i was talking the other day with a fellow board member about medical emergencies occuring at meetings and how we both agreed that we ( while jw's ) had never seen a meeting stop or be cancelled due to medical emergencies experienced by a fellow jw.
the wt society trains jw' s to lose their authentic human feelings or any empathy towards others physical or emotional sufferings many times.
so many times at meetings , in spite of someone suffering a serious medical emergency it was " the show must go on " type of attitude displayed by congregation elders.. my first experience at seeing a medical emergency at the kingdom hall was an older sister who had an epileptic attack.
I was giving a talk in a hall, when my food poisoning kicked in and I called the bro who introduced me up to the podium, pointed out where I was in the outline and calmly went back in the bathroom and dry heaved my guts out while he finished the talk.
Then my wife drove me home and I slept it off.
Never eat olives on a tray which have gone in and out of the fridge a few times.
One bad olive was all I ate.
maybe i am off base, but it seems that the last year or so hasn't had the standard retoric about how "imminent, close, or soon" the end will be.
it seems as if the focus is now on obeying the governing body.
have you noticed this?.
WTBS - "The Last Days are Numbered!"-(see footnote)
footnote: "Think of the highest number you can think of. Then add one."
it has become very apparent to me very quickly that this forum is dominated by ex-jws.
i have many questions and topics to present but i first want to know who i am presenting these questions and topics to so i have 2 questions that i would like as many of yall to answer as possible.. .
question 1: did you leave the organization out of the blue or were you first disfellowshipped?.
Question 1: Did you leave the organization out of the blue or were you first disfellowshipped?
Out of the blue. I was an elder when I left. Field Service Overseer, School Overseer, elder for 15 years, regular pioneer for 15, MS for ten years. In for 25 years. Wife was a regular pioneer and we never missed the meetings.
Question 2: For the people who left out of the blue, What made you leave the organization? For the people who were disfellowshipped, exactly why were you disfellowshipped? (the more detail about the situation, the better)
Several factors, but the straw that broke the camel's back was an attempt to forcibly subvert my wife's conscience. My wife is more direct and honest than me, but she could never fake it. I'd been trying for the last ten years to reconcile inconsistencies with the blood issue among other things, the unloving representation of Jehovah, the lack of serious commitment on the part of the organization to really preach the word (last time they pulled out the stops was in the 1922-1925 days) and the increasing supplanting of Jesus Christ with the Governing Body. This coupled with some unscriptural rabbincal counsel from the GB in the form of letters to the body of elders making minor uncleaness on the part of the individual major issues leading to the suicides of two young men in my congregation were enough.
Neither my wife or I were DF'ed.
We just left, stopped answering the door or phone and they eventually stopped calling.
Honestly anyone who becomes one of JW's today has only him or herself to blame. Had the internet been available 30 years ago neither of us would have taken the plunge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orrokevgpcm&feature=channel_video_title.
Jaracz knew what he was doing. I've had dealings with Jaracz and he was a bully and as pharisaical as any you might find in a pulpit anywhere.
as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.
frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.
that he is jesus.
I have yet to hear any argument for this particular universe which makes any moral sense to me.
If I were to have designed one it wouldn't include one where life feeds on life.
this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.
i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.
as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.
I'm not an atheist, but I am an agnostic as would be any supposed deity who has half a brain.
It's not logically possible to know what you don't know and what any sentient being can't know is if he/she/it is being hoodwinked in the same manner as the supposed creation.
I will argue that any representation of deity by any religion invariably has an exception clause as regards the questionable morality of its own deity.
i attended the school late last year, and it was an emotional and mental rollercoaster for me.
i was already divided in my heart to say the least.
one of the instructors stayed in my home for the week, and my family genuinely enjoyed his company.
This :
“ Brothers , if the slave asks you to do something that seems wrong in Jehovahs eyes, and you obey, how does that leave you with Jehovah? That’s right, your good with Jehovah. The slave will account to Jehovah for their decisions.”
Versus what Jesus said :
" L ET them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” - Mt. 15:14
and the argument that the FDS is a group taken from an illustration Jesus gave is bollocks...
Ostensibly we were/and should
" Y OU were bought with a price; stop becoming slaves of men." - 1 Cor. 7:23
and ask ourselves whether WE as individuals are "faithful and discreet" from Jehovah's perspective and not according to those who as the apostate man of lawlessness ->FDS " ...became discreet in THEIR own eyes. " - Ro. 12:16 and have supplanted and in anti- or instead-of-christ-like manner have blocked the real way-truth-and-life, Jesus.
according to paul no one can, and no one has to.. god imputes a right and clean standing to anyone who follows jesus instead of the watchtower.. any lgbt who follows jesus is 100% right and 100% clean?
anyone who follows the watchtower is 100% wrong and 100% dirty?
yup!
If there is a God, he's defective compared to the same standards we'd expect of any so-called intelligent creature.
hi everyone.. jack and i decided we would go to his local kingdom hall this morning.
although i have no interest anymore in being a jw, i think its still nice to have regular bible discussions, etc, which can give you something spiritual to think about each week.
i love it and i think its damn good for you.. today, jack and i walked in, a little nervous, but were greeted and welcomed like friends.
Tim, I can appreciate what you said.
On the whole, I despise the controlling aspects of the organization which restricts a person's conscience as well as the failure to allow debate. It's very old-school Catholic in that regard.
The people, on the other hand I found to be pleasant and honest. People who really wanted good things for the world as well as themselves.
I disagree that the bible-twisting was such that it inverted the message.
It's the message of the bible through my study over 25 years led me to conclude that the Bible is revisionist history and points to a being which simply cannot exist in the form described and be the creator of all that is.
The issue of universal sovereignty is a flawed moral concept, poorly executed and played out, the rules of the engagement violated by any number of parties from the beginning.
The lack of an explanation for why as creator would create at all. (actually one is given "love", but that's a logically flawed argument as well and begs the question)
Even if a creator did exist, it calls into question its own morality. To wit ...Since this being could have created Adam and Eve with faux free will such that they imagined they had free will but in point of fact didn't, it could have easily made it such that these imagined they were designed with the capability of performing an evil, but in truth lacked that capability.
The result would have been that they would not have sinned, but they would not have known it was out of their inability, not out of their free choice. Mankind would never have had the need for a savior, there would never have been death disease or the gamut of all evil permutations which have been visited on and by man since the beginning.
Some have said "Oh, but God would have know!"
To which I reply, "So what? It's all about him is it?"
To which the JW would say "Yes."
To which I reply..."And so how is that an act of love?"
To which they never reply.
Of course now considering this, we also don't know that we don't have faux free will now as it is? So we're perpetually incapable of ever knowing with certainty that this creator as described by the Bible isn't simply a highly intelligent, long-lived monster.
If you were to create a universe, would it be a soul-devouring carnivorous zero-sum game universe like this one?
Anyway... It was fun while the effects of the koolaid lasted. Once you become accomodated and put it all together you become a biblically knowledgeable agnostic. (unless you lack the existential awareness to realize that you can't make the ultimate affirmation that an atheist makes)
the witnesses say that if you leave the religion you will become a very vile person.
you will probably get vd.
you will get into drugs and booze, your life will go to hell.. personally, i've been pretty much the same guy although i would now be viewed as a "fornicator".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uPi-OJT0Bo
Way creepier here.
