Posts by ignored

Nobody can make a prediction but Jehovah. They no longer try to predict the future. Jehovah has his own timeframe. He gave us Math 24:14. "And this good news of the kingdom will be preached throughout all the inhabited earth to all, and then the end will come."

However JanH said:

"Has the Watchtower Society at any time made an accurate prediction of the future?"

Now, Care to actually answer the question this time. A yes or no will do.

Ignored One.

Edited by - ignored_one on 28 July 2002 12:23:59

14

Its about freakin time..............

by SpiceItUp in

jw
friends

.

that mrmoe made emporer!!!!!!!!!

and now for the celebrations..... .

Judicial Hearing-Elders Afraid

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

http://community.webshots.com/photo/44722558/44722772xoorvs

http://community.webshots.com/photo/44722558/44722843mbprwy

http://community.webshots.com/photo/44722558/44723017nebyfw

ignored_one

Hi Bill,

Any chance of some larger scans?

I had trouble seeing the reporter.

Ignored One.

4

CHILD ABUSE_THE REAL TRUTH_PART1

by zev in

notice what the governing body has to say about child abuse in the church.. .

awake!

churchinsuranceagainstabuseclaims.

ignored_one

Regarding their wealth and spreading it around, didn't Amazing bring up some information that said that it didn't matter?

Ignored One.

11

Are you satisfied?

by dmouse in

i have spoken to some jehovahs witnesses who are not aware that i no longer believe in the religion.

there was shock and unhappiness about the panorama program, and concern about what they would have to face in the door-to-door ministry.

those that have been out report no real problems.

ignored_one

Hi,

The general consensus around here is that as Satan can't get to the cong from the outside he's now trying to split it from the inside.

You can't win against Dub reasoning. Do they have an answer for everything?

Ignored One.

Edited to change outside to inside.

Edited by - ignored_one on 22 July 2002 8:18:35

30

They do too go beyond what is written...

by Marilyn in

jw
friends

tdogg started this on another thread.

his comments were:.

i wish i had that quote when i was told i had to wear a tie and suit to meeting, when i played chess, when i bought star wars figures, when i had to do at least 5 hrs of service a month, make a comment at every meeting, not wear top-sider shoes, never see a rated r movie, wear a no-blood bracelet, highlight all the answers in my watchtower, not play organised sports, not salute the flag,....anyone want to take over?......

ignored_one

So going to R rated movies is a real no-no in the US?

They don't seem bothered so much over here about seeing 18 cert films. Most of your R rated films end up as 15 cert films over here anyway.

Ignored One.

12

What Are They Really Saying Now?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

i must confess, i am intrigued as to how panorama has affected the jw's who watched it.

my old pal, mr dub-in-the-pub, just shook his head miserably over his guinness after denying having seen it.

now he wants to borrow the video recording i made.

ignored_one

A post from Worldparadise Yahoogroup.

Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 4:06 am
Subject: Same slander...excellent response
In a program apparently similar to what "Dateline" recently aired in North
America, the BBC (British) program "Panorama" has asked the Society for answers
on a number of questions. Here is the answer from the New York Office of
Public Information for Jehovah's Witnesses.

This is an excellent reply and outlines some scenarios that many of us may not
have considered in the past, as to why the Society does what it does.

Of course, we would not want to watch or participate in any program that
promotes slanderous or false information about the organization, false brothers
or apostasy.

=======================================

File on website is in .pdf format and you will need Adobe Acrobat to read.
Below is a text version.

http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bbc020509.pdf

May 9, 2002

Betsan Powys
BBC Panorama

Dear Ms. Powys:

This is in response to your fax of April 30, 2002, in which you advise us that
BBC- TV is preparing a program on the way Jehovah's Witnesses handle child
abuse matters. You have kindly offered us the opportunity to be interviewed
on-camera; however, we must respectfully decline.

We are not opposed to giving interviews in general however, it is likely that
among those whose views will be expressed on your broadcast will be some
persons who are Jehovah's Witnesses. In our view, it would be neither proper
nor Scriptural for us to place ourselves in what might turn out to be
an adversarial position with our Christian brothers and sisters in a public
setting. (1 Corinthians 6:1-8; Ephesians 4:2) We trust that you will understand
our position in this regard.

Although unable to participate in an interview, we are certainly willing to
comment on the questions that you raised in your fax. We note that these
center almost exclusively on the nature of the records that we keep on alleged
child abusers. You tell us that it is vital that we answer your questions on
our record-keeping procedures because of the "very serious nature of the
allegations made to the programme," although you do not specify what the
allegations are. First of all however, please allow us to comment on the way
that child abuse accusations are handled by Jehovah's Witnesses. We realize
that you did not ask us to touch on this aspect; nevertheless, it is essential
that we comment on it to provide an appropriate, frank answer.

In the United States, when any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act
of child abuse, the local elders are expected to investigate. The procedure is
as follows. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see
what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the
charge, the two elders may arrange for him to have the opportunity to confront
the accuser in their presence. If during that meeting the accused still denies
the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders
cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not?
As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say,
namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or
any sin ...at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the
matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus
reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17.

When the branch office receives an allegation of child abuse, a check of the
records might reveal that similar, uncorroborated allegations were lodged
against the same person in the past, perhaps when he was living in another part
of the country. When a second credible allegation by a different person
is lodged against the same individual the elders are authorized by the
Scriptures to handle the case.

- Page 2 -

However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are
expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses
in their country, if local privacy laws permit. Again, privacy laws permitting,
a record is made at the branch office that the individual has been accused of
child abuse. Each branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses keeps its own records,
if that is allowed by local jurisdiction. In the United States we do not have
records of child abusers who live in other lands. If privacy laws do not allow
such records to be kept, the elders do whatever is permitted within the law to
see to it that children are protected. The aim is to balance the right to
privacy of the individual with the overriding need to protect the safety of
children. -- 1 Timothy 5:19.

In addition to making a report to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses, the
elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated
allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply.
Additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and
it is his or her absolute right to do so. In the United States, reporting
requirements vary from state to state. It can be quite a challenge to keep
abreast of the reporting requirements, but our Legal Department makes every
effort to do so.

If, when confronted, the accused confesses that he is guilty of child abuse,
the elders take appropriate action. If he is not repentant, he will not be
permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentant -- is
cut to the heart, and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in
the future -- what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower
applies. The article said: "For the protection of our children, a man known to
have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the
congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of
Jehovah' s Witnesses] or serve in any other special full-time service." (1
Timothy 3:2, 7- 10) We take such action because we are concerned with
maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children.
Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely,
to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually. -- 2 Corinthians
7:1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4.

In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been
appointed to positions
within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for
decades. All of the
circumstances would need to be considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that
a long time ago a 16- year-old boy had sexual relations with a consenting
15-year-old girl. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdictions where he lived when
this happened, elders are required to report this as an incident
of child abuse. Let us say that twenty years have passed. The child abuse
reporting law may have changed; he may even have married the girl! Both have
been living exemplary lives and they are respected. In such a rare case, the
man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the
congregation.

Our procedures have been refined over time. Our policy over the past several
years has been that at least twenty years must have passed before an individual
who committed an act of child abuse could even be considered for appointment to
a responsible position in the congregation, if ever. The Bible teaches that
individuals can repent of their sins and "turn to God by doing works that befit
repentance," and we accept what the Bible says. (Acts 26:20) Still, the safety
of our children is of the utmost importance, so we realize that the local
elders must be very careful when recommending
individuals who may have been guilty of an act of child abuse in the distant
past.

You have been told that here in the United States we have compiled a list of
23,720 names of child abusers. That is false. First of all, the total number of
names in our records is considerably lower than that.

- Page 3 -

In addition, it is not meaningful to focus on the number of names we have in
our records. This is because our figures include the names of many persons who
have only been accused of child
abuse whereas the charges have not been substantiated. We keep these records to
document our
compliance with what the law requires in many U.S. jurisdictions. Also included
on our list are
allegations made on the basis of so-called "repressed memories," the validity
of which many
authorities challenge. Then there are the names of persons who have been
accused of abusing children before becoming Jehovah's Witnesses as well as
individuals who have never been baptized Witnesses but whose names we are
obliged to keep because of their association with the Witnesses. (An example
of this would be a non-Witness father or step-father who is accused by his
Witness children or step-children of abusing them.) To be safe, we also list
the names of persons who may or may not be considered as child abusers,
depending upon the jurisdiction where they live (for example, that 16-year-old
boy who had sexual relations with the consenting 15-year-old girl). The name of
an individual who was guilty of voyeurism or involved with child pornography,
as further examples, would also be included on the list. And, to be sure, the
list also includes names of persons who are actually guilty of child abuse. We
do not apologize for keeping such records here in the United States. Apart from
being legally needed, they have been very helpful to us in our efforts to
protect the flock from harm. (Isaiah 32:2) Christian parents can rightly feel
secure in the knowledge that such efforts are made to screen out possible child
abusers from appointment to responsible positions within the congregation.

Ms. Powys, please do not conclude that we believe that our system is perfect.
No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong,
Bible-based policy on child abuse. Anyone in a responsible position who is
guilty of child abuse would be removed from his responsibilities without
hesitation. We certainly would not knowingly transfer him to serve elsewhere.

Child abuse is abhorrent to us. Even one abused child is one too many. At east
since 1981, our
journals, The Watchtower and Awake!, have featured articles to educate both
Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and need to protect children
from child abuse. Among others, there was the article "Let Us Abhor What Is
Wicked!" published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower; "Help For
the Victim of Incest" in the October 1, 1983, Watchtower; "Your Child Is in
Danger!", "How Can We Protect Our Children?", and "Prevention in the Home," all
in the October 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as "Child Molesting - Every Mother's
Nightmare" in the January 22, 1985, Awake! Over the years, as we have noted
areas where our policies could be strengthened, we have followed through. We
are continuing to refine them.

We trust that you will find the information in this letter to be helpful. As
you will note, we have responded to the broad issues you raise rather than
providing specific answers to your detailed list of questions. We note that you
sent a similar list of questions to our offices in London. We understand
they are answering your questions in accordance with their procedures and
adherence to British law.

With every good wish, I am,

Very truly yours,

(Signed)
J.R. Brown
Director
Office of Public Information

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Typical ignore the facts response. Did the NOT SEE the elder walk away?

Ignored One.

23

2 New Books at Assembly

by Osarsif in

jw
friends

nuevas publicaciones presentadas en las asambleas de distrito (2 books + 1 tract)

resumen de la asamblea de distrito "celosos proclamadores del reino de dios"

los testigos de jehova vuelven a anterior metodo de estudio biblico

ignored_one

So let me get this right. They're are saying to study the new replacement for the United in Worship Book with new studies after the Knowledge book?

And the new book mentions nothing on the blood issue?

Is this the most obvious sign that they're dropping it?

Thoughts, corrections appreciated.

Ignored One.

12

A Question for My British and Australian Friends

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

.

based on what i've read of your experiences and even heartbreak on this forum, it's obvious that you have more than your share of jw hard-liners in your disparate corners of the world.

please believe me when i say that i intend no criticism whatsoever; but i've often wondered how it is that so many of your compatriots can sell themselves over so utterly to an upstart (125 year-old) apocalyptic american religion as we have done here?

ignored_one

Probably for the same reason McDonalds has done so well.

Personally I can't stand the stuff.

Ignored One.

ignored_one

Posts by ignored_one