when Jesus will return and identify the FDS.

  To summarise;

  1. Jesus asked a rhetorical question "who really is the faithful and discreet slave"
  2. The answer would be provided at his return
  3. The context of Matthew 24 and Luke 12 show that the master's return would not be known ahead of time

  Side point;

  Many JWs, in my experience, confuse the FDS with the Holy Spirit. You'll hear them say things like, "Jesus promised a faithful and discreet slave to teach us things". In reality, Jesus promised a Helper, The Holy Spirit, who would lead Christians into truth.
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  Kosonen

  Hi passwordprotected,

  I really liked your comment!

  Kosonen,
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  Mary

  To me, the most glaring problem with this teaching is the double-speak that they've put out in their literature. On the one hand, they say:

  "When Jesus' presence began in 1914, did he find a group of anointed Christians who were faithfully dispensing food at the proper time? He certainly did. This group could be clearly identified because of the fine fruitage that it was producing. History since then has proved this identification to be correct."---Watchtower March 1, 2004 p. 11 par. 16

  Yet by their own admission, in 1918, they were guilty of having:

  "long association with Christian apostasy. They had many practices, characteristics and beliefs similar to the weedlike sects of Christendom."----Watchtower July 15, 1960 pp. 435-436 par. 18

  [The Organization] sold themselves because of wrong practices and came into bondage to the world empire of false religion.....an outstanding instance of this occurred during World War I of 1914-1918.----Watchtower November 15, 1980 p. 25-26

  So after 40 years of false date setting, of promoting Pyramidology and teaching a host of "truths" that were eventually abandoned, of becoming so ‘spiritually unclean' that they were sent into ‘captivity', we are being asked to believe that in 1919, Jesus said to them "well done good and faithful servant. You were faithful over a few things, I will appoint you over many things."

  As Ron Frye said: "That's like going to a businessman who, through his own foolishness got himself into financial difficulty and lost a good deal of your money, having to declare bankruptcy, and your then saying to this businessman, "Well done! You lost a small fortune of mine, so now I am going to entrust my whole fortune into your hands."
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  WTWizard

  What about that famous scripture that tells us not to put our trust in nobles? I would say that those making up the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger class are "nobles" in this sense, and thus should not be trusted.

  I would also add that the Bible gets all its authority from the Bible itself, and that is not valid. But, anything like that will have you in the back room in no time--they do not like people that attack the whole "original sin" scam or the validity of the Bible's authority.
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  Meeting Junkie No More

  Mary, that is one hell of a good answer - got to remember that one!