Is it really okay for a JW to lie?

by dissed 40 Replies latest jw friends

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  dissed

  Been away from the WTS for 13 years and noticed at JWN many are mentioning its now okay for JW's to lie, if......

  its for the right reasons. Like misleading the JW's and worldy people about District Convention parking. to raise monies for the WTS. Then, its okay.

  I really don't get it, lying is lying, and if you do, well, we know who your father is.

  But times are a changing, and maybe this is how it came to be so prevelant now among the JW's.

  It seemed rare in the early 90's to carry on in such a way. When a close friend, a CO told me he had to tell little lies, I looked back at him puzzled. He said it wasn't worth all the trouble for the friends to get upset about some things. So it was just easier to have them draw a different conclusion. Nobody was hurt, so is it really that wrong?

  I was thinking, sure, you don't have to be brutally honest, but at least tell the truth, no?

  Two years later, another good friend was being trained for the Circuit work and one of his teachers showed him how to lie to the friends properly. He was shocked, but kept silent, and told me, he would NEVER do that!

  Is it no wonder with examples like these, lying as become so prevelant today among the JW's?

  Take for example, my JW Brother in Law Elder. At a once a year family reunion, he excused himself, apologized and said some important business came up and he had to leave early. Passing by me he mentioned, this is when being an Elder can be tough, implying it was congregation business. Only to find out later, he had an afternoon Golf match with some buddies he didn't want to miss.

  You're probably not shocked at what he did and why? Because this is the reputation JW's have today. You are not surprised are you?

  Am I correct in this thinking? Are the JW's as a group, comfortable now with lying? Are they just following the examples of their leaders, the Governing Body, Co's and Elders? There have been a number of changes since I left, is this just another one?
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  Fatfreek

  Hi Dissed,

  While Fred Franz wasn't the father of the lie, his testimony in the Walsh trial was far before you and I left the JW's. Here, Franz is being questioned by a prosecutor -- this a matter of public record. Your experiences are not surprising since all who you mention are merely following Franz's example. Len Miller

  Q. It was promulgated as a matter which must be believed by all members of Jehovah's witnesses that the Lord's Second Coming took place in 1874?
  (A short discussion of evidence given by Fred W Franz about 1874 takes place here.)

  Q. That was the publication of false prophecy?
  A. That was the publication of a false prophecy, it was a false statement or an erroneous statement in fulfillment of a prophecy that was false or erroneous.Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses?
  A. Yes, because you must understand, we must have unity, we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way, an army is supposed to march in step.
  Q. Back to the point now, a false prophecy was promulgated? A. I agree to that.Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's witnesses?
  A. That is correct.Q. If a member of Jehovah's witnesses took the view himself that that prophecy was wrong, and said so, would he be disfellowshipped?
  A. Yes, if he said so, and kept on persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous, and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across, then there is a disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching ...... Our purpose is to haveunity. Q. Unity at all costs?
  A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation,the governing body of our organisation, to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time. Q. A unity based on an enforced acceptance of false prophecy? A. That is conceded to be true.
  Q. And the person who expresses his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the covenant, if he was baptised?
  A. That is correct.Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
  A. I think....
  Q. Would you say yes or no?
  A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.Q. Do you call that religion?
  A. It certainly is.Q. Do you call that Christianity?
  A. I certainly do.
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  dissed

  Hey Fatfreak!

  I 'm not aware of the Walsh trial. Where can I find more about it?
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  Out at Last!

  Dubs lie ALL the time, especially ELDERS. I got to know them so well that I could tell by their facial expressions and body language. Each and every one in my cong would lie, or avoid the questions that they did not want to answer. This is especially so if some want to appoint you to a position and others didn't want that to happen. The lies and half truths fly.
• 

  dissed

  out at last -

  When I mentioned my Bro in law, I was surprised to see that it was so natural to him. He did it without hesitation and spoke freely. That has to be from habit like the elders you mentioned.

  Which is why I wrote this. The JW's have become comfortable with lying, they do it so much. Claiming to be the true religion, then lying all the time doesn't add up.
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  doublelife

  When I was a teenager I heard a talk given by an elder where he used the scripture at Joshua 2:1-7 to show that lying, for the right reasons, is okay. In the scripture, Rahab lies to protect the spies. God actually looked with favor upon this lie and saved her for it. So there is biblical proof that lying is okay! Don't pay attention to that cognitive dissonance kicking in. Just pray and it'll go away.

  English Standard Version

  1 And Joshua the son of Nun ( A ) sent [ a ] two men secretly from Shittim as spies, saying, "Go, view the land, especially Jericho." And they went and came into the house of ( B ) a prostitute whose name was ( C ) Rahab and lodged there. 2 And it was told to the king of Jericho, "Behold, men of Israel have come here tonight to search out the land." 3 Then the king of Jericho sent to Rahab, saying, "Bring out the men who have come to you, who entered your house, for they have come to search out all the land." 4 But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. And she said, "True, the men came to me, but I did not know where they were from. 5 And when the gate was about to be closed at dark, the men went out. I do not know where the men went. Pursue them quickly, for you will overtake them." 6 But she had brought them up to the roof and hid them with the stalks of flax that she had laid in order on the roof. 7 So the men pursued after them on the way to the Jordan ( D ) as far as the fords. And the gate was shut as soon as the pursuers had gone out.
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  dissed

  doublelife

  The guy using Rahab, a non-Isrealite prostitute is trying to justify and excuse lying for everyday JW things.

  True, to save my family from harm, I would lie. But then to lie in everyday matters and use Rahab's example of its okay would be wrong.

  I've heard that the JW's in the ministry now will lie to cover bad impressions people have of them. "Oh, we don't teach that JW's are the only true religion" etc..

  They are making it a practice of lying in the ministry from what I can tell. Frustrated with the Web, do they now feel they have to lie for Jehovah to save people?

  The Bible is clear that lying is wrong.
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  asilentone

  No it is NOT okay to lie to others, it just breeds distrust!!!!!
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  doublelife

  dissed

  You're right. It is wrong. I was using sarcasm. Maybe I should have noted that in my above post. People usually don't understand when I use sarcasm. I guess I'm not doing it right.
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  yknot

  I practiced 'Strategy' exercises three Saturdays a month from 1977-1981

  It isn't lying according to the WTS.....it is merely telling a person what they are ENTITLED to know......