I think you did a great job !!!
Agree!! Well done and I think he will give some of those questions further thought...
LUKEWARM
JoinedPosts by LUKEWARM
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Unloaded on the husband of my wife's study sister last night, how much damage did I do to myself??
by insearchoftruth inwell had a really good weekend away from home, but i guess i knew that the respite from the wts would end.
tuesdays are the day my wife has her personal bible study with the sister and she has also had the husband come over on tuesday afternoons so the son can have the pleasure of a bible study (which he loathes, he is a high school junior and has no interest in this stuff).
i get home from work late, after a fairly long day and the guy is still there.
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LUKEWARM
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WHERE in the bible does it say each creative day was 6,000 years? Ending around 1975??
by Witness 007 incould be 8,000 or 18,000 years long......if to jehovah each "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years a day.
" 1975 armagedon theory was based on this.
{notice how this theory has since died off} my wife was told off by an elder for giving a talk on "creative days not 24 hours" but not stating each was 6,000 years long...she said she didn't believe it....he backed off and said okay then!
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LUKEWARM
Although scripture does not specifically say they are 7,000 years in length, the total of 49,000 years (7x7000) ties in well with the principle of the Jubilee year (every 50 years) when all those (Israelites) who are enslaved will be set free and their land returned to them. It is just too neat not to be part of God's plan.
Earnest's "new light" would fit (almost) perfectly with a millenium following the 7 x 7,000 period, like the Jubilee year came after 7 x 7 years. Iow, if the 1,000-year rule was the 50th millenium of creation (like the Jubilee year was the 50th) instead of the 49th (as in the WT pattern down to 1987 at least). Only that would put Armageddon in 2975...
I like it and am sure the WTS could use it if they are still around in the year 2900 AD....
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DNCall Unmasked - Part 5 of 5
by DNCall instartfragment.
during the appeal period of one week we sent the following letter to approximately 22 of our oldest and closest friends.
im including it here because it conveys how we feel at present, looking back over the half-century of our lives.. dear ____,.
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LUKEWARM
Hi Frank,
Thank you for posting this series - very interesting!
Its truly sad that our friend's loyalty to the WTS prevents them from asking questions with an open mind and informing themselves about why we cannot continue in the organization.
Best wishes to you both
Lukewarm -
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Seeker4's 500th Post - My letter to the Elders (2nd Posting)
by Seeker4 inhere's the letter i wrote to the body of elders i served with for decades, when they invited me to a judicial committee meeting two months ago.
i have not heard a word from them since i wrote this.
i posted this monday night (may 30, 2005) to celebrate my 500th post, but it ended up in the "heated debates" section, when i intended it to go in this area.
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LUKEWARM
Never ceases to amaze me what gems one can find here!
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Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 10 August 2009
by LUKEWARM in.. *** lv chap.
8 pp.
86-96 god loves clean people ***.
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LUKEWARM
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*** lv chap. 8 pp. 86-96 God Loves Clean People ***
Q11. What does moral cleanness involve, and why is it vital that we keep clean in this respect?11 Moral cleanness. To keep morally clean includes avoiding sexual immorality of any kind. (Ephesians 5:5) It is vital that we stay morally clean. As we will see in the next chapter of this book, to remain in God's love, we must "flee from fornication." Unrepentant fornicators "will not inherit God's kingdom." (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10, 18) In God's eyes, such ones are among those who are "disgusting in their filth." If they fail to keep morally clean, "their portion will be . . . the second death."-Revelation 21:8.
Speaking of morality, how many witnesses know that the WTS published this?
*** Watchtower 1972 January 1 pp.31-2***
Questions from Readers: Do homosexual acts on the part of a married person constitute a Scriptural ground for divorce, freeing the innocent mate to remarry?-U.S.A.
Homosexuality is definitely condemned in the Bible as something that will prevent individuals from gaining God's approval. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) However, whether an innocent mate would scripturally be able to remarry after procuring a legal divorce from a mate guilty of homosexual acts must be determined on the basis of what the Bible says respecting divorce and remarriage......While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual "one flesh" with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate. Q12, 13. What connection is there between thoughts and actions, and how can we keep mentally clean?12 Mental cleanness. Thoughts lead to actions. If we allow wrong thoughts to take up residence in our mind and heart, sooner or later we are bound to commit unclean deeds. (Matthew 5:28; 15:18-20) But if we fill our mind with pure, clean thoughts, we can be motivated to maintain conduct that is clean. (Philippians 4:8) How can we keep mentally clean? For one thing, we need to avoid any form of entertainment that could soil our thinking. In addition, we can fill our mind with clean thoughts by regularly studying God's Word.-Psalm 19:8, 9.
"...regularly studying God's Word" or WTS publications?
13 To remain in God's love, it is essential that we keep ourselves spiritually, morally, and mentally clean. These aspects of cleanness are discussed more fully in other chapters of this publication. Let us here examine the fourth aspect-physical cleanliness.
HOW CAN WE KEEP PHYSICALLY CLEAN?
Q14. Why is physical cleanliness not just a personal matter?14 Physical cleanliness involves keeping our body and surroundings clean. Is such cleanliness a personal matter that should be of no concern to anyone else? That could hardly be the case for worshippers of Jehovah. As already noted, our physical cleanliness matters to Jehovah not only because it is best for us but also because we reflect on him. Think about the illustration used at the outset. Seeing a child who is always dirty or unkempt makes you wonder about his parents, does it not? We would not want anything about our appearance or way of life to bring reproach on our heavenly Father or to detract from the message we preach. God's Word says: "In no way are we giving any cause for stumbling, that our ministry might not be found fault with; but in every way we recommend ourselves as God's ministers." (2 Corinthians 6:3, 4) How, then, can we keep physically clean?
"...detract from the message we preach." - A message that is different to what Jesus, the apostles and first century Christians preached.http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/preach.phpQ1515 Our personal hygiene and appearance. Although cultures and living conditions vary from country to country, we can generally find adequate soap and water to bathe regularly and to make sure that we and our children are clean. Good hygienic habits include washing our hands with soap and water before eating or handling food, after using the toilet, and after washing or changing a baby. Washing the hands with soap and water can prevent illness and actually save lives. It can prevent the spread of harmful viruses and bacteria, thus helping people avoid diarrheic diseases. In lands where houses are not commonly connected to a sewage system, wastes can perhaps be disposed of by burying, as was done in ancient Israel.-Deuteronomy 23:12, 13.
16 Our clothing too requires regular washing to be clean and presentable. A Christian's clothing need not be expensive or the latest fashion, but it should be neat, clean, and modest. (1 Timothy 2:9, 10) No matter where we are, we want our appearance to "adorn the teaching of our Savior, God."-Titus 2:10.
Unbelievable that the WTS is dumbing this down to things taught in primary school, 16. What do good hygienic habits include, and what should be true of our clothing?Q17. Why should our home and surroundings be clean and presentable?17 Our home and surroundings. Our home may not be fancy or luxurious, but it should be as clean and presentable as circumstances permit. Likewise, if we use an automobile for transportation to meetings and in the field ministry, we can do our best to keep it reasonably clean, inside and out. Let us not forget that a clean home and surroundings are a witness in themselves. After all, we teach people that Jehovah is a clean God, that he will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth," and that his Kingdom will soon transform our earthly home into a paradise. (Revelation 11:18; Luke 23:43) Surely we want the appearance of our home and belongings to show others that even now we are developing clean habits that will fit in with the coming new world.
"...are a witness in themselves..." - a witness for Jah, Jesus or the WTS?
"...kingdom will soon transform..." - soon for the last 120 years
Q18. How can we show respect for our Kingdom Hall?18 Our place of worship. Our love for Jehovah moves us to show respect for our Kingdom Hall, a center of true worship in the area. When new ones come to the hall, we want them to have a favorable impression of our meeting place. Regular cleaning and maintenance are needed in order to ensure that the hall remains appealing and attractive. We show respect for our Kingdom Hall by doing what we can to keep it in good condition. It is a privilege to volunteer our time to assist in cleaning and "mending and repairing" our place of worship. (2 Chronicles 34:10) The same principles apply when we meet at an Assembly Hall or another facility for assemblies or conventions.
"...true worship in the area." - Really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses -
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-09-09 WT Study (JEHOVAH'S HOUSE)
by blondie in16:7-11.. *** scriptures inspired p. 82 par.
(a) how did jehoshaphat and judah receive direction?
what about josiah, did he always follow direction?.
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LUKEWARM
Top job Blondie - brilliant analysis as usuall!!
This article is full of incredible conclusions - massive unsubstantiated leaps in comparing the Jewish way of worship to the JW (supposedly Christian) arrangement/congregation.
Their useless tract campaigns are even a reflection of some Old Testament event.
Are they running out of things to write about?
We want to respond to Jehovah's direction promptly, taking to heart the warning example of what can happen if we allow apostasy and unfaithfulness to encroach on our worship. And we can be confident that Jehovah will note with approval our zeal for true worship, just as he did in Josiah's case.
Why do they never elaborate as to what exactly constitutes apostasy or what apostates disagree with? -
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When will they realise that the bus isn't coming?
by eyeslice ini was still a kid and living at home at the time, and so that must have been well over 30 years ago, that i heard ron drage (now a senior member of the uk bethel) say "if you are waiting at the bus stop it, is better to be 10 minutes early rather than miss it".
what he was referring to of course was the then then 1975 issue; in other words armageddon has arrived yet but it just round the corner and we are a little early for it.. i don't know what brought this to my mind the other day but i got to thinking, surely if you are waiting for a bus and you get there 10 minutes early and it doesn't then turn up, how long do you wait?
10 minutes, 15 minutes, half an hour, an hour, two hours?
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LUKEWARM
*** w03 8/15 p. 24 What Does Jehovah Expect of Us? ***
A Waiting Attitude Brings Blessings
20 Experiencing Jehovah's blessing moves us to imitate Micah's spirit. He declares: "I will show a waiting attitude for the God of my salvation." (Micah 7:7) How do these words relate to our walking modestly with God? Having a waiting attitude, or patience, helps us to avoid feeling disappointed that Jehovah's day has not yet come. (Proverbs 13:12) Frankly, we all long for the end of this wicked world. However, every week thousands of people are just beginning to walk with God. Knowing that gives us a reason for showing a waiting attitude. One longtime Witness said in this connection: "Looking back over 55 years in the preaching work, I am convinced that I have not lost anything by waiting on Jehovah. On the contrary, I have been spared many heartaches." Have you had a similar experience?
I think many are disappointed that they trusted the WBTS, preached things now considered old light and are now facing their own end in this system. One bro who has been around for over 50 years recently told me he hates when they say the end is just around the corner as they really have no idea... -
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What the Family Worship Evening Arrangement Really Entails
by cantleave inas most people here know the combined book study allows an evening for "family worship".. the co visits march - august 2009 is really focussing on this.
if a jdub family head doesn't do a full evening of family worship and uses this time to do recreational activities he is as guilty as isrealite who didn't use the sabbath for worship.
the result, will of course be same as the unfaithful isrealite, death!!!!!!!!!
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LUKEWARM
The Elders are going to visit everyone in the cong over the next 6 months
From what I can recall, the CO mentioned elders should "encourage family worship" WHEN they are on a shepherding call. It was the subject of one of the three main themes discussed in the elders/servants meeting themed "buy out the opportune time". Here are some questions the CO asked in the meeting (some required responses others were rhetorical):
Analysing our use of time:How are you appointed men using your time?
In what practical ways are you scheduling time for spiritual as well as secular responsibilities?
Think of your schedule - how does it show what takes precedence? Are you an example to others in the cong?
Have you set things up so time works for you and not vice versa (knocking back overtime on meeting nights, working weekends etc)?
Are you prepared to "buy out time" for more important things?
Buying out time for family worshipWhat schedule for family worship have you found practical?
What can you do to ensure time is set aside for family worship?
What have you done to keep study up?
How can family heads keep worship interesting and practical?
What can you do to encourage others to do family worship (do you talk about it during meeting parts, when in the ministry or when you have brothers over)?
How can a shepherding visit be used to help a family (ask questions about what they are doing, offer suggestions on what they can do or how)?
Buying out time to share in the ministryDo you have freeness of speech when talking about the ministry from the platform?
Do others see you taking the lead in the ministry or are you seldom seen?
Why might the lack of VISIBILITY in the ministry be a cause for concern (if doing bible studies or return visits only and not doing door-to-door with group)?
What assistance are you giving others to increase their share in the ministry?
How can your practical suggestions and counsel help others to but out the opportune time?
He also mentioned there are over 20 irregular publishers in our cong! -
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Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 3 August 2009
by LUKEWARM in*** lv chap.
8 pp.
86-96 god loves clean people ***.
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LUKEWARM
*** lv chap. 8 pp. 86-96 God Loves Clean People ***
"With the one keeping clean you will show yourself clean."-PSALM 18:26.
Q1-3. (a) Why does a mother make sure that her son is neat and clean? (b) Why does Jehovah want his worshippers to be clean, and what motivates us to want to keep ourselves clean?A MOTHER prepares her little boy to go out. She makes sure that he is bathed and that his clothes are neat and clean. She knows that good hygiene is crucial to his health. She also recognizes that her son's appearance reflects on his parents.
2 Jehovah, our heavenly Father, wants his servants to be clean. His Word says: "With the one keeping clean you will show yourself clean." (Psalm 18:26) Jehovah loves us; he knows that keeping clean is best for us. He also expects us as his Witnesses to reflect favorably on him. Indeed, our clean appearance and fine conduct will bring glory to, not reproach on, Jehovah and his holy name.-Ezekiel 36:22; 1 Peter 2:12.
"...his servants" - only JW's?"...expects us as his Witnesses" - Didn't Jesus say that Christians would be 'witnesses of ME'?Why did Jesus not use Jah's name yet JW's need to be ever conscious to "not reproach on...his holy name"3 Knowing that God loves clean people motivates us to keep clean. We want our way of life to bring honor to him because we love him. We also want to remain in his love. Let us, then, examine why we need to keep clean, what being clean involves, and how we can keep ourselves clean. Such an examination can help us to see whether there are areas in which we need to make improvement.
Where is Jesus?WHY DO WE NEED TO KEEP CLEAN?
Q4, 5. (a) What is the primary reason why we need to keep clean? (b) How is Jehovah's cleanness evident in his visible creations?4 One way Jehovah leads us is by example. His Word thus urges us to "become imitators of God." (Ephesians 5:1) Here is the primary reason why we need to keep clean: Jehovah, the God we worship, is clean, pure, and holy in every respect.-Leviticus 11:44, 45.
"Jehovah leads us" or the WTS leads JW's?5 Jehovah's cleanness, like so many of his qualities and ways, is evident in his visible creations. (Romans 1:20) The earth was designed to be a clean home for humans. Jehovah has put into place ecological cycles that clean our air and water. Certain microbes act as a kind of sanitation department, transforming waste into harmless products. Scientists have utilized some of these hungry microorganisms to clean up oil spills and other pollution caused by human selfishness and greed. Obviously, cleanliness matters to "the Maker of the earth." (Jeremiah 10:12) It should also matter to us.
"Scientists have utilized..." - which/where/who?"...oil spills and other pollution caused by human selfishness and greed" - so why does the WTS publishing and Printing Corporation waste and pollute the earths resources with its publications - much of which are thrown out?Q6, 7. How did the Mosaic Law emphasize that cleanness was required of those who worshipped Jehovah?6 Another reason why we need to keep clean is that Jehovah, our Sovereign Ruler, requires cleanness of his worshippers. Under the Law that Jehovah gave to Israel, cleanness and worship were inseparable. The Law specified that on the Day of Atonement, the high priest had to bathe not once but twice. (Leviticus 16:4, 23, 24) Officiating priests were required to wash their hands and feet before offering sacrifices to Jehovah. (Exodus 30:17-21; 2 Chronicles 4:6) The Law outlined some 70 causes of physical uncleanness and ceremonial defilement. While in an unclean state, an Israelite could not have any part in worship-in certain cases, under penalty of death. (Leviticus 15:31) Anyone refusing to undergo the required purifying procedure, including bathing his body and washing his clothes, was to be "cut off from the midst of the congregation."-Numbers 19:17-20.
"...our Sovereign Ruler..." - Why does the WTS interfere and lord it over the JW's so much then?"Law outlined some 70 causes of physical uncleanness..." - so does that mean that when JW's have sex or when a woman has her menstrual cycle they are unclean?7 Although we are not under the Mosaic Law, it gives us insight into God's thinking on matters. Clearly, the Law emphasized that cleanness was required of those who worshipped God. Jehovah has not changed. (Malachi 3:6) Our worship cannot be acceptable to him unless it is "clean and undefiled." (James 1:27) We thus need to know what he expects of us in this regard.
"...under the Mosaic Law, it gives us insight into God's thinking on matters" - if Jesus came to abolish the law then why is this consideration worthy for Christians?"clean and undefiled." (James 1:27) - Why is the WTS quoting this scripture out of context? Is it because they don't encourage JW's to do what that scripture says Christians should do?WHAT BEING CLEAN IN GOD'S EYES INVOLVES
Q8. In what respects does Jehovah expect us to keep clean?8 In the Bible, the idea of being clean means more than just physical cleanness. Being clean in God's eyes touches all aspects of our lives. Jehovah expects us to keep clean in four basic respects-spiritually, morally, mentally, and physically. Let us consider what each of these involves.
Q9, 10. What does it mean to keep spiritually clean, and what do true Christians avoid?9 Spiritual cleanness. Put simply, keeping spiritually clean means not mixing true worship with false. When the Israelites left Babylon to return to Jerusalem, they were to heed this inspired exhortation: "Get out of there, touch nothing unclean; . . . keep yourselves clean." (Isaiah 52:11) The Israelites were returning home primarily to restore Jehovah's worship. That worship had to be clean-not tainted by any of the God-dishonoring teachings, practices, and customs of Babylonish religion.
"..not mixing true worship with false" - What is true worship when they keep changing their mind?http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part4.htm"The Israelites were returning home primarily to restore Jehovah's worship" - Why are they discussing isralites and not what Jesus set forth for Christians?"...tainted by any of the God-dishonoring teachings, practices, and customs of Babylonish religion" - Why did the prophet Daniel (described as a desirable man by God in the Bible) choose to become the 3 rd person in charge in the kingdom, even accepting to have his name changed to a false Babylonish God??10 Today, we as true Christians must be careful not to become contaminated by false worship. (1 Corinthians 10:21) Caution is essential in this regard, for the influence of false religion is pervasive. In many lands, various traditions, activities, and rituals are connected with false religious teachings, such as the notion that something inside us survives death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10) True Christians avoid customs involving false religious beliefs. We will not allow pressure from others to cause us to compromise the Bible's standards of clean worship.-Acts 5:29.
"...true Christians" - Only JW's?"contaminated by false worship" - The WTS arrogantly points the finger at others rather than looking at itselfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses
"We will not allow pressure from others..." - What pressure, by whom and why do they never elaborate what the disagreements are?
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Hello id like to intruduce myself
by Belly inive been lurking this site for quite a while but for some reason never could muster up the courage to post.. let me give a little background on my self.. i am 18 and male an still living with my parents.
i was baptised at 15 basically against my will (by cracking under the pressure) but only truly broke out of the drone like mindswhen i was 17. since then its been totall choas in my life all of it stemming from the orginization of course.
my parents are the defenition of brainwashed wittnesses, my father even belives he is anointed.. after i got baptised i suffered from intense deppression and with a little soul searching, after a year i realized that i need some time for my self.
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LUKEWARM
Welcome Belly!
I'm sure your parents want the best for you but are just as misinformed as the other JW's about the truth of their religion...
You are now in a position to make something of your life and at some later point you may be able to help your parents and friends reconsider what they have placed their trust in.
Use your time wisely to acquire new skills and get an education so the rest of your life will be easier
Look forward to more of your posts
Lukewarm