Thanks for your comments Blondie - You do such a good job each week!
P9.He further showed that God's Law needed to be applied with reasonableness and mercy. (Matt. 23:23)
Are reasonableness and mercy key considerations for jw's or is it more important to apply 'theocratic' WTS law and procedure?
P13. "During his earthly ministry, Jesus did this by exposing false religious traditions and preaching the good news of the Kingdom. (Matt. 15:3; Luke 8:1) He thus delivered from spiritual bondage Jews who became his disciples.
How many in jw land are in bondage due to Brooklyn's false religious traditions and man made laws?
LUKEWARM
JoinedPosts by LUKEWARM
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-29-09 WT Study (APPROVED SERVANT)
by blondie in*** w07 3/1 p. 29 par.
*** w07 4/1 p. 23 par.
*** w07 6/1 p. 29 par.
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LUKEWARM
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-22-09 WT Study (UNDESERVED)
by blondie inministering to one another.
how do we "use it in ministering to one another"?
"use it in ministering"-how?
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LUKEWARM
Hi Blondie,
Those balanced 1976 articles were written by Ray Franz. He says about them in his Christian freedom book:
"Back in 1976, as a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, I was assigned to prepare material on the subject of 'sacred service' and the resulting Watchtower articles were titles 'Appreciating the Treasure of Sacred Service' and 'Rendering Sacred Service Night and Day'. The material was based largely on a discussion of the Greek term latreuo, translated 'to render sacred service' in the New World Translation. Both articles presented scriptural evidence that sacred serviced to God is not something restricted to particular activities such as preaching or meeting attendance, something engaged in during certain separate, special times in certain special places or ways, but is all-embracing, something to be lived, service that takes in all of life. It showed that the scriptures speak of 'sacrifices to God' that include, not only 'fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name,' but also the 'doing of good and sharing of things with others, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased'... Many found this information refreshing, expressing that it brought greater meaning to their lives and made them feel that things other than just 'field service' and meeting attendance counted. Not all were pleased, however. After a time, some of the travelling Overseers, whose main work was (and is) to push 'field service,' complained to the Service Department that the outlook presented undercut their promotion of such activity. By placing other features of life on an equality with 'field service,' it diminished the importance of what they were doing and took some of the power out of their urgings for 'more hours in the field.' I personally know of no others who expressed objections...In 1980, shortly after my resignation from the Governing Body, another set of articles appeared in the August 15 issue of the Watchtower designed to return to the application of 'sacred service' only to such things as field service and meeting attendance...".
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Comments you will NOT hear at the Congregation Bible Study Week Starting March 23
by LUKEWARM in(b) how can we choose associates who will influence us for the good?.
does god love non jw's?.
6 jehovah loves those who love jesus, his only-begotten son.
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LUKEWARM
This chapter is divided up into three parts to be covered over 3 weeks - here are my comments for this week and please add yours!
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LOVE THOSE WHOM GOD LOVES
"He that is walking with wise persons will become wise."-PROVERBS 13:20.
Q1-3. (a) What inescapable truth does the Bible express? (b) How can we choose associates who will influence us for the good?IN A way, people are like sponges; they tend to absorb whatever surrounds them. It is all too easy to adopt-even unwittingly-the attitudes, standards, and personality traits of those with whom we have close association.
2 The Bible expresses an inescapable truth when it says: "He that is walking with wise persons will become wise, but he that is having dealings with the stupid ones will fare badly." (Proverbs 13:20) This proverb speaks about more than casual contact. The expression "walking with" suggests ongoing association. Commenting on this verse, one Bible reference work says: "To walk with a person implies love and attachment." Would you not agree that we tend to imitate those we love? Indeed, because we attach ourselves emotionally to those we love, they can have a molding effect on us-for good or for bad.
Why don't they state what this "Bible reference work" is?
Is it because they are using a commentary of the METHODIST EPISCOPAL CHURCH??
What arrogance and hypocrisy to be quoting from "Babylon the Great"3 To remain in God's love, it is vital that we seek out associates who will influence us for the good. How can we do that? Put simply, we can do so by loving those whom God loves, making his friends our friends. Think about it. What better associates could we choose than those who have the qualities that Jehovah looks for in his friends? Let us, then, examine the kind of people who are loved by God. With Jehovah's viewpoint clearly in mind, we will be better equipped to choose wholesome associates.
Are "associates who will influence us for the good" only JW's?
Does God love non JW's?
THOSEWHOMGODLOVES Q4. Why does Jehovah have the right to be particular about his friends, and why did Jehovah refer to Abraham as "my friend"?
4 When it comes to friendship, Jehovah is particular. Does he not have the right to be? After all, he is the Sovereign Lord of the universe, and friendship with him is the greatest of all privileges. Whom, then, does he choose as his friends? Jehovah draws close to those who trust in him and put their full faith in him. Consider, for example, the patriarch Abraham, a man known for his outstanding faith. It is hard to imagine a greater test of faith for a human father than to be asked to offer up his son as a sacrifice. Yet, Abraham "as good as offered up Isaac," having full faith "that God was able to raise him up even from the dead." (Hebrews 11:17-19) Because Abraham displayed such faith and obedience, Jehovah affectionately referred to him as "my friend."-Isaiah 41:8; James 2:21-23.
Does God draw close to people who believe and trust in him and who are not associated with the Brooklyn Organization?
Q5. How does Jehovah view those who loyally obey him?
5 Jehovah places a high value on loyal obedience. He loves those who are willing to put loyalty to him above all else. (2 Samuel 22:26) As we saw in Chapter 1 of this publication, Jehovah finds great pleasure in those who choose to obey him out of love. "His intimacy," says Proverbs 3:32, "is with the upright ones." Those who loyally meet God's requirements receive a gracious invitation from Jehovah: They can be guests in his "tent"-welcomed to worship him and granted free access to him in prayer.-Psalm 15:1-5.
Is obedience and loyalty to God or the WTS required?Can we worship God without the direction Brooklyn provides?
Q6. How can we show that we love Jesus, and how does Jehovah feel about those who love his Son?
6 Jehovah loves those who love Jesus, his only-begotten Son. Jesus said: "If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make our abode with him." (John 14:23) How can we show our love for Jesus? Surely by observing his commandments, including the commission to preach the good news and make disciples. (Matthew 28:19, 20; John 14:15, 21) We also show our love for Jesus when we "follow his steps closely," imitating him in word and deed to the best of our ability as imperfect humans. (1 Peter 2:21) Jehovah's heart is touched by the efforts of those whose love for his Son moves them to pursue a Christlike course.
So if JW's observe Jesus words, will Jesus and his father "come to...and make..."their "...abode with..." them?Here is a perfect opportunity to elaborate on the many things Jesus taught but the WTS choose to emphasise "preach the good news and make disciples" and then generalise with "follow his steps closely".
Why just single out one thing? Why are they so obsessed by "commission to preach the good news and make disciples" (when they don't even preach the same good news Jesus taught) and not mention other things Jesus taught like charity? Q7. Why is it wise to befriend Jehovah's friends?
7 Faith, loyalty, obedience, and love for Jesus and his ways-these are among the qualities that Jehovah looks for in His friends. Each of us does well to ask himself: 'Are such qualities and ways evident in my close associates? Have I made Jehovah's friends my friends?' It is wise to do so. Individuals who cultivate godly qualities and preach the Kingdom good news with zeal can have a positive effect on us, influencing us to live up to our determination to please God.-See the box "What Is a Good Friend?" on page 29.Are "Jehovah's friends" only JW's?
Is it ok to be friends with those who don't "preach the Kingdom good news with zeal"?WHATISAGOODFRIEND?Principle: "A true companion is loving all the time, and is a brother that is born for when there is distress."-Proverbs 17:17.
Somequestionstoaskyourself? Are my friends also friends of Jehovah and Jesus?-John 15:14, 16; James 2:23.
? Do my friends help me to develop good habits?-1 Corinthians 15:33.
? Do my friends love me enough to correct me if necessary?-Psalm 141:5; Proverbs 27:6.
? What do my speech and actions reveal about the type of friend I am to others?-Proverbs 12:18; 18:24; 1 John 3:16-18. -
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In Search of Christian Freedom
by berylblue infranz stated something in this mind-blowing book which was definitely true for me.. he stated (this is a poor paraphrase) that very early on during a "study", witnesses can easily show what's in the bible regarding god's name, the condition of the dead, living on paradise earth, etc.
once these are proven to a person's satisfaction, when the study moves on to more complicated matters, it is just easier to accept what isn't understood on the basis that so far, everything has seemed true.
by now, there is an emotional investment -and everything up until now seemed fine, so.....................................let's swallow it all, and what is too difficult to swallow comfortably (blood?
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LUKEWARM
For any lurkers out there, you need to read this book to really see how far Brooklyn has deviated from the Bible...
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-22-09 WT Study (UNDESERVED)
by blondie inministering to one another.
how do we "use it in ministering to one another"?
"use it in ministering"-how?
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LUKEWARM
Great comments Blondie! They pay lip service to charity and helping others but we all know Brooklyn values reporting time in the field service above any other human kindness.
I was sitting through this today and heard comments "the paragraph says" "the brothers are telling us" "the point the paragraph is making is" repeated over and over again...
Ray Franz in his "Christian freedom" book sums it up nicely on P.460:
"I found it hard to understand how the Apostles Peter, Paul and John, and the disciples James and Jude, could write entire letters to congregations and never say anything stressing the need for the readers of those letters to get out and go from door to door...about putting in more hours in the 'field service'...The letters of the Apostles seemed deficient according to the viewpoint that had been developed in me"
But what does it matter what the Bible says because it's been superseded by "The Watchtower" and their unreasonable obsession with the filed ministry! -
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Is the WTS About to Massage the Numbers in a huge Way?
by dismayed inobviously with no end-time date being out there right now, the wt to motivate members.
stagnation is the word that comes up frequently on the board here, and a currently active member, i see it permeating the dub attitude.
so this week's study article was interesting in that it potentially expands the area where dubs can count their time.
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LUKEWARM
Hi Dismayed,
Love your comment:
"I cant wait to unload that one in the next elders meeting when some over righteous elder questions someone's hours. "Well, now that the Branch doesn't publish the hourly average, it must not really be that important"
That is Gold - Absolute Gold!
Lukewarm
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Repetition 101
by AllTimeJeff in(i am sending this to freeminds as my latest blog, but it isn't up yet.
read my stuff here , but by all means, go to www.freeminds.org it has saved me and a ton of other people from jw hell).
sometimes, its hard to know what to write about when it comes to jehovahs witnesses.
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LUKEWARM
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Absolutely spot on!
"...intense repetition (or as most normal people like to call it, indoctrination) to make their followers the soulless, thoughtless, uncomfortable cult followers that they continue to be. Keep 'em busy, and they keep 'em
Its amazing the power a group can gain by simply getting their members to not think, or critically analyze what their beliefs."
Well said Jeff and thank you for posting this here!
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We Don't Want to Know Why You're Leaving
by passwordprotected inour exit from the watch tower society was fairly speedy.
within about 3 months, we'd ceased attending meetings and lost all of our friends (apart from hobo ken and his wife).. what was shocking - and only confirmed that we were right to leave - was how our decision was met by our so-called friends.. we were leaving behind people whom we'd enjoyed friendship for over 20 years.
we were leaving behind friends who were closer to us than our own families were.
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LUKEWARM
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Hi PasswordHow sad that nobody asked any questions - especially close friends of 20 years!
Did you get a chance to weave things about your reservations into your conversations with them before you left and if so what was their response? Do they agree with everything the WTS teaches?
Have you tried SMS-ing them since?
I am slowly chiselling away at my friends - it's frustrating as progress is so slow and they need to know so much which can only be given to them in small doses otherwise their brain shuts down...
Lukewarm
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PDF w/174 WBTS scans comparing lies and revisions of JW "truth"...limited time only!!!
by middleman inhello, here's a pdf that was put together comparing many of the lies within the society's publications.
i will have the link up for a limited time and afterwards it will be available by request-send me an email and leave yours.
this is part one (141 pages) of two (perhaps a third) in the series being made.
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LUKEWARM
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Thank you, thank you, and thank you!!!
This looks great and will be a useful reference to help our friends see the issues
Best wishes and looking forward to your completed work!!
Lukewarm
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Comments you will NOT hear at the Congregation Bible Study Week Starting March 16
by LUKEWARM inhere is this weeks lesson - your comments please.... .
***lvchap.2pp.19-24how canyoumaintainagoodconscience?***.
whyconsidertheconsciencesofothers?.
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LUKEWARM
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Here is this weeks lesson - your comments please...
***lvchap.2pp.19-24How CanYouMaintainaGoodConscience?***
WHYCONSIDERTHECONSCIENCESOFOTHERS?
Q12, 13. What are some reasons why Christian consciences differ, and how should we deal with such differences? 12 You may find yourself surprised at times by the degree to which Christian consciences differ. One person finds a practice or custom objectionable; another enjoys it and sees no basis for condemning it. In the matter of social drinking, for example, one finds delight in taking a drink with a few friends as they relax together for an evening; another is troubled by the practice. Why are there such differences, and how should they affect our decisions?
Is allowance made for individual conscience? Are JW's free to follow their own conscience?13 People differ for many reasons. Backgrounds vary greatly. Some, for instance, are acutely aware of a weakness that they have struggled with in the past-perhaps not always successfully. (1 Kings 8:38, 39) When it comes to alcohol, such individuals would likely feel particularly sensitive. If such a person comes to your home for a visit, his conscience may rightly move him to refuse the offer of a drink. Will you be offended? Will you insist? No. Whether you know his reasons or not-reasons that he may choose to keep private in this setting-brotherly love will move you to be considerate.
OT example
Q 14, 15. Over what issue did the consciences of those in the first-century congregation differ, and what did Paul recommend? 14 The apostle Paul saw that consciences often varied widely among Christians in the first century. Back then, some Christians were troubled about certain foods that had been sacrificed to idols. (1 Corinthians 10:25) Paul's conscience did not object to such foods that were subsequently sold at markets. To him, idols were nothing; idols could never own food that originated with Jehovah and belonged to Him anyway. Yet, Paul understood that others did not share his view of this matter. Some might have been deeply involved with idolatry before becoming Christians. To them, anything even formerly connected with idolatry was offensive. The solution?
So Paul ate meat sacrificed to idols in good conscience. Can you imagine a JW buying and consuming Easter eggs and admitting before other JW's that they do so in good conscience?WTS adding to the Bible again here with the "Some might" sentence...
15 Paul said: "We, though, who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those not strong, and not to be pleasing ourselves. For even the Christ did not please himself." (Romans 15:1, 3) Paul reasoned that we should put the needs of our brothers ahead of our own, just as Christ did. In a related discussion, Paul said that he would rather not eat meat at all than stumble a precious sheep for whom Christ had given his life.-1 Corinthians 8:13; 10:23, 24, 31-33.
Here is the guilt trip being placed on any liberal JW conscience, that of stumbling others and not pleasing ourselves. In other words, the exercise of personal conscience is viewed as something needing to be organizationally controlled.Q16. Why should those with a more restrictive conscience avoid judging those whose conscience differs from theirs? 16 On the other hand, those with a more restrictive conscience should not be critical of others, insisting that all view matters of conscience just as they do. (Romans 14:10) Really, the conscience is best used as an internal judge, not as a license to judge others. Remember Jesus' words: "Stop judging that you may not be judged." (Matthew 7:1) All in the congregation want to avoid making an issue of personal matters of conscience. Instead, we seek ways to promote love and unity, building one another up, not tearing one another down.-Romans 14:19.
How arrogant for the WTS to counsel others to apply Jesus words to "Stop judging that you may not be judged" when they do so all the time.
They write "avoid making an issue of personal matters of conscience" when they pressure the membership to engage in organizational activities and to measure up to nothing but human standards with little consideration for the individual conscience. Hypocrites!HOW A GOOD CONSCIENCEBRINGSBLESSINGS
Q17. What has happened to the consciences of many today? 17 The apostle Peter wrote: "Hold a good conscience." (1 Peter 3:16) A conscience that is clean in the sight of Jehovah God is a tremendous blessing. It is not like the consciences of so many today. Paul described those who are "marked in their conscience as with a branding iron." (1 Timothy 4:2) A branding iron sears the flesh, leaving it scarred and insensitive. Many have a conscience that is, in effect, dead-so scarred and insensitive that it no longer sends out warnings, protests, or pangs of shame or guilt over wrongdoing. "Good riddance," many today seem to say to such feelings as guilt.
A subconscious warning to the obedient JW to question their conscience - make sure its clean in the sight of God as defined by the WTS
Q 18, 19. (a) Feelings of guilt or shame may have what value? (b) What can we do if our conscience continues to punish us for past sins for which we have already repented? 18 In truth, feelings of guilt can be the conscience's way of telling us that we have done wrong. When such feelings move a sinner to repent, even the worst of sins may be forgiven. King David, for example, became guilty of grave wrongdoing but was forgiven largely because of his sincere repentance. His hatred of his wrong course and his determination to obey Jehovah's laws from then on led him to see firsthand that Jehovah is "good and ready to forgive." (Psalm 51:1-19; 86:5) What, though, if intense feelings of guilt and shame persist after we have repented and have received forgiveness?
Did David need to confess his sins to elders and did they need to discern his repentance?19 Sometimes the conscience can be overly punitive, beating a sinner with guilt long after such feelings stop serving any useful purpose. In such cases, we may need to assure the self-condemning heart that Jehovah is greater than all human feelings. We need to believe in and accept his love and forgiveness, just as we encourage others to do. (1 John 3:19, 20) On the other hand, a cleansed conscience brings inner peace, serenity, and a profound joy that is rarely found in this world. Many who were once involved in serious sin have experienced this marvelous relief and are able today to hold a good conscience as they serve Jehovah God.-1 Corinthians 6:11.
Only by allowing the WTS - a human religious authority - to deciding matters which should rest with the individuals conscience, can the JW's experience "...a profound joy that is rarely found in this world"
Q20, 21. (a) What is this publication designed to help you to do? (b) As Christians, we enjoy what freedom, yet how should we use it? 20 This book is designed to help you find that joy, to hold a good conscience throughout the rest of these troubled last days of Satan's system of things. Of course, it cannot cover all of the Bible's laws and principles that you need to think about and apply in the situations that arise day by day. Furthermore, do not expect simple, black-and-white rules on matters of conscience. The purpose of this book is to help you educate and sensitize your conscience by studying how to apply God's Word in your daily life. Unlike the Mosaic Law, "the law of the Christ" invites its adherents to live more by conscience and principle than by written rules. (Galatians 6:2) Jehovah thus entrusts Christians with extraordinary freedom. However, his Word reminds us never to use that freedom as "a blind for badness." (1 Peter 2:16) Rather, such freedom affords us a marvellous opportunity to express our love for Jehovah.
So the purpose of the publication is to allow the WTS to "help...educate and sensitize your conscience by studying how to apply God's Word in your daily life." In other words the WTS expects JW's to relinquish to them their God given right to exercise their own conscience to do their own thinking and to arrive at conclusions that are truly their own
They pay lip service to the Bibles teaching that "the law of the Christ" involves living by "conscience and principle than by written rules" as they have imposed their views on an individual's conscience - organizational laws dictate to peoples conscience thereby superseding the bibleWonder how much "freedom" the JW's really feel as the WTS lord it over their consciences
21 By prayerfully considering how best to live by Bible principles and then putting your decisions to work, you will continue a vital process that began when you first came to know Jehovah. Your "perceptive powers" will be trained "through use." (Hebrews 5:14) Your Bible-trained conscience will be a blessing to you every day of your life. Like the compass that guides the traveller, your conscience will help you to make decisions that please your heavenly Father. This is a sure way to keep yourself in God's love.
By mortgaging their conscience to WTS, the JW's end up with a "Bible-trained conscience"
Lukewarm