I was already in motion to leave but it sure helped. I was struck by what a gracious and articulate writer he was and how he refrained from name-calling or other bitter rhetoric. As someone who had seen the inner workings of the WT, everything he said resonated with my own experience or research; CofC has, as they say, the "ring of truth." What a contrast with one of the last RC I attended, where on a 13 min. symposium part, the "brother" managed to use a defamatory or abusive term to describe "apostates" an amazing 60+ times!
Cadellin
JoinedPosts by Cadellin
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43
Did Ray Franz Help You To Get Out of “The Truth”?
by minimus ini sneakily read his books at work.
it was written in such a way that no one could accuse him of being another bitter old apostate.. once it registered in my brain, especially after reading the second book, i knew i had to get out!.
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Our daughter was free to make her own choice.
by StephaneLaliberte inwhen eloise dupuis gave birth to her son in 2016, there were complications where a blood transfusion would have saved her live.
however, she refused and died; to the horror of the medical staff and the entire province of quebec.. two years later, there was a change in politics and the topic came back up in the media.
the parents of eloise dupuis, obviously exhausted by the media coverage, wrote a comment to a well known news paper in quebec.
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Cadellin
I think the key difference lies in the effect of two (related) areas: (1) organized behavior; (2) coercion. As another poster said, what the WT does is "organized shunning," a very different thing than someone deciding on their own to avoid someone. Context is key. The WT presents itself as God's organization and, as we all know, uses the name "Jehovah" to indicate where direction is coming from, as in--"We want to do what Jehovah requires," etc. when in actuality, we could substitute WTBTS for "Jehovah" in that previous sentence. This imbues them with the veneer of divine authority and for believers, that is everything. So when publications indicate that parents should not even respond to a text message from a DF'd child, Witnesses understand that as a divine mandate and, what's more, see obedience as part of the "us vs. them" scenario. Consider how different it would be if the Society truly presented it as a conscious matter, offering scenarios where one person might decide to shun a DF'd child but another person continued association, both of which were presented as justifiable based on the individual's conscience. That would change the situation entirely!
Related to this is coercion. As another poster pointed out, if you do an act because a gun is pointed at you, that is not seen as a voluntary act. Under the law, contracts signed under duress are unenforceable. Similarly, disfellowshipping is a tremendous and significant method of coercion, if your entire support system/family is at risk, and so in no way can it be said that Witnesses can freely choose to have or refuse a transfusion. As long as the threat of organized shunning is a real risk, free choice is not available. Choice may be available but it is a coerced choice made under duress (the pointed gun) and so is not free (and therefore true) choice. It is as simple as that.
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Yesterday's WT slip up
by neat blue dog inwhen the israelites left egypt in 1513 b.c.e., they may have numbered more than three million.
spanning three or even four generations.
🤭.
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Cadellin
A crowd of that size would have been impossible for that time frame. Max Roser (whose site is fascinating) estimates the entire world population at around 72 million and notes that growth was very slow, almost nonexistent, for much of human history. If there really WAS such a crowd leaving Egypt, they would have left a significant footprint in the Moab desert. Say, for example, the mortality rate was just 1% (that is a relatively modern mortality rate and likely would have been higher in ancient times but for the sake of argument...). That means 24,000 people died every year, or 2,000 average per month for forty years (not counting the regular mass wipe-outs by the loving God). Evidence of funeral pyres or other burials and remains would be striking, offering undeniable proof of the WT's assertion. Yet, as others have noted, nothing.
Sorry, UA, you are right, we are off your point, which is a good one! Still, this was one of the facts that woke me up to the Bible's errancy/exaggeration and the Society's naivete.
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Why does WT rarely reference creationist scientist?
by Sanchy inin watching the latest video in the series "was it designed?
" at tv-dot-jw-dot-org, i got to wondering why is it that watchtower hardly references scientist that are creationist.
i know its only a minority from that group, but there are enough out there for them to reference from.
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Cadellin
Just watched this. Sidepoint--a woman narrator! Wow. I have never encountered that before, unless it was a narrator for a woman's life story.
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A question for you women; what was it really like for you being in the Org?
by Tallon inhi there folks.. i took a bit of time out from the forum, however i'm back again.. what was it really like for you, your experiences good or bad, etc, in the org?.
if you were granted a listening ear by the gb, what changes would you like to see implemented?.
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Cadellin
So many interesting experiences here! Thank you everyone for sharing. For my part, I remember being super little--like kindergarten age maybe--and not being able to figure out why women couldn't do everything men could do in the organization. That never left me, and as I grew older, I finally told myself that if God is sovereign and made everything, then he had the right to decide who got to be boss. Of course, that never *really* set well with me but I was a super-pious 20-something pioneer, Bethel commuter, ultra flirt and just too busy have a great time socially to really worry about it (and yes, that is totally possible as a young JW, depending on where you are!). It was one of those things that I just shoved to the back of my mind, where it quieted down but later, started jumping around and waving its arms until I couldn't ignore it any longer.
When I finally started thinking about it, the whole idea of man being head and woman being obedient, which never made sense to begin with, just became more and more nonsensical. It made me furious to show up for service on a weekday when it would be me and a handful of incredibly mature sisters, one of which would take the group with a scarf on her head but her 10 year old newly baptized son would have to say the prayer. Looking back on it now, it is is actually laughable, it's so crazy.
What's worse is how it affected me on the job. I'd be in a meeting and notice something or have a good idea but couldn't bring myself to speak up because there was this horrible feeling that one of the men should be the one to say it, or that I would be out of place to bring something to their attention. And then a few minutes later, someone would say the exact same thing I was thinking and be roundly complimented or whatever for their great idea! It's taken me a long time to get over that (which I now have, thank goodness). But the scars are real.
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Here You Go, Folks! - Leah Remini
by sparky1 innational television exposure.............. www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath-season-3-teaser-.
https://ew.com/tv/2018/10/17/leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath-season-3-premiere-.
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Cadellin
Ha! Just about to post the same link. Interesting!
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If you're feeling down ... this might cheer you up
by LoveUniHateExams ina us cop ends up arresting a person who describes themselves as a free inhabitant.
at 4 mins 5 secs: "you're raping me!
... this is rape!
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Cadellin
I have renewed respect for law enforcement. That woman was a nut and he acted with admirable restraint.
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Have you seen this appalling new Caleb and Sophia video??
by stuckinarut2 inthis manipulative new caleb and sophia video has got me so angry!!.
the level of cultiness has just gone to a whole new level!.
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/children/become-jehovahs-friend/videos/make-jehovah-god-happy/.
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Cadellin
I thought they did make it clear that it was a violent video game, via Caleb's fantasy, and I have to say, as a parent, I can get behind that part of the message--way better for young kids to run around playing ball than be hunched over a screen shooting victims. And teaching kids not to cheat, well, no objection there. But it was all wrapped up in what we can easily identify as that particular brand of JW ideology--higher education is bad, even wanting/dreaming about it is bad and oh yeah--thousands of old men with white beards are watching your every move ALL THE TIME.
Yikes.
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2018 JWBroadcasting "Higher education is useless" video CLIP
by Not_Culty insept 2018. https://vimeo.com/288327363.
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Cadellin
Ironically, it is those "disobedient" JWs who actually went to college and have decent jobs who will be providing the spare rooms and menial jobs that those middle-aged ex-Bethelites will depend on.
Ha, yes. My still-in elder husband's cong. is chock-a-block full of good JWs who avoided college and now don't have two pennies to rub together (with one or two exceptions). Every month, they run into the red just paying the most meager of operating expenses. He often comments that we are viewed as "rich" (we aren't) simply because our income is higher, we have health insurance, live in a nice house, etc. Why? Because I left thirteen years ago, got higher education AND a decent job. As an elder, he feels compelled to "top up" the congo shortfalls and it is the height of irony that he only has the freedom to do that b/c of his inactive wife's good job in higher ed!!!
And yes, I do point that out to him. (Sidepoint--makes me ill that even a penny of our household income is going to these bozos, even on the local level, but we have an agreement that we are each free to contribute to personal causes)
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Awesome, Awesome Report! Wait till you see the end of it!
by cha ching inbeccah hendrickson of wgal comes thru again!
a fabulous interview with barbara anderson, all the pieces of the puzzle are coming together!
watch out watchtower!
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Cadellin
Wow--I mean, WOW. Thank you everyone who posted that and especially Barbara for her courage and determination.