the january 6, 2001 issue of the british medical journal published.
an article detailing recent changes in the watchtower society's blood.
policy.. the article has led to a lively and fascinating discussion of the.
You know, I wonder what would happen if a JW said to two or more witnesses that they were going to have a blood transfusion and yet choose NOT to disassociate themself, as a DA was by choice.
I would love to be a fly on the wall for that discussion and hear about how a the lack of a choice is really a choice.
knorr and the masonic temple.
what went wrong with the masons?.
in 1950 they were in favour with the org but by the 70's they were part of b the g.. who decided and when.. "presidential visit to northern south america".
Hey larc.
Moravians are alive and kicking here in NC, USA. I live close to several families of them.
From what I can tell, they have "multiplied".
I also have several Moravian churches around my community here (2-3 of them).
Judge for yourself. The Moravians that I know sure show their German heretage though! ;)
as one of jehovah's witnesses for many years i was, of course, fully opposed to the idea that the god of the bible was a "triune" god.
for the first couple years after leaving the witnesses i continued to hold strong anti-trinity views.
a few years ago i accepted jesus christ as my personal lord and savior.
Hello again aChristian.
Please note that you are not talking to an active/baptized JW, so you do NOT need to convert me. I was a confused xtian before I almost became a confused JW.
I am talking about logic here.
If you believe in the 'trinity doctrine' then:
Jehovah = Father + Jesus + Holy Spirit
(According to the proof-texts that you guys like to use, exluding the dubious Johnian comma).
My question to you is, knowing that Jesus wanted to see his Father's NAME to be sanctified (don't have the scripture in front of me) how are you going to consider his name holy and praise him when you don't even know his name? I am just curious as to how you bypass/nullify/rectify this logical argument.
I am not arguing old-english rhetoric or deliberate mistranslations (if you want to get into that, then let's talk about all four of the KJV's "hells" )
I am talking about the logistics of a stated position.
Edited by - ianao on 13 March 2001 12:31:17
knorr and the masonic temple.
what went wrong with the masons?.
in 1950 they were in favour with the org but by the 70's they were part of b the g.. who decided and when.. "presidential visit to northern south america".
On the basis of increased Bible knowledge, the man, despite his being a thirty-second degree Mason, severed his connections with the Masonic Lodge and she with the Order of the Eastern Star"
I find it very interesting (if not dubious) that a 32nd deg. traditional mason would sever ties with the masonic lodge due to an 'increase' of Bible knowledge that he should have already had as a 32nd deg. Sounds to me like he just decided to throw away his 'knowledge' for a 'belief-system', either that or the 32nd deg title was a fabrication, or the title 'Mason' was erroneously applied to freemasons.
I destroyed all the Freemason paraphernalia I had, even the suit I used for Lodge meetings.
This one I understand, as "Freemasonry" is the accepted masonry (Bible based) and is more comparable to orthodox protestant churches. Most followers of the accepted order also attend the same churches that other xtians do. Doesn't surprise me that a freemason would give it up, as a freemason is not much different from your standard run-of-the-mill protestant. Would be the same as converting a Moravian to a JW.
Interesting post Ozzie.
as one of jehovah's witnesses for many years i was, of course, fully opposed to the idea that the god of the bible was a "triune" god.
for the first couple years after leaving the witnesses i continued to hold strong anti-trinity views.
a few years ago i accepted jesus christ as my personal lord and savior.
Hello aChristian.
So does this mean that you believe in a holy trinity?
If so, is it your understanding that Jehovah is the name of the 1in3,3in1 triune God?
The only reason that I am asking is that most folks who embrace the trinity give up a bit of their critical thinking skills. (This may be for the better anyway as far as keeping faith in God's promises).
It's my understanding that in the trinity doctrine the name of the triune God is called Jehovah.
Here is a little "formula":
Jehovah = Father + Son + Holy Spirit
My personal problem with that is, that the Son has a name all to himself (to which every knee should bow) known as Jesus. So let's update this formula:
Jehovah = Father + Jesus + Holy Spirit
Jesus was out to have his Father's name sanctified (i.e. for religious use). This "Father" was higher than he was, and he called him his own God as well as everyone else's God.
My problem is, how is Jesus' Father's name going to be sanctified if the name of the triune God is Jehovah. Logically, the Father's name is UNKNOWN, so how could anyone believing in a trinity ever sanctify it?
Granted, you could explain those lapses in logic as a mystery of God, but to me that is indeed a cop out giving you permission in advance to stay ignorant of other scriptures that seem to contradict these notions (as catholic/protestant churches have been doing for a long time now.)
To be honest though, maybe it's best to stay in the clouds of mystery if you really want to put faith in God.
I know from personal experience that if you start picking things apart and using sound logic, you may end up with more than you bargained for.
Edited by - ianao on 13 March 2001 11:36:31
good and evil.
two basic polarities.
would someone care to please define them, and the difference between them?.
Good vs. Evil is a concept derived from a brain capable of abstract thought. i.e. a 'thinking instinct'. (IMO)
Take a look at the Genesis account at the beginning. It goes to great lengths to attempt to explain this situation. i.e. "forbidden fruit" and knowledge of good and evil.
good and evil.
two basic polarities.
would someone care to please define them, and the difference between them?.
Good is when you think of others as well as your self. Evil is when your only thought is self at the expense of others.
I think that's a pretty good definition. The Japanese would agree with you too.
i've heard many people tell me about bible prophesy.
if the bible can predict future events then it stands to reason that those events are predetermined and man has no choices in this world.
think about all the choices you've made in your life and how different life for you would be if you had done things differently.
Logical:
Jehovah is all-knowing and He knew EXACTLY what would happen.
So God KNEW that satan would turn evil given the choice, BEFORE he created him?
YIKES!
i would like to know who is an atheist here and why you like to take part in discussions on this board?.
thanks for your replies.
"God" exists (otherwise we would not be here).
The question is not who is "God", but WHAT is "God", IMO.
good and evil.
two basic polarities.
would someone care to please define them, and the difference between them?.
logical:
Oh ok, that's right. Thanks for that clarification there logical.
Now, since Jesus was not good (even though he was sinless), does this mean that Adam & Eve were bad when created (before they ever sinned)?
If this is so, then were they punished for being the bad people they were created to be, or were they punished for becoming worse than they already were to begin with?
Fascinating. Looks like black and white thinking cannot even apply in the Bible. Interesting.
Either that, or maybe you and I are just taking Jesus' loyalty to his Father a little too literally. *shrug*
