Hey Jam,
Did you tell them the $4.00 was just "petty gambling solely for entertainment"- after all their instruction book tells them they should not get involved with that as it is NOT a sin of greed...30. Greed-gambling, extortion: (I Cor. 5:10,11; 6:10; 1 Tim. 3:8; it-1 pp. 789, 1005-1006; w891/15 p. 22) Christians should avoid gambling in all its various forms, including lotteries. (Isa. 65:11; g02 7/22 pp. 4-8; w89 7/15 p. 30; g82 7/8 pp. 25-27; g8111/22 p. 27) If a person makes a practice of gambling and after repeated counsel unrepentantly pursues a course of greediness, judicial action would be appropriate.-w80 9/1 pp. 29-30; w67 p. 356.
31. An individual continuing in employment directly involved with gambling or employment making him a clear accomplice or promoter of gambling would be subject to judicial action, usually after being allowed time, perhaps up to six months, to make the needed adjustments. (w95 5/15 p. 23 par. 11; km 9/76 pp. 3-6) In questionable cases it is best to consult with the branch office.
32. If a business gives out prizes or prize money to winners of a con test or to potential customers for advertising, accepting the gift is an individual's decision to make. However, a person needs to be careful that accepting such a prize does not stir up greed. (Rom. 14:21; 1 Cor. 10:31-33; g7S 7/8 p. 28; w73 p. 127) The elders do well not to involve themselves in what individuals do with regard to petty gambling solely for entertainment. They may need to give counsel if this becomes a cause of stumbling for others or affects the spirituality of the individual or the congregation.-w02 11/1 p. 3l.
LUKEWARM
JoinedPosts by LUKEWARM
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12
Do you remerber your first shepherding call from the Gestapo
by jam ina jw about a year, still trying to get a handle on things, walk.
the walk and talk the talk.
the wife was moving ahead.
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LUKEWARM
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JWs pronounce the popular version of Gods name
by Alfred ingrowing up jw, the elders in my congo never wasted an opportunity to remind the youth in my congo that we should always endeavor to do what is correct in gods eyes, not what the world considers to be popular.
this would cover just about every subject (clothing, music, sports, entertainment, etc.)..
however, when it comes to the one thing that should probably matter the most to all jay dubs (correctly pronouncing gods name), popularity takes precedence over correctness.
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LUKEWARM
What upsets me about this, is that the Governing Body, aka The Faithful and Discreet Slave, is so arrogant to have based the lives of millions of people on the 'fact' that they alone speak for Jehovah, that Jehovah is using them as his organization and yet they don't even know his name! http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/34547/1/A-classic-case-of-WT-dishonesty
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How much TIME do you have left? 3900 Saturday Mornings & the Story of 1,000 Marbles
by LUKEWARM inhere is a very powerful story that really makes you think.. .
it reminds me to enjoy every moment and not waste time on things that do not matter - like the useless jw treadmill of activity.. .
1,000 marbles.
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LUKEWARM
Here is a very powerful story that really makes you think.
It reminds me to enjoy every moment and not waste time on things that do not matter - like the useless JW treadmill of activity.
It's a story of a man who had developed a philosophy about the priorities of life. He called it his "Thousand Marbles" theory.
Hope you like it
Lukewarm
1,000 Marbles
"A Little Something about Precious Time"
Written by Jeffrey Davis © 1999 All Rights Reserved
"The older I get, the more I enjoy Saturday mornings. Perhaps it's the quiet solitude that comes with being the first to rise, or maybe it's the unbounded joy of not having to be at work. Either way, the first few hours of a Saturday morning are most enjoyable.
A few weeks ago, I was shuffling toward the basement shack with a steaming cup of coffee in one hand and the morning paper in the other. What began as a typical Saturday morning, turned into one of those lessons that life seems to hand you from time to time. Let me tell you about it...
I turned the dial up into the phone portion of the band on my ham radio in order to listen to a Saturday morning swap net. Along the way, I came across an older sounding chap, with a tremendous signal and a golden voice. You know the kind, he sounded like he should be in the broadcasting business. He was telling whoever he was talking with something about "a thousand marbles".
I was intrigued and stopped to listen to what he had to say. "Well, Tom, it sure sounds like you're busy with your job. I'm sure they pay you well but it's a shame you have to be away from home and your family so much. Hard to believe a young fellow should have to work sixty or seventy hours a week to make ends meet. Too bad you missed your daughter's dance recital."
He continued, "Let me tell you something Tom, something that has helped me keep a good perspective on my own priorities." And that's when he began to explain his theory of a "thousand marbles."
"You see, I sat down one day and did a little arithmetic. The average person lives about seventy-five years. I know, some live more and some live less, but on average, folks live about seventy-five years." "Now then, I multiplied 75 times 52 and I came up with 3900 which is the number of Saturdays that the average person has in their entire lifetime.
Now stick with me Tom, I'm getting to the important part."
"It took me until I was fifty-five years old to think about all this in any detail", he went on, "and by that time I had lived through over twenty-eight hundred Saturdays. I got to thinking that if I lived to be seventy-five, I only had about a thousand of them left to enjoy."
"So I went to a toy store and bought every single marble they had. I ended up having to visit three toy stores to round-up 1000 marbles. I took them home and put them inside of a large, clear plastic container right here in the shack next to my gear. Every Saturday since then, I have taken one marble out and thrown it away."
"I found that by watching the marbles diminish, I focused more on the really important things in life. There is nothing like watching your time here on this earth run out to help get your priorities straight."
"Now let me tell you one last thing before I sign-off with you and take my lovely wife out for breakfast. This morning, I took the very last marble out of the container. I figure if I make it until next Saturday then I have been given a little extra time. And the one thing we can all use is a little more time."
"It was nice to meet you Tom, I hope you spend more time with your family, and I hope to meet you again here on the band.
73 Old Man, this is K9NZQ, clear and going QRT, good morning!" You could have heard a pin drop on the band when this fellow signed off. I guess he gave us all a lot to think about. I had planned to work on the antenna that morning, and then I was going to meet up with a few hams to work on the next club newsletter. Instead, I went upstairs and woke my wife up with a kiss. "C'mon honey, I'm taking you and the kids to breakfast."
"What brought this on?" she asked with a smile.
"Oh, nothing special, it's just been a long time since we spent a Saturday together with the kids. Hey, can we stop at a toy store while we're out? I need to buy some marbles.".
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Amazing transformation- Slave to Master
by stuckinamovement ini was looking at another thread and began thinking..... isn't it amazing that the "slave" has put itself in the place of the "master" ?
anyway you look at it, the organization has taken matt.
24:45-47 and twisted it beyond recognition.. witnesses have become slaves of the "slave class" and not of the master.
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LUKEWARM
What kind of slave demands obedience?
SIAM - You describe them perfectly as:
Self Serving Arrogant Assholes
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"Look it wasn't a global flood.."
by Qcmbr ini've heard the statement from bible apologists so many times that the global flood story of genesis was not a global flood but was probably a local flood.
this seems problematic.. this directly disagrees with the bible.
everywhere the bible internally references a global flood of worldwide scale (i'll throw in matthew 24:39 as a nt example and genesis 6:17 as a ot example.
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LUKEWARM
People that argue a local flood are denying the Bible's account...
Why is it that phrases such as "...the flood covered the whole earth..." need to be literal, when there are numerous examples in the Bible where that phrase has to be understood in a relative sense?
Here is an excerpt from a letter to the WTS:
We well know how common it was for Bible writers to describe events from their geographic standpoint, both in the Greek and in the Hebrew scriptures.
At Colossians 1:23 Paul speaks of "that good news which YOU heard, and which was preached in all creation that is under heaven." It is acknowledged in all our publications that since this was written in c.60-61 C.E., Paul meant 'all creation under heaven' known to him at that time. Logically so, since at that time Christianity had by no means reached the Americas, the Far East, Southern Africa or Australasia.
The words at Romans 10:18, "..to the extremities of the inhabited earth...", must of course also be understood in the relative sense.
At Acts 2:5 we read "...there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, reverent men, from every nation of those under heaven." This was written in c.61 C.E. Here too, 'every nation under heaven' cannot be literal, since there were no South American, Chinese or Australian proselytes in Jerusalem at that time. Once again, 'every nation under heaven' is to be understood as a relative phrase.
At Isaiah 13:5 [concerning the Babylonians] we read that "They are coming from the land far away, from the extremity of the heavens." On a global scale, the Babylonians were not far away, they were literally next door to the Israelites! Yet, relative to the known earth of that time, they were "from the extremity of the heavens".
At Genesis 41:57 people from "all the earth" came to buy food from Joseph "because the famine had a strong grip on all the earth." Does this mean Aborigines, South American Indians and Japanese peasants also came to buy food? Of course not, that would be absurd. The famine was limited to Egypt and to the lands immediately around Egypt, like Palestine (Ge.41:54). Yet again we see how "all the earth" does not mean the entire planet, but is to be understood as the lands immediately around the Bible writer.
I'm sure you have anticipated what my primary question is.
Based on the preceding examples, why is it we understand the Flood to be global and not local? Why is it that phrases such as "...the flood covered the whole earth..." need to be literal, when there are numerous examples in the Bible where that phrase has to be understood in a relative sense?
For what reason are the words regarding "all the earth" at Genesis 6-8 to be understood differently from the words at Colossians 1:23, Romans 10:18, Acts 2:5, Isaiah 13:5, Genesis 41:57 and other like verses?
It says in the Creation book p25, par2: "When examining the Genesis account, it is helpful to keep in mind that it approaches matters from the standpoint of people on earth. So it describes events as they would have been seen by human observers". I know those words were written with the Genesis creation account in mind, but for what reason can they not apply to the Flood account?
Surely a huge local flood would also prompt expressions such as: "...I am bringing...waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens. Everything that is in the earth will expire." (Ge.6:17)?
Why would Jehovah expect Noah to understand those words to mean the entire globe and its life, when Noah did not even know the entire globe existed? All that existed to Noah was the visible land and its indigenous wildlife; to him that was "the earth".
In all earnestness, do you not agree that words such as the ones at Genesis 6:13, 19 and 7:4, 10, 19, 20, 21, 23 can also be understood as pertaining to a local flood?
My question then brothers is just this: if the possibility exists that the words at Genesis 6-8 can apply to a local occurrence, why do we say the Flood must have been global?________________________________And this:
The book of Genesis states that the flood was earth wide. The Hebrew word for 'earth' is 'erets'. Other occurrences of erets include:
Exodus 9:33: this verse states that the "rain did not pour down on the earth". Here, the word earth must be understood to mean only in the area of Egypt.
2 Chronicles 36:23: here, Cyrus' empire is said to include "all the kingdoms of the earth". But surely this scripture is not meant to include empires in the Far East, Africa or in the Americas.
At other times, the word erets is not even translated as earth, making it even more obvious that the word does not necessarily imply the entire physical globe. Examples of this include:
Genesis 12:1. That reads: "Go your way out of your country...to the country that I shall show you".
Genesis 19:31: here Lot's daughter's state that there is "not a man in the land (earth, King James version) to have relations with us". Obviously, they are not referring to the entire physical globe, only the general area in which they live.
And Genesis 20:1 states "Abraham journeyed from there to the land of the Negeb".
Thus, it appears as though the word erets can be translated as earth, land or country..
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What's the dubs' most ridiculous teaching?
by ozziepost inok, i promised!
so's not to take the other thread off topic, let's start on this here.. so: what's the dubs' most ridiculous teaching?.
i'll start.the ships of kittim.. .
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LUKEWARM
Had a good laugh reading this - cannot believe I once believed these cartoonish beliefs
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The letter I promised earlier from the Society on Blood
by ldrnomo inthere are four different links on sendspace.com .
each link is one of the pages of the letter here are the links.
page 1 http://www.sendspace.com/file/03vk19.
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LUKEWARM
Hi ldrnomo,
Thanks fo allowing the WTS response to be posted on Marvins site - are you able to also post your letter to them?
Even a copy and paste of the text will be fine...
Many thanks
Lukewarm
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An Open letter to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (Elders/ Ex-Elders)
by stuckinamovement inif you are an elder or an ex-elder please add a comment.
i hope that the governing body will see this.
it is too bad it has to be on an anonymous forum.
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LUKEWARM
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Masterpiece!
Amen brother - well said!
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To all lurking JW elders
by Mickey mouse income on in, the water's fine.
you may even realise you have close friends and family here.
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LUKEWARM
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Welcome to the forum CuriousConfused!
I also resigned recently...
IMHO the biggest problem is the way the WTS demonises apostates and never elaborates as to what the disagreements are.
I never gave this much thought - was raised a witness and it seemed to me that there was enough "truth" there to keep it all together. Always wondered though, why the WTS was so paranoid about apostates - after all if we have the "truth," it should be able to stand up to anything that opposers throw up against it.
A while ago I discovered this board, and read some of the opposing views which immediately made sense to me. The more I read here the more aware I became of the legitimate issues the WTS needs to face...
Elder dissasociation letter - http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.htmlJensen blood letters (an elder corresponding with the WTS over 5 years on the blood issue) http://www.ajwrb.org/watchtower/index.shtml
As mentioned by others, I also recommend you read Ray Franz's two outstanding books:
(1) Crisis of Conscience, and
(2) In Search of Christian Freedom.
These books have had a profound impact on me - both can be purchased in book form or downloadable as PDF's (for privacy) at this address:
http://www.commentarypress.com/Publication/English.htmlRay was a governing body member of Jehovah's Witnesses for over nine years- a very sincere and humble man who remained a devout Christian until his recent passing. His insights are simply invaluable for anybody wanting to examine the JW religion in an honest and complete light.
Also, can I recommend some research our very own poster 'Mary' has compiled as a PDF document. I found this information extremely valuable in examining issues the WTS needs to confront:Please be honest with yourself and consider the opposing arguments - at the very least, examining all sides will ensure you are informed about the issues of contention
Look forward to more of your posts
Best wishes
Lukewarm.
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The letter I promised earlier from the Society on Blood
by ldrnomo inthere are four different links on sendspace.com .
each link is one of the pages of the letter here are the links.
page 1 http://www.sendspace.com/file/03vk19.
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LUKEWARM
Links are dead...
I would like to see it too ldrnomo - can you email it to me as well?