Is the WTS teaching its members to bait and switch?
Q 10. How can good manners help us to have a productive ministry?
10. Consider the case of a Christian couple named Tom and Carol, who live in a large North American city. BAIT: They have made pleasant conversation with their neighbours a part of their ministry. How do they do it? Referring to James 3:18, Torn says: "We try to be friendly and peaceable with people. We approach those we see outside their homes and those who work in the area. We smile and greet them. We talk about what interests them--their children, their dogs, their homes, their jobs. In time, they view us as their friends." SWITCH: Carol adds: "On a later visit, we give them our names and ask for theirs. We let them know what we are doing in the neighbourhood but keep the conversations brief. Eventually, we can give them a witness." Tom and Carol have won the confidence of many of their neighbours. A good number have accepted Bible-based publications, and a few have shown greater interest in learning the truth.Also, not sure if anyone else noticed but they have a half page report at the end of the study (on the same page as the concluding paragraphs) about a girl with a large heart - she contributed to the local hall but SENT THE LARGER PORTION of her donation to the WTS with a letter...
Their clever way of implying these messages without out rightly asking for money is sneaky and underhanded - but then again in the same issue there is the annual how you can contribute - wills, real estate, jewlery, shares etc are all acceptable - does God need all these assets?
LUKEWARM
JoinedPosts by LUKEWARM
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-31-10 WT Study (GOOD MANNERS)
by blondie inson.. comments.
comments.
ministry.. comments.
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LUKEWARM
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If You Really Want to Bring Down Jehovah's Witnesses (for your peace of mind)
by AllTimeJeff inget them to think.. do you have loved ones?
friends?
stuck in the cult?.
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LUKEWARM
It's not about the borg. It's about the people inside. You won't get all of them, esp those who don't want to think. But for those that do, help them. Don't make it too personal, but give them some facts and ideas.
Well said ATJ.
Progress toward unbiased learning and informed decissions based on free will is only possible if they have the willingness and desire to think and face the facts.The best we can do is try to nurture and cultivate an atmosphere where the have opportunity to do so and be honest with themselves.
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-31-10 WT Study (GOOD MANNERS)
by blondie inson.. comments.
comments.
ministry.. comments.
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LUKEWARM
Thanks for your ongoing analysis of these articles Blondie!
Q4. How can we imitate Jehovah when others speak to us?4. God's good manners are also evident in the way he listens to humans. When Abraham raised questions regarding the people of Sodom, Jehovah patiently answered each one. (Gen. 18:23-32) He did not view Abraham's concern as a drain on His time. Jehovah listens to the prayers of his servants and to the cries of repentant sinners. (Read Psalm 51:11,17.) Should we not imitate Jehovah by listening when others speak to us?
So God allowed and was willing to submit to Abrahams repeated questioning, but Jehovah's Witnesses can't question 9 UN-INSPIRED men who vote on what the religion teaches and what their members need to believe and promote to others in order to maintain "approved association" within the group.
The average JW knows if they dare question these 9 men, known as the "slave class", they will pull rank and send instructions to the local congregation elders to "re-adjust" him.
It's disgusting that they preach and question others with "Should we not imitate Jehovah by listening when others speak to us?" when they themselves display the same characteristics as the Pharisees Jesus condemned, namely: pride, arrogance and control! -
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Mill Hill Disfellowshippings
by BorgHater ina few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
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LUKEWARM
Meanwhile my encouragement to all former JW's here would be: Be like the honey bee, extract the good out of all you visit.. and as I said before, try in some way to turn your lemon into lemonaid. That is what brought me back from the brink of despair and suicide.
For those of us/you who retain a spirituality.. draw close to God and Christ in your personal relationship.. strengthen your OWN conscience before them. Try to channel your Frozen Anger into a power for good. IMHO.Well said Podobear!
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Watchtower cleans out Kingdom Hall Library's ...
by RR inlast night i got a call from a chap in the uk, who recently left the jw's.
he wanted to compare notes with his us counterparts.. he said that a few years ago, (i think about 2 years ago) the society cleaned out all the literature from every kingdom hall, particularly russell and rutherford books and anything prior to 1950. giving each hall a computer with the watchtower cd rom for them to use for research.
he wanted to know if the same was done in the states.
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LUKEWARM
Should JW's look into older publications?
*** w57 5/15 p. 313 Appreciating Basic Christian Publications ***
Their zeal for knowledge may even prompt them to dig back into things that were published long before they came into the truth, expanding and deepening their understanding, and ever growing in Christian maturity. Do you dig into our older publications to expand and deepen your knowledge on subjects about which questions arise? Have you really studied these earlier publications? How is your background of knowledge? Never think: "Oh, I know most of that." For you will find, indeed, that you do not and that you will be strengthened by your additional study...once you have completed your study of them you can then look to even older publications. Only by studying earlier publications and digging back through previous issues of The Watchtower kept in the library at your local Kingdom Hall. There is much in the way of spiritual riches and aid toward mature knowledge in these earlier publications, and their study is most certainly worth your time."
*** km 11/02 p. 2 Very Good Reading! ***
Would you not agree that the following titles of past Watchtower articles sound like very good reading?
“God Knows and Protects His Own”
“Progress Toward Taming the Tongue”
“When Christianity Went Underground”
“Preaching Effectively at the Doors”
“Answering the Question, Are You Saved?”
These articles and scores of others appeared in The Watchtower during the years 1951 and 1952. Are they too old for us to benefit from them now? Far from it! You can still obtain Watchtower bound volumes in English for the years 1951 and 1952. (Some English bound volumes for the years 1953 through 1959 are also available.) Any publishers who desire these Watchtower bound volumes may now request them through the congregation literature servant.
The Theocratic Ministry School overseer should check to see if any bound volumes are missing from the Kingdom Hall library and order accordingly.
*** be p. 31 par. 3 Study Is Rewarding ***
In addition to this, some have wisely invested time in studying some of our Christian publications that were printed prior to their learning the truth.
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Get a JW to explain why the WTS keeps stressing putting in more hours in the "field service"
by LUKEWARM ingiven the wts constant indoctrination to "do more", i have had productive conversations with jw's about:.
(1) half the worlds population is not being witnessed to so how will god judge these people?.
(2) given people dont know much about jw's, will god judge people based on our 30 second magazine presentation and their reaction to that?
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LUKEWARM
Given the WTS constant indoctrination to "do more", I have had productive conversations with JW's about:
(1) Half the worlds population is not being witnessed to so how will God judge these people?
(2) Given people dont know much about JW's, will God judge people based on our 30 second magazine presentation and their reaction to that?
(3) Why is it urgent when God can read the heart of person?
Here is another argument to add to that list courtesy of Ray Franz on p460 of his book "In Search of Christian Freedom"http://www.commentarypress.com/Publication/English.html
"In actuality, the lack of any formal program and the apparent spontaneity and individual motivation of the first century Christians are what are most remarkable in the accounts we do find in the Bible. We find only the barest of suggestions of what their meetings were like and no indication of any methodology or systematization in their proclaiming of the good news.
I recall that during the years I served in circuit and district overseer activity I used to puzzle over this when preparing the "service talks" that were a regular feature of the weekly program when visiting congregations. I wanted to prepare talks that were scriptural, but it seemed so difficult to find scriptures that even faintly reflected the kind of "organized service" urged by the headquarters in its publications. I found it hard to understand how the apostles Paul and John and the disciples James and Jude, could write entire letters to the congregations and never say anything stressing the need for the readers of those letters to get out and go from door to door, nothing about organised witnessing arrangements at scheduled times, about putting in more hours in the "field service" or similar approaches or topics, all things regularly stressed in the Watch Tower Society's publications. The letters of the apostles and disciples seemed deficient according to the viewpoint that had been developed in me.
It eventually became clear, after some decades, that the real problem lay with the viewpoint inculcated in me, a viewpoint that actually perverted the first-century record, manipulating it to make it say something it did not actually say. False deduction is employed. From the broad principle that all Christians should share the good news, deductions are made to support and cover virtually every aspect of the organizations systematised approach to worship and preaching. But those deductions are unjustified, as indicated by the absence of corroborative evidence in the Scriptures themselves. The systematised, highly programmed approach to Christianity that has developed bears greater resemblance to that of a large sales organization than to the first-century Christian congregation and its simple, uncomplicated approach to worship and service to God." -
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Is it really okay for a JW to lie?
by dissed inbeen away from the wts for 13 years and noticed at jwn many are mentioning its now okay for jw's to lie, if....... its for the right reasons.
like misleading the jw's and worldy people about district convention parking.
to raise monies for the wts.
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LUKEWARM
*** Watchtower, 1955, 6/1 pp. 329-330 Jehovah's Witnesses--A Religion Without Ministers? ***
Thank you Fatfreek for posting that - I had no idea that they ever made reference to the trial in the publications!
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Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 25 January 2010
by LUKEWARM in*** lv chap.
16 pp.
183-195 oppose the devil and his crafty acts ***.
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LUKEWARM
If i may ask, what effect did it have on them that they read CoC and iSoCF?
bohn, progress so far is:
1 - Mrs Lukewarm mentally disengaged (complains about every meeting we attend)
2 - Mr & Mrs commenced fading
2 - Mr & Mrs hit and miss with meetings and rarely seen in service (after Crisis only)
1 - Mr stepped aside as elder, is mentally disengaged and helping other family members
1 - Mr half way through ISoCF and remains elder...
Important thing is to show and reason with them on WTS publications. Get to know your stuff inside out, show them the quotes and come across that "it troubles you..." That way they are not forced to defend/justify themselves and the information becomes more palatable for them to absorb.IMHO the key is to try and open their mind to think/question/agree before Mr Franz is introduced...
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Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 25 January 2010
by LUKEWARM in*** lv chap.
16 pp.
183-195 oppose the devil and his crafty acts ***.
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LUKEWARM
How do you cope with knowing all this and still deal with going to the meetings Lukewarm? Can you keep silent when you need to?
Cannot keep silent boyzone - I am always goofing around so I get to push a lot of boundaries - I also make sure I have WT quotes to use for the more serious conversations.
Keeping up appearances is difficult but it pains me to leave many good people behind who are uninformed of the real truth - especially family.
All my energy is going into research, creating opportunities for tactful conversation/questions/feedback on matters and presenting snippets of information for their consideration. Once all this ground work is done and they agree with the matters discussed/read and start to think for themselves I then talk about Ray Franz and how I could not believe what the man went through. Most don't know who he is or that he was once a governing body member. Depending on how that conversation goes I say something like: "If you knew something like this I would expect you to tell me about it so that I could make up my own mind about the matter. So, if you like, I will give you his book to read and then you can make up your own mind if there is any substance to his side of the story".
That is how I am doing my bit to disseminate and inform...5 people so far have read both Crisis of Conscience + In Search of Christian Freedom. There is another 4 I am trying to get to the stage where they will read Rays books and then the fade can commence...
I honestly feel that being on the inside and remaining a Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing is the best chance one has at getting them to consider the alternative arguments and aiding them in making an informed decision about the religion. -
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Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 25 January 2010
by LUKEWARM in*** lv chap.
16 pp.
183-195 oppose the devil and his crafty acts ***.
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LUKEWARM
*** lv chap. 16 pp. 183-195 Oppose the Devil and His Crafty Acts ***
"Oppose the Devil, and he will flee."-JAMES 4:7.
Q1, 2. For whom are baptisms occasions for joy?IF YOU have been serving Jehovah for decades, you have likely heard numerous baptism talks at our assemblies and conventions. Yet, no matter how often you have been present on such occasions, you likely still feel moved each time you witness the moment that those sitting in the front rows of the auditorium stand up to present themselves for baptism. At that instant, a buzz of excitement ripples through the audience, followed by a burst of heartfelt applause. Tears may well up in your eyes as you look at yet another group of precious individuals who have taken sides with Jehovah. What joy we feel at such times!
"serving Jehovah" or serving the WTS?
"precious individuals who have taken sides with Jehovah" or WTS?
2 While we may witness baptisms a few times a year in our locality, the angels are privileged to observe them much more often. Can you imagine how much "joy in heaven" there must be as they see thousands of individuals worldwide added to the visible part of Jehovah's organization each week? (Luke 15:7, 10) No doubt, the angels are thrilled to observe this increase!-Haggai 2:7.
"may witness baptisms" - mainly children of believers and dwindling numbers of outsiders
More presumptuousness applying Luke 15:7, 10 to JW baptism and calling themselves the "visible part of Jehovah's organization"!
"No doubt" - another WTS buzz word used when you have reason to doubt
THE DEVIL "WALKS ABOUT LIKE A ROARING LION"
Q3. Why is Satan walking about "like a roaring lion," and what does he want to do?3 In stark contrast, however, there are spirit creatures who observe those baptisms with fury. For Satan and the demons, it is galling to see thousands turn their backs on this corrupt world. After all, Satan boasted that no humans serve Jehovah out of genuine love and that none would remain faithful under severe test. (Job 2:4, 5) Every time someone is moved to dedicate himself to Jehovah, Satan is proved wrong. It is as if Satan receives thousands of slaps in the face every week of the year. No wonder he "walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone"! (1 Peter 5:8) This "lion" is eager to devour us spiritually, causing us to damage or even sever our relationship with God.-Psalm 7:1, 2; 2 Timothy 3:12.
More assumptions made here - that JW are indeed serving Jehovah and not following the dictates of 12 men in Brooklyn.
"thousands baptised as JW's are only ones who "turn their backs on this corrupt world"?
Other Christians endeavouring to live by Bible principles are incapable of proving Satan "wrong"?
Q4, 5. (a) Jehovah has restricted Satan's influence in what two important ways? (b) Of what can a true Christian be assured?4 Although we face a fierce foe, we have no reason to be overwhelmed by fear. Why not? Because Jehovah has restricted the reach of that "roaring lion" in two important ways. What are they? First of all, Jehovah has foretold that "a great crowd" of true Christians will survive the coming "great tribulation." (Revelation 7:9, 14) God's prophecies never fail. Therefore, even Satan must know that God's people as a whole are beyond his reach.
"a great crowd" - a future group composed of only JW's?
"God's people as a whole are beyond his reach" - so individual JW's have no protection?
5 The second restriction can be deduced from a basic truth spoken by one of God's faithful men of old. The prophet Azariah said to King Asa: "Jehovah is with you as long as you prove to be with him." (2 Chronicles 15:2; 1 Corinthians 10:13) Numerous recorded examples demonstrate that in the past, Satan always failed to devour any of God's servants who remained close to God. (Hebrews 11:4-40) Today, a Christian who stays close to God will be able to oppose and even conquer the Devil. In fact, God's Word assures us: "Oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you."-James 4:7.
More old testament examples applied to Christians
Did Jesus not say he would be with Christians not Jehovah? (Mat 28:20)
God's servants only JW's?
"WE HAVE A WRESTLING . . . AGAINST THE WICKED SPIRIT FORCES"
Q6. How does Satan fight against individual Christians?6 Satan cannot win the war, so to speak, but he can make casualties of us as individuals if we let our guard down. Satan knows that he can devour us if he can weaken our bond with Jehovah. How does Satan try to achieve this? By attacking us intensely, personally, and cunningly. Let us consider these main strategies of Satan.
"weaken our bond with Jehovah" or WTS?
Q 7. Why is Satan intensely attacking Jehovah's people?7 Intense attacks. The apostle John stated: "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (1 John 5:19) Those words contain a warning for all true Christians. Since Satan has already devoured the entire ungodly world of mankind, he can now focus on and intensify his attacks on those who have so far eluded him-Jehovah's people. (Micah 4:1; John 15:19; Revelation 12:12, 17) He has great anger because he knows his time is short. So he has stepped up the pressure. Today, we face his final rampage of savagery and destruction. Hence, now more than ever, we need to "discern the times to know what [we] ought to do."-1 Chronicles 12:32.
Jehovah's people only JW's?
Do JW's cope better with Satan's "pressure" than they do with WTS "pressure"?
"Today, we face his final rampage of savagery and destruction" - Jesus said nobody knows the day or hour but they have been focusing on the end and saying its around the corner since 1879!
How does the context of 1 Chronicles 12:32 apply to Christians?
Q 8. What does the apostle Paul mean when he states that we have "a wrestling" against wicked spirits?8 Personal wrestling. The apostle Paul warned fellow Christians: "We have a wrestling . . . against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places." (Ephesians 6:12) Why did Paul use the term "wrestling"? Because it conveys the idea of hand-to-hand combat and a struggle at close quarters. Thus, by using that term, Paul stressed that each of us has a personal fight with wicked spirits. Whether we live in a country where belief in wicked spirits is prevalent or not, we should never forget that when we dedicated ourselves to Jehovah, we stepped on the wrestling mat, as it were. At least from dedication onward, each Christian is locked in combat. No wonder that Paul saw the need to urge Christians in Ephesus three times to "stand firm"!-Ephesians 6:11, 13, 14.
"personal fight with wicked spirits" - can we do so without the WTS?
"dedicated ourselves to Jehovah" or WTS?
"each Christian" - only a JW?
"from dedication onward, each Christian is locked in combat" - yes to live up to the impossible demands set by the WTS