Posts by winstonchurchill

62

My SIL might be 'fishin'....?

by AK - Jeff in

my wife 'faded' during the same time i da'd myself.

we are absolutely both on the same page.. it is interesting [and on another level disturbing] that 'status' plays so heavily in the minds of jw's and their relationships.

as many others have related, my wife sometimes is engaged in conversations with jw's she meets in public, while all those same jw's will totally 'shun' me - sometimes in the same moment.

winstonchurchill

I wonder if this was some sort of effort to trap her into saying something that could be used to DF her.

Maybe. it wouldn't surprise me, since we are intensively trained to put God and the Organization above everything. This kind of situation gives militants the "opportunity to show how loyal they are".

But in most cases this is what happens, almost in every case: Natural human curiosity, that need to know everything, drives JW's to ask, to inquire, to find out... It's only human. The gossipy environment in the congregation fuels that trend; add to that the empty lives most JW's live, and Bang! you have an extremely inquisitive person.

Then the 'training' kicks in: You know something about someone, something big. You have to tell. Other bros and sis, the elders, whatever. They turn it into a matter of "my conscience was bothering me for keeping the secret. Knowing of something and not telling is being an accomplice..." and all that crap.

The end result is the same: Yes, she was fishing, and yes, she would turn in any piece of information she gets.

66

A T T E N T I O N PLEASE

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

i wanted to draw attention as to how a new poster worded the opening to their thread.. .

with renia now gone i feel more confident to tell my story without being belittled.. .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/179341/1/my-story-my-sins-and-their-consequences.

winstonchurchill

1) I was lurker for while, then started posting... never felt threatened by her. Annoyed? YES!, but I don't see why be afraid of her.

2) Excuse me for being in la la land, but what happended? She left? They kicked her out?

54

Is The WTS Getting Desperate for Males? KM Aug 2009

by Hopscotch in

just thought this article was interesting in view of what has been said in the last couple of years on the forum about the declining number of elders and servants and those reaching out.

add to that the large percentage of young teenage boys who leave 'the truth'.

i can't ever remember this much space in a km being devoted to converting men.. para 2 states: "when a family head accepts the truth, he often influences others in the family to join him in pure worship".

winstonchurchill

SHOOT! a 2 pages article for that? Wow! It's worse than I thought.

In our Cong we are 8 elders, and half of them are so old they look brain dead.

3 measly MS (one too old to vene hold a mic)

Two or three baptized teenagers, not up to standards really, definetly no MS material, but its' what we have.

And this is in a spanish speking cong. where growth is suppossed to be bigger!

PS: "Search for Men"; "Contact more men"... that sounds pretty gay to me (Not that there's anything wrong with that)

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

winstonchurchill

The idea that Armageddon would mean horrific torturous fiery death for 99.9% of the world's population came later in Rutherford's tenure - probably prompted by his alcohol-fueled fantasies of revenge on his "enemies".

Sir, I have two words for you: Freddie Franz.

The idea was also convenient as it served to fire-up the rank and file. That kind of leadership needs constant confrontation to thrive. It was war time, and they needed to instill a 'theocratic' warfare spirit into the average JW. Cold War only made it worse (you read WT's from the 50's and they talk about the battle of democracy against evil communism).

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

winstonchurchill

Another thing. The two witness rule is BS because that was part of the mosaic law (which was in force in Judea in the 1st century) and we're not under it.

Under the Law it was necessary to have to witnesses, because punishment often involved death, so you better had back up evidence.

As we were freed from being under that law, there should be no punishment. But since JW's believe being DF'd is a "Spiritual Death Sentence" (Corny, uh?) they think two witnesses are needed, to avoid "condemning to eternal destruction" an innocent on the word of just one witness. And there's where JW (shoud I say 'we'?) are wrong: There's no basis for JCs, investigations, and judgments at all. If someone leaves, just say bye, If someone starts living contrary to Bible's moral principles, confesses and asks for help, then help. But child molestation is a totally different thing: If an innocent child makes an acussation, it should be investigated and turned to authorities. By it's nature, there cannot be a second witness to the crime. Period!

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

winstonchurchill

Olin, You raise aninteresting point, and it made me think about yet another thinh WT gets wrong. The "End", or "Fall" or "destruction" of an entity does not imply that everybody must die.

Roman empire fell: It didn't mean everybody died and vultures came to eat their rotting flesh.
Berlin Wall came down, Communism fell, but there was no widespread dead of all communists.

So from where does the WTS draw the conclusion that when the Bible talks about the destruction of all evil, the end of the current system of things, it means that everybody will die?

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

winstonchurchill

Billy, I totally agree. But this is my point: Islam has called a jihad on America and chants "Death to America". Would the assertive, correct and fair response to that to engage in destroying Islam?

So I said I agree with what Roberto said, but "When you talk about destruction / don't you know that you can count me out" (with regards to Lennon, an anti-religion to the max).

So we can leave, we can expose, we can present the facts, and that will bring liberation to many. But I insist it's a disservice to the 'cause' (if you will) to use such language. Ray has never done that, and I think very few dispute his leadership and command.

Reniaa, you are at a distance; I'm within the organization, as an elder. The policy is flawed and it mostly works to protect the WTS, not the child. You have seen three or four cases? I know of dozens; first hand, no one told me, I've seen it happen.

Now, with your question: "Does the imperfect actions of people invalidate Jehovah and his son Jesus or the bible's words?" You know the anser is no, but you are trying to build a fallacy. An I'll take the timt o tell you why:

A) Imperfect actions is not the same as malicious cover up
B) It does not invalidate God, Jesus and the Bible, but IT DOES invalidate the people misrepresentig them with their "imperfect actions"

66

If there's some good in the Watchtower, why leave it?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

the post about crisis of conscience in which the poster said he knows there's some bad in the watchtower (as brought out in coc), but there's some good in it too got me to wondering about people that stay for the good in it.. the united states makes some decisions as a country that i don't agree with, perhaps even object strongly to.

but i don't disavow my citizenship.

it's mostly a good place to live, so i stay.. if you want to live in a way that utterly conflicts with the watchtower -- homosexual, multiple sex partners, smoking, whatever -- then you have reason to leave.

winstonchurchill

Thanks for your comments, oompa. Let me state this clearly: I WILL NEVER SHUN MY CHILDREN! No way! And yes, it is odd being an elder while feeling as I do. I think it's a 'work in progress', and maybe I harbor the secret hope of 'fading accidentally' just like you did.

Restrangled: Well stated. They way Reveletion is forced to 'fullfill' the WT history is sickening. There's a lot of good, there's a lot of bad. I just put 'organized religion' down there in my priorities.

I have the feeling that rather soon that will cost me my 'privilege' of being an elder. And I think it will be a big relief!

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

winstonchurchill

And work on making it as destructive as possible for the Organization!

While I think I understand what Roberto means, I have to say this was a poor choice of words. One thing Ray Franz is outstanding for is that he has never even hinted a bit of hatred against his former organization. He has exposed the truth, and let's it stand by itself uncovering the falsehood and hypocrisy of the WTS. He has not called for jihad against JW, and to the casual reader the words quoted could sound like that.

I try not to get carried away. Is WTS pedophile policy flawed? Yes, grossly. Can we say the organization is run by "Pedophile lovers"? I think that's an exaggeration.

I'm not taking sides, much less judging, but it makes me uncomfortable when some get carried away and fall into the very same intolerance they criticize.

If you want to leave, leave. If you wanna take it up a notch and denounce what's wrong, good. But 'destructive' is not what I had in mind.

Just a thought.

208

Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions regarding "attention seekers"?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

we all love it when people pay attention to us or our opinions.

but what i am talking about is people who crave and force attention from others.

not just people who talk a lot, but those that force everyone around them to focus on them and them only.. in one of my classes there is a woman who raises her hand to ask a question, but never really has a question to ask.

winstonchurchill

Hi mouthy

I will say this nicely but I do not want prayers like that said for me and my children.

But of course is OK for JW/WT people to pray for all those wicked and ignorant souls out there so they finally find the truth that Satan is hiding by keeping them blind, so they can be saved from imminent destruction!

Condescending B***!