LUKEWARM

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Posts by LUKEWARM

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  226

  Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

  by the research lady in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

  our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

  the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

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  LUKEWARM

  single mom with no partner and a challenged child is the lowest of the low in the congregation pecking order.

  Lets be fair to the argument and not get personal...
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  66

  If there's some good in the Watchtower, why leave it?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the post about crisis of conscience in which the poster said he knows there's some bad in the watchtower (as brought out in coc), but there's some good in it too got me to wondering about people that stay for the good in it.. the united states makes some decisions as a country that i don't agree with, perhaps even object strongly to.

  but i don't disavow my citizenship.

  it's mostly a good place to live, so i stay.. if you want to live in a way that utterly conflicts with the watchtower -- homosexual, multiple sex partners, smoking, whatever -- then you have reason to leave.

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  LUKEWARM

  The trouble with this religion is that it's very labour intensive in comparison to other Christian faiths. So when one becomes aware of the real truth, feelings of guilt for not doing enough for God are replaced with feelings of being burdened with unnecessary activities and "traditions of men".

  But people put up with various things in life for perceived benefits. In this case, staying with the WTS to keep marriage/family together or helping loved ones come to realise their predicament may be necessary.

  I am observing more and more JW's doing their own thing in the org. They 'filter out' information they do not agree with, go in service just so something can be put on the report slip at month end and are 'hit and miss' with the meetings. Males are not interested in "reaching out".

  Seems to me that its more of a social thing for a lot of them - they refuse to be 'guilt tripped'.

  Of course, each individual reacts differently - some instantly disassociate whilst others become mentally disconnected and fade out over a period of time when the perceived benefits are no longer there...
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  22

  I would like to know if you have succeeded in helping your friends or family SLOW DOWN in their zeal as a JW

  by BonaFide in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have read thousands of posts on this forum, and i am finding with all your experiences that however hard we try, it's difficult to actually get a family member or friend to disassociate themselves.

  after all, some of us are still "active jw's", right?.

  but, i have been noticing that some seem to have accomplished enough with questions and comments that at least their family members or friends are less active as jw's.

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  LUKEWARM

  Hahahahahaaaa!
  
  Thanks Billy - seems such a waste to smash up the CO's car but I would love to have it sitting on bricks at the end of the meeting...
  
  What will I get if I can convince the friends to read ISOCF?
• 
  39

  Hello there...

  by IronHill in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hello everyone.... honestly i dont know how to start my first post.

  i have been an avid reader of jwd for some time now, and now have decided to say hello.

  i was raised as a witness, and have been baptized for 17 years.

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  LUKEWARM

  Welcome, Iron Hill and fiancé!
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  49

  time=360 days 7-times=2520 days 2520 days=2520(365 day per year)years?

  by still_in74 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have to give credit to sleepy for alerting me to this little discrepancy.

  i cant believe i have never clued into the duality of freddies logic.

  nevermind the jumping all over the bible between ot & nt to get his math together..... *** pe chap.

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  LUKEWARM

  For the benefit of anybody who may have missed this, I am amazed that both the solar and lunar calendars have been made to fit in identifying 1914!
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  66

  If there's some good in the Watchtower, why leave it?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the post about crisis of conscience in which the poster said he knows there's some bad in the watchtower (as brought out in coc), but there's some good in it too got me to wondering about people that stay for the good in it.. the united states makes some decisions as a country that i don't agree with, perhaps even object strongly to.

  but i don't disavow my citizenship.

  it's mostly a good place to live, so i stay.. if you want to live in a way that utterly conflicts with the watchtower -- homosexual, multiple sex partners, smoking, whatever -- then you have reason to leave.

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  LUKEWARM

  Excellent thread - I think the question becomes is there enough good there and enough accuracy in teachings to justify one continuing?
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  52

  Is the Society's message to JW's getting stronger?

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during a dinner conversation with a loyal jw, he mentioned that the society seems to be making stronger statements to jw's.

  he mentioned the "keep on the watch" brochure, and how it seemed to be for jw's as well as the public.

  he acknowledged the "personal questions" the society were asking us, in the brochure - how pointed and direct they are, even asking you to rank your physical and spiritual activities on a scale of 1 to 10. .

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  LUKEWARM

  The Society is facing a war on two fronts - those who want reform and those who want things to stay the way they are.

  I wonder if the ones that want reform will have more of a voice on the GB when the old guard passes away...
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  21

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-19-09 WT Study (YOUTHS)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "ponder over these things; be absorbed in them, that your advancement may be manifest to all persons.--1 tim.

  young person.

  young christian (of course, only jws).

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  LUKEWARM

  18. Doing the work of an evangelizer means making your ministry more effective and helping others to gain salvation. This requires developing the "art of teaching." (2 Tim. 4:2) By arranging to share in the ministry with those who are experienced in this work, you will be able to learn from their teaching methods, as Timothy learned from working with Paul. (1 Cor. 4:17) Referring to those he had helped, Paul said that he not only shared the good news with them but also gave of his 'own soul,' or used his very life in helping them, because they became beloved to him. (1 Thess. 2:8) to follow Paul's example in the ministry, you must have the same disposition as Timothy, who genuinely cared about others and 'slaved in furtherance of the good news.' (Read Philippians 2:19-23.) Do you show this self-sacrificing spirit in your ministry?

  So converting people to the org is "helping others to gain salvation"??

  From what I read in the Bible, our salvation depends, not on anything we might do, but on God's undeserved kindness [grace] through Christ Jesus, our Lord."
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  58

  The Social Structure in the Congregation

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever notice how the "happiest people on earth" are also the most class-oriented?

  to say that jesus said his followers should all be on equal footing, it's incredible how much the r&f witness is not on equal footing.

  the social structure in the congregation is more complex than the blueprints of a nuclear warhead, but just so that you "remember your place", see if you can find where your niche was/is:

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  LUKEWARM

  Great post Mary!

  Had a good laugh at this one liner:

  Missing meetings on a regular basis makes you more invisible than Jesus' Return in 1914.
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  22

  I would like to know if you have succeeded in helping your friends or family SLOW DOWN in their zeal as a JW

  by BonaFide in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have read thousands of posts on this forum, and i am finding with all your experiences that however hard we try, it's difficult to actually get a family member or friend to disassociate themselves.

  after all, some of us are still "active jw's", right?.

  but, i have been noticing that some seem to have accomplished enough with questions and comments that at least their family members or friends are less active as jw's.

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  LUKEWARM

  Yes, to date I have succeeded in "placing" 3 crisis of conscience books with friends and family, 1 In Search of Christian Freedom, and am currently working on placing another 2 crisis books with our friends in the cong...

  They know I love God and am an advocate for change given "doctrines of men" have been introduced into the congregation. I make them aware that I was shocked when I discovered that a governing body member resigned after 50 years of full time service - I just needed to read his story and was impressed with its lack of hatred toward the organization and the issues he raised are ones the org will need to face head on one day...

  It took quite a bit of tactful 'drip feeding' before the books were introduced.
  
  It's much easier if you are still active to help them but the key is THEY NEED TO BE READY FIRST, and this requires patience and tact to help them reason on matters and reach their own conclusions.
  
  Opening a closed mind is a SLOW process...but progress can be made if they are comfortable expressing their views on the issues. I am only still in to help friends and family. I encourage people to voice their opinions about the goings on in the org, I openly criticise things and state that the org needs to change to further align itself with the Bible (to friends and family only), I present arguments as a joke to others (eg beards are not Christian or if you live outside the territory you are unfit to serve in the cong), my meeting parts are devoid of organizational propaganda and often go on tangents...
  
  So while at the meeting or in field service or when we spend time together in a social setting the discussions vary:
  
  Blood is a great topic, eg White blood cells in breast milk - so why does society ban these when Jah has it happening in nature? Blood fractions - why ok to use donated blood and where did they come up with the approved fractions list? (I print out the Jensen letters and give to them to read http://www.ajwrb.org/watchtower/index.shtml or send them a link to Vinny's letter http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html)

  Organ transplants - people died for what when they were banned in the 60's?

  Why is preaching work urgent when half of world's population is not being witnessed to? How will God judge these people? What is our 30 second presentation really achieving? Is God going to judge people on the basis of listening to our magazine presentation? Why are we preaching a different 'good news'?
  
  "1914 Generation" teaching - new light in 95 that it related not to 1914 but to wicked people living at a certain time, then in 2008 changed that to the "anointed"? Did God reveal error to them? How could they be wrong if they are directed?
  
  Why do they stress works when bible says that salvation is gods GIFT through faith in Jesus? Will belonging to an organization save us or faith in Christ and living as best we can to please God? Evildoer executed with Jesus was saved without going to 1 meeting or field service...
  
  Why do we need to report our "service" time to anyone - Didn't Jesus teach that worship is between the individual and God? Were all preachers in first century? etc etc...
  
  They are decent people who see the errors in the organization so much patience is required to keep chipping away and deconstructing things that years of indoctrination have built up
  
  I feel Rays 2 books are important in creating awareness about the issues and in helping them to make an informed decision about their own situation.