I think rebel8 is on the right track. The move may eliminate some liability from HQ but not much. As long as the society holds title to the local KHs where the pioneers or publisher work out of and as long as the society publishes guidlines and procedures for the local KH to follow then they will remain a huge target for lawsuits.
thomas15
JoinedPosts by thomas15
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27
Change in Regular Pioneer application process
by Ultimate Reality inthis week a letter is being read that changes the process for the approval of regular pioneers.
in times past you had to fill out an application, submit it to the elder body (who would then add their comments), and it would be forwarded to "the branch" for approval.. this is being changed so that the elder body grants the approval instead of brooklyn or the local branch.
it looks like the lawyers are removing any and all direct contact between the rank-and-file and the gb.
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47
Is DISFELLOWSHIPPING being phased out?
by african GB Member ini have an elder friend who is 'open-minded', so to say...he tells me what gets discussed at elder meetings, even though he does'nt give too much detail.. he says that they were instructed by the society not to hurry df'ing publishers, that they should try to reproof (1 timothy 3: 16,17) a sinner,,..that they should be a little considerate bearingf in mind that we are living in critical times of the end.. .
personally i know a few publishers(baptized or not) who now have children out of wedlock, and they were just "marked" or had privileges taken away..... the reason given is: "they realised that they have sinned, and they are fully repented, they gave enough evidence to jc that they want to be known as jw's".
now my question is : are they slowly doing away with the df'ing doctrine?.
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thomas15
I'm an outsider and probably have no business giving my opinion but I'm going to do it anyway.
Not to hijack this thread, but the general tone of this discussion seems to center around the effect DFing would have on numbers of members. I have heard that the society gets a large precentage of money from literature sales. Since it is using a donation system in the US and since printing hard copy is going the way of the pony express, coupled with hard economic times, where does this leave the society?
Sale of real estate assetts is one thing but in these economic times not as profitable as it might have been. So then there is the idea of putting the squeeze on the membership. Again, the less money a member has the less they are able to give. So, what do I really think you ask?
Well, I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest this but I think the society has to make an appeal to a different demographic in at least the US. To do this they are going to have to make some changes. I don't know if it will be changes in DFing or removing the ban on higher education or what but the society needs to see some Mercedes-Benzes parked in front of their KHs. I don't mean to insult anyone but they may be forced to offer more than the hope of an earthly paradise to attract the six figure check out everything on the internet crowd. They will, in my opinion, look to the Mormons for guidence. They need to become a little more family friendly while still remaining in control, so I think the DFing police will be relaxed at least a little.
And that's what I think.
Tom
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Memorial Rejects Jesus? Maybe Not.
by cameo-d inthe primary role of the holy grail in christian mythology is the cup used by jesus to inaugurate the communion celebration during the last supper.
other stories say that the holy grail was a cup used by joseph of arimathea to catch jesus' blood when he was pierced by a spear during the crucifixion.
often, it's the same cup in both situations.
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thomas15
cameo-d,
In the overall context of the Bible, how does WT theology compare their memorial to the OT history and plan of redemption of the Jews, the Exodus and Passover meal?
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25
wife asked me a good question about control mechanism of DFing.....
by oompa inwhen i told her i would never go back and meetings make me sick, i mentioned how df was a control mechanism meant to keep people in the org.......and that was when i told her i really dont want to be df'd.
i prob should have said it was used to keep people in line....actually should have never told her what i thought df was.......cause the conversation was already bad....... but she asked "why would the gb use it or view it as a "control mechanism?
" what would be their motive?...i have always been taught it is just the bibles way of keeping the cong.
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thomas15
To an outsider who has been reading and studying the Bible for over 30 years it is amazing to me:1. how the WT uses DF procedures to intimidate and 2. why anyone would subject themselves to this kind of abuse. I fully understand that you all are victims, so I mean no offense. But really, wow!
Tom
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Left the WT but why the contuinued faith in an invisible God?
by donny inok, now here's a question for the other side.
when you finally discovered enough information that resulted in your leaving the watchtower bible and tract society's organization, what convinced you that you just needed to replace it with a better more believanle version instead of questioning the whole concept of an invisible god?.
is it that you find the idea of no afterlife to hard to deal with?
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thomas15
Hello donny,
It is good that we live in a society that allows us to make our own choices as to what we believe.
You said above: I applied the same critical tests that I had to the Watchtower and they too did not meet my requirements necessary for me to place a blind faith in their supreme deity aka "the baby".
A question though, if you don't mind me asking is what are your requirements? Maybe if that is known, someone can offer some positive suggestions.
Tom
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Memorial Problem
by InTheSpotlight inlooks like a good place to get info and share ideas.. o.k.
my first question:.
i am a christian.
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thomas15
I agree totally with JeffT.
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A question for Christians on this board.
by loosie indo most christians believe in demons?
or can you believe in gpod w/o believing in demons?.
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thomas15
Speaking for myself, I believe that they exist.
I'm at the conservative/fundamental/evangelical end of things and while we don't dwell on demons, most in my camp believe they exist. It would not surprise me very much if liberal/mainline Christians either don't believe they exist or just don't give it much thought.
When you ask "...believe in God..." I guess it really depends on which God you are talking about. The God of the WT is not the same God of the 66 books of the Bible. The God of Islam again, is not the same God of the Bible and so on.
The victory over death by grace through faith in the shed blood of Jesus gives life over darkness. The darkness is from Satan, light is from our heavenly Father.
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I have a question, do the JW' still believe that....,
by cawshun indo the jw's still believe that they were chosen by jesus as god's one true religion, by what charles russel taught?
do they stand on that or do they feel they were chosen later under rutherford?
if they accept that russel was chosen and rutherford changed things up, wouldn't rutherford be an apostate?.
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thomas15
cawshun,
Never been a JW but I have done a lot of research on this. My advice is not to try for a grand slam, but instead bunt everytime you get up to bat. You will do better I think by taking one small chip out of the rock at one time. I would stay away from questions that cannot be answered from the Bible (that is WT dogma), and don't expect answers. Over a long period of time try to cast doubt into your son-in-law. It is up to him to start researching the accuracy of WT theology, the best you can do is give him a reason to begin his research.
Jeff Gordon is the NASCAR points leader right now. He has not won a single race. In fact, he leads two other drivers that have each won 2 races (Mat Kenseth 10th and Kyle Busch 4th). Gordon is the leader because he finishes in the top 5 consistantly.
Just my opinion.
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If its not the way. Which way is?
by maryacclaim ini read a lot of the topics and subjects in this forum, and can't help but to ask, if the witnesses ideas are not the way, then which way is?.
i was a witness for over 25 years and have been out of the organization for over 3 years now.
yet, i have a hard time seeing anyone else's way as the right way to go.
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thomas15
The answer to your question Mary is found in John Chapter 14- as others have already mentioned.
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How did you feel about attending another church?
by digderidoo inthis question is for those who have attended another church since leaving the jw's.. i have considered attending a local church, firstly out of curiosity and secondly because i do enjoy discussing the bible with people and learning new thoughts on scripture.. the only thing that stops me though is crossing that line.
i guess it was a bit like when i first posted here, it took me ages to pluck up the courage and now what was the big deal?.
did anyone else have this feeling before attending another church, that feeling of crossing the line of no return.
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thomas15
I have never been a JW so as others have said take what I say with a grain of salt but I think I have something to add to this discussion.
About me, I’m what you here would call a “born again”. I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior in 1977. In 1980 I was baptized Presbyterian. From about 1982 till about 1988, I didn’t attend any church and had limited Bible reading. My wife (who was raised in a Catholic family) oddly enough wanted to start going to church and picked a Lutheran Church. We went there for about 3 years, during that time I did a lot of study on the reformation and Luther the man. After about 2 years I was asked to serve as a trustee which I did. Towards the end of our 3 years, I finally realized that the church was too far removed from the teaching of the Bible and Luther. For reference, this church was an ELCA church. There are Lutheran churches that do hold to the historic teachings of Lutheranism, but not the one we went to. We left and looked around for something more Bible based. After many visits about, we settled on a Baptist church.
One thing that makes a Baptist church Baptist is that the local church is autonomous. That means that if you use the Southern Baptist for example, church A may be liberal, church B may be fundamental, church C may be Calvinistic, church D may be Free Will and on and on, all Southern Baptist though. Some of these churches may be heavy into Bible; others may be into keeping rules for life (legalistic). The only way to know is to inquire.
The other thing to know is that there are independent churches that are what is called “Baptistic”. They agree with Baptist doctrine however they do not call themselves Baptist. While I personally consider myself Baptist, I, like a previous poster in this thread (JeffT) attend an Evangelical Free Church. A conservative Baptist would feel very at home in an Evangelical Free Church. Calvary Chapel is also close to this kind of theology but more modern. I do not know much about AOG or the like so I cannot comment.
Then there are the “Mainline Protestant Churches”. These churches IN GENERAL are not as Bible based and are more liberal. The ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) is a good example. American Baptist Churches in the USA is another, but again, some local churches may be more conservative then the majority.
A point I want to make here is this. Even an experienced Baptist/Evangelical/Conservative/Fundamental church goer like myself gets a little weak in the knees when going to a new church for the first time. I know what to expect and I know what I want in a church but still I get nervous. We moved to PA in 2004 and it took 3 years to find a good church home. The main thing though is this (in my opinion), does the local church teach the Bible as the word of God and is Jesus the center of attention?
As I have mentioned in previous threads, it should be OK for the individual church goer to disagree with some points of doctrine. Of course there should be more points of agreement than disagreement, but this is where a study of theology comes in handy. I’m surprised but happy to hear that some of you are looking to find a church post-WT. Being a church goer or member should not be a chore, it should be a time of refreshment and instruction in the Bible, worship and fellowship.